Ceebooboo confused AGAIN LOL

[Ceebooboo]

I was reading some things regarding the LDS teaching on " levels " of Heaven.

This is where my confusion is:

If you ( say a woman ) is sealed to your husband and you ( the woman ) lives a very good Mormon life and reaches the highest level of Heaven but your husband falls a little short of the highest level of heaven, then what???

Are you forever seperated from the spouse you were sealed to???

What if the man reached Exaltation ( A God ) and his wife fell short of the highest level?? Would the Man have to find other wives in the highest level to have spirit children with to populate their Earth??

Another question I have: I, as a non LDS believer, can only reach the " middle " level ( right ??). Then will I be with the Mormons who fell a little short??

Another question: The lowest level ( is still heaven, right???) Then there is NO HELL???

All will be in heaven, just different levels??

Not sure if I am making any sense but I am REALLY confused by this teaching.

Any insight or perspective would be appreciated.

Peace,

Ceebooboo ( formely Ceeboo:))

[Just_A_Guy]

I don't think they're "separated" in the sense that they will never, never see each other again. But the man-and-wife relationship will be at an end. If the partner who "made it" wants to receive the blessing of eternal increase (in other words, the ability to create new worlds and create people to live on those worlds, which blessing pertains only to the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom), they will need to find a new spouse.

In principle, it is possible for a non-Mormon to attain a celestial glory (that's the whole point of doing temple work). It would depend, though, on the degree to which the individual made an informed decision to reject the truths taught by Mormonism during their lifetimes. I wouldn't presume to guess how that applies to anyone personally.

Lowest level of heaven is still heaven--but you've got to go through a thousand years of hell to get there. There is an even lower level that is not "heaven" at all (we call it "perdition" or "outer darkness") but relatively few are ever bad enough to wind up there.

Edited March 24, 2009 by Just_A_Guy

[bytor2112]

I was reading some things regarding the LDS teaching on " levels " of Heaven.

We tend to refer to theses levels of heaven as kingdoms of glory.

If you ( say a woman ) is sealed to your husband and you ( the woman ) lives a very good Mormon life and reaches the highest level of Heaven but your husband falls a little short of the highest level of heaven, then what???

Then the woman or worthy spouse that kept his/her covenants will likely be sealed with a new spouse....if they want to continue to exaltation.

Are you forever seperated from the spouse you were sealed to???

What if the man reached Exaltation ( A God ) and his wife fell short of the highest level?? Would the Man have to find other wives in the highest level to have spirit children with to populate their Earth??

Exaltation is to have eternal increase,it is to live the kind of life that God lives, to attain his attributes. In order to attain exaltation, we must enter into the New and Everlasting Covenant of marriage and keep our covenants in order for that covenant to be in effect.

A

nother question I have: I, as a non LDS believer, can only reach the " middle " level ( right ??). Then will I be with the Mormons who fell a little short??

Wrong. All humankind...everyone who has ever lived or will ever live will have the opportunity to hear and accept the Gospel, whether in this world or in the world of spirits. That is why we do Temple work for our deceased ancestors....

Another question: The lowest level ( is still heaven, right???) Then there is NO HELL???

All will be in heaven, just different levels??

Yes, it is a kingdom of a glory....but that is the end of your increase. Hell is a different subject.

[hordak]

"God has fulfilled His promises to us, and our prospects are grand and glorious. Yes, in the next life we will have our wives, and our sons and daughters. If we do not get them all at once, we will have them some time…. You that are mourning about your children straying away will have your sons and your daughters. If you succeed in passing through these trials and afflictions…you will, by the power of the priesthood, work and labor, as the Son of God has, until you get all your sons and daughters in the path of exaltation and glory. This is just as sure as that the sun rose this morning over yonder mountains. Therefore, mourn not because all your sons and daughters do not follow in the path that you have marked out to them, or give heed to your counsels. Inasmuch as we succeed in securing eternal glory, and stand as saviors, and as kings and priests to our God, we will save our posterity." [2] -- Lorenzo Snow

This seems to indicate that they will be together. There a quite a few talks that say kids born in the covent, or sealed in the covent will be together no matter what (barring the unpardonable sin) but this was the only thing i could find on spouses.

[Madriglace]

If you ( say a woman ) is sealed to your husband and you ( the woman ) lives a very good Mormon life and reaches the highest level of Heaven but your husband falls a little short of the highest level of heaven, then what???

This is one of the great aspects of the Plan ... somone like me who is single and likely to remain single through no fault of their own and who works hard to do all that is asked ... we will be taken care of ... we have been promised that we will not be left out. There will be worthy Priesthood holders who's wives have not made the grade so to speak. If I do my part the Lord does His ... to paraphrase a favorite scripture "i the Lord am bound when you do what I say .. when ye do not what I say ye have no promise."

Another question: The lowest level ( is still heaven, right???) Then there is NO HELL???

All will be in heaven, just different levels??

QUOTE]

To me anything below the highest degree would be hell because I would know that I didn't makle it because of what I did.

[rameumptom]

D&C 76 teaches that beings in higher heavens can visit those in lower kingdoms. However, their relationship would be "different" since one could not experience a full relationship in a lower kingdom.

The wife would have the right and opportunity to select a celestial husband for a new fullness relationship, if she chooses. She would also be allowed to continue a loving relationship with any family and friends that are in the lower kingdoms.

[Dravin]

For the record you can reach the Celestial Kingdom single, and even stay there that way, you just wouldn't be exalted (aka would have obtained the highest glory of the Celestial Kingdom).

[Ceebooboo]

Thank you all for the replys :)

I must say I remain very confused But do indeed appreciate the time and effort on my behalf :)

So the " sealings " that ya'll do arent really " sealed " rather a " maybe " if and when both parties live a good Mormon life, no????

Some seem to indicate to me that " Yes, the man and wife WILL be together forever " and others seem to indicate " NO, they will be able to choose NEW spouses for eternity "??

Thanks again for the replys :)

Ceebooboo

[Guest Alana]

So from what I understand, lowest level of 'heaven' being full of murders and liars and whore mongers (love that phrase). Then there is outer darkness. Outer darkness would be like hell? Not that the Telestial Kingdom sounds all that great.

[Dravin]

Sealing is a covenant, a covenant is a promise between man and God. God says if you do X I'll do Y. So Husband and Wife covenant with God (not each other) to do X if they don't God does not do Y, in this case Y is being Husband and Wife for all eternity.

[Faded]

Thank you all for the replys :)

I must say I remain very confused But do indeed appreciate the time and effort on my behalf :)

So the " sealings " that ya'll do arent really " sealed " rather a " maybe " if and when both parties live a good Mormon life, no????

Some seem to indicate to me that " Yes, the man and wife WILL be together forever " and others seem to indicate " NO, they will be able to choose NEW spouses for eternity "??

Thanks again for the replys :)

Ceebooboo

Underlying thing: God will sort out the messy details. We trust that God is perfectly merciful and perfectly just.

A temple wedding is sealed in the sense that, "Whatsoever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven ..." It is by exactly THAT authority that a marriage in the temple is sealed. As such, breaking that connection is no light thing. The truth of the matter is that:

a.) We should not expect to turn our backs on the Lord, walk away from our covenants with Him and expect to receive the full eternal reward promised to us.

b.) What the Lord does with that person is between the person and the Lord.

c.) It is impossible to receive the fullest reward of eternal life and exaltation without a spouse.

d.) Most of the rest is speculation, we don't have 100% certainty on how the Lord will take care of it.

So it's not much different than any Christian's idea of Heaven: The faithful will receive rewards beyond their comprehension. The Lord will take care of the details. We don't need to worry so much about it.

[Madriglace]

So from what I understand, lowest level of 'heaven' being full of murders and liars and whore mongers (love that phrase). Then there is outer darkness. Outer darkness would be like hell? Not that the Telestial Kingdom sounds all that great.

Someone once said ... can't rmember who ... that if we could see the Telestial Kingdom we would do anything to get there.

[lilered]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceebooboo

Thank you all for the replys

I must say I remain very confused But do indeed appreciate the time and effort on my behalf

So the " sealings " that ya'll do arent really " sealed " rather a " maybe " if and when both parties live a good Mormon life, no????

Some seem to indicate to me that " Yes, the man and wife WILL be together forever " and others seem to indicate " NO, they will be able to choose NEW spouses for eternity "??

Thanks again for the replys Ceebooboo (End Quote)

Ceebooboo: I am a convert and it took me a little bit of deep thinking to understand this teaching.

What helped me is :

Remember important to the LDS Faith is the family unit.

Heavenly Father has provided three different places for people to live after they are resurrected. These places are referred to as kingdoms of glory in heaven. Representative of these are the star, moon, and sun.

• The telestial kingdom is the lowest kingdom. It has a glory compared to the brightness of the stars. (See D&C 76:81.)

• The terrestrial kingdom is the middle kingdom. It has a glory compared to the brightness of the moon. (See D&C 76:71.)

• The celestial kingdom is the highest kingdom. It has a glory compared to the brightness of the sun. (See D&C 76:70.)

[Just_A_Guy]

So the " sealings " that ya'll do arent really " sealed " rather a " maybe " if and when both parties live a good Mormon life, no????

Right--the sealing is contingent on the faithfulness of the parents (who are parties to the covenant). It is not contingent on the faithfulness of the children (who are beneficiaries of, but not parties to, that covenant). I would disagree with Hordak's reading of Lorenzo Snow's teaching--President Snow mentions only errant children, not errant wives or husbands.

For the children, the sealing ordinance guarantees two things (assuming the parents keep their covenants):

• Salvation (but not necessarily exaltation) for each child. In other words, Jesus will admit them to one of the levels of heaven--but not necessarily the highest one.
• The children will, in some sense, "belong" to the parents. Again, this doesn't necessarily guarantee that they will be perpetually in close physical proximity to each other--though "visitation" is presumably an option.

Some seem to indicate to me that " Yes, the man and wife WILL be together forever " and others seem to indicate " NO, they will be able to choose NEW spouses for eternity "??

They can enjoy each other's company whenever the spouse in the higher kingdom wishes it to be so. But they will not be married.

Also, the entire point of reaching the highest level of heaven ("exaltation") is to be allowed to create new worlds and create new people to live on those worlds. That work takes a male and a female, working together. If, between a married couple, the wife is exalted and the husband is not; the wife cannot enter into that work alone and the husband will not be privileged to participate. So, if she wants the blessing of "eternal increase", she'll have to find another man.

Edited March 24, 2009 by Just_A_Guy

[Ceebooboo]

Hi Just A Guy, :)

Thanks so much for sharing your perspective with me.

I say the following with enormous respect and ONLY as a mere thought ( NOTHING ELSE )

Do LDS folks wonder how we non LDS people digest or recieve all this info ???

Anyway, thanks for your contributions here :)

Peace,

Ceebooboo

[Moksha]

Another question I have: I, as a non LDS believer, can only reach the " middle " level ( right ??). Then will I be with the Mormons who fell a little short??

The comforting thing here is that most of the great Thai, Indian, French and Italian chefs will be there too, so the Great Dinner will be yummy. Your dinner companions will include great artists and scientists. You and the missus sit next to Leo Tolstoy - he will have a lot to say before the keynote of the evening....

[Just_A_Guy]

Do LDS folks wonder how we non LDS people digest or recieve all this info ???

Only when we're in the middle of explaining it to a non-Mormon, and they look at us like we're absolutely nuts.

The comforting thing here is that most of the great Thai, Indian, French and Italian chefs will be there too, so the Great Dinner will be yummy. Your dinner companions will include great artists and scientists. You and the missus sit next to Leo Tolstoy - he will have a lot to say before the keynote of the evening....

What's that old saying . . . you go to Heaven for the weather, and Hell for the company.

[Ceebooboo]

The comforting thing here is that most of the great Thai, Indian, French and Italian chefs will be there too, so the Great Dinner will be yummy. Your dinner companions will include great artists and scientists. You and the missus sit next to Leo Tolstoy - he will have a lot to say before the keynote of the evening....

Indeed Moksha ( Good to see you on the boards :))

And do not forget Mother Theresa, Polycarp, Ignatious, ( to name a few ) will be in the lower level as well.:)

[Moksha]

... Polycarp ...:)

Polycarp??? So there is good fishing too!

[Ceebooboo]

Polycarp??? So there is good fishing too!

Thanks for sharing the wit :)

I was nervous that you wouldn't touch any word starting in " poly "

[Moksha]

I was nervous that you wouldn't touch any word starting in " poly "

Are you kidding? We Mormons have always had a thing for polygamy.

[Dravin]

Do LDS folks wonder how we non LDS people digest or recieve all this info ???

Anyway, thanks for your contributions here :)

Peace,

Ceebooboo

Well the internet is a little different then face to face, more reactions to gauge from and the like. Also knowing the person helps a lot, you know what level they are coming from, and the internet no matter the subject you do tend to get dumped on.

[blusun7]

I just want to say something here

Level of heavens is made so god can be just.Thats my opinion. I dont think you nor i can know the full details to the plan.Only leaders of the church that God whats to know will know but only the prophet can let us know as a whole.

Dont be confused. There is nothing to confuse about. Paul says there are bodies celestial,bodies terrestial and there glory is different. Meaning that depending on the life you live you ll get one or the other but I think wants us to strive for the best so he only lets us know how to reach the highest,but if we dont then he has a place to put us that is under what he expected of us.He is bound by his own laws.

Regarding Marriage a very important thing is your not only sealed but what seals you is by the proper authority called the Melchizadek Priesthood.You are sealed. Just like Jesus said to Paul"i will give you keys to the kingdom that what you seal on earth you may seal in heaven"Now that has passed onto to Joseph smith by three anges. Elijah is one but i forget the others and they said it would not be taken away from the earth again. Neither the aaronic priesthood.

So i think you trying to want to understand you are creating your own confusion therefore creating doubt. At one point you ll have to have faith that the lord will answer you but how can he help you if you don't believe in his gospel.Not all things will be made known to you.

Just like Joseph Smith. Alot of thinks werent made known to him till he was baptized and recieved the confirmation of the holy ghost then both priesthoods. Over a period of time. An angel told him to baptize Himself and Oliver cowdrey then confirm the holy ghost upon eachother. Only because two wondered if baptism was a true ordinance which other churches preached it was not. Just faith in christ is all needed. So the two decided to pray to the lord and ask. Well then they recieved an answer.Ehich i just stated.

Its not like he was chosen and poof he was a prophet but what im saying is your trying to understand something but like god says he has an order. I would assume so are learning things. I say this.

Say you are in the 2nd grade. You think you know more so you want to learn alegbra. But you cant learn it cause the arithmic is confusing but you dont know it cause havent learn how proper procedures and other arithmic to put together to solve the problem. So you go back cause you know you have to learn the arithmic of other levels in order to achieve the proper solution in algebra.

Yes we take shortcuts cause we think we know better,but by doing so we miss simple learning and just make things harder for ourselve later.

I think it is the same way with learning the gospel.

[Ceebooboo]

I just want to say something here

Level of heavens is made so god can be just.Thats my opinion. I dont think you nor i can know the full details to the plan.Only leaders of the church that God whats to know will know but only the prophet can let us know as a whole.

Dont be confused. There is nothing to confuse about. Paul says there are bodies celestial,bodies terrestial and there glory is different. Meaning that depending on the life you live you ll get one or the other but I think wants us to strive for the best so he only lets us know how to reach the highest,but if we dont then he has a place to put us that is under what he expected of us.He is bound by his own laws.

Regarding Marriage a very important thing is your not only sealed but what seals you is by the proper authority called the Melchizadek Priesthood.You are sealed. Just like Jesus said to Paul"i will give you keys to the kingdom that what you seal on earth you may seal in heaven"Now that has passed onto to Joseph smith by three anges. Elijah is one but i forget the others and they said it would not be taken away from the earth again. Neither the aaronic priesthood.

So i think you trying to want to understand you are creating your own confusion therefore creating doubt. At one point you ll have to have faith that the lord will answer you but how can he help you if you don't believe in his gospel.Not all things will be made known to you.

Just like Joseph Smith. Alot of thinks werent made known to him till he was baptized and recieved the confirmation of the holy ghost then both priesthoods. Over a period of time. An angel told him to baptize Himself and Oliver cowdrey then confirm the holy ghost upon eachother. Only because two wondered if baptism was a true ordinance which other churches preached it was not. Just faith in christ is all needed. So the two decided to pray to the lord and ask. Well then they recieved an answer.Ehich i just stated.

Its not like he was chosen and poof he was a prophet but what im saying is your trying to understand something but like god says he has an order. I would assume so are learning things. I say this.

Say you are in the 2nd grade. You think you know more so you want to learn alegbra. But you cant learn it cause the arithmic is confusing but you dont know it cause havent learn how proper procedures and other arithmic to put together to solve the problem. So you go back cause you know you have to learn the arithmic of other levels in order to achieve the proper solution in algebra.

Yes we take shortcuts cause we think we know better,but by doing so we miss simple learning and just make things harder for ourselve later.

I think it is the same way with learning the gospel.

Hi Blusun7,

Thanks for the reply.:)

To be transparent ( sorry if I was not ) I am not LDS. The reason for my starting this thread was NOT to question the validity of the teaching ( That is not my purpose ), it was to try and gain perspective of what LDS teaches from LDS members in regards to the " levels " of heaven that is taught.

At any rate, I do appreciate your contribution and I also admire your " energy " for your faith.:)

Peace,

Ceebooboo

[john doe]

And do not forget Mother Theresa, Polycarp, Ignatious, ( to name a few ) will be in the lower level as well.:)

Not necessarily. What makes you think they won't accept the fullness of the gospel in the hereafter? I wouldn't be surprised to see some popes there too.