Prayer....

[huma17]

I'm sure that some of you will feel that I deserve what ever comes my way, because I'm not the most tactful person that has ever graced this board...

Well, I apologize for that.

All I have to say, is that I no longer believe in the power of prayer!!

The Lord has abandoned me for far too long, and I don't think that I respect that.

I have been a true admonisher of the Gospel my whole life, but I don't find it in my personal life anymore.

Take that as you will, but I do not want to follow a Savior that will abandon me so freely.

Yes, he went through so much - but remember, that was HIS choice!! It was required that someone be the Savior of this (these) worlds, but don't forget that there had to be SOMEONE willing to do such!! If there wasn't, then we would still be waiting for someone to step forward.

Don't think that our Heavenly Father was so foolish to think that if the Lord did not step forward, that he would have had to rely on Lucifer to perform the act of Savior. He knew full well that Lucifer would not have been sufficient to fulfill the Plan of Salvation in the matter in which it needed to be.

So, if the Lord had not stepped forward, then our Father would have had to have done something else.

Why the Lord feels that he can abandon us with such regard is now beyond me!!

[Amillia]

We aren't the boss of God, nor his judge.

I look at all the suffering going on these days, like children who were left orphaned from the Tsumaoni and then after that trauma, being kidnapped and put into sexual slavery for the rest of their lives, and I can't see that the wickedness of men can be curbed by God without him taking away agency.

Do you understand agency? accountability? If God stopped all the wrongs, like that girl who was kidnapped and murdered just last week, then the whole purpose of this earth would be destroyed.

You are too close to your pain and need some counselling.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by huma17@Feb 7 2005, 09:00 PM

I'm sure that some of you will feel that I deserve what ever comes my way, because I'm not the most tactful person that has ever graced this board...

Well, I apologize for that.

All I have to say, is that I no longer believe in the power of prayer!!

The Lord has abandoned me for far too long, and I don't think that I respect that.

I have been a true admonisher of the Gospel my whole life, but I don't find it in my personal life anymore.

Take that as you will, but I do not want to follow a Savior that will abandon me so freely.

Yes, he went through so much - but remember, that was HIS choice!! It was required that someone be the Savior of this (these) worlds, but don't forget that there had to be SOMEONE willing to do such!! If there wasn't, then we would still be waiting for someone to step forward.

Don't think that our Heavenly Father was so foolish to think that if the Lord did not step forward, that he would have had to rely on Lucifer to perform the act of Savior. He knew full well that Lucifer would not have been sufficient to fulfill the Plan of Salvation in the matter in which it needed to be.

So, if the Lord had not stepped forward, then our Father would have had to have done something else.

Why the Lord feels that he can abandon us with such regard is now beyond me!!

I can feel some of the pain that you are enduring through your posts. I am sorry that you are in pain and that you are feeling so alone. I wished that I had the answers for you but I don't. I do know that in my life, prayers have not always given me the things that I desire, but I have felt more love from my Father in Heaven. When you cut off prayer you sever the lines of communication with Him...

[pushka]

Huma17...am I the only one who is reading this properly? Didn't you say it was A JOKE???? therefore I read it as such, and didn't think you were going thru any traumas (unless you've mentioned them elsewhere)...I thought it was quite a witty joke, so

Please correct me if I have misinterpreted the post...and if so, I hope you feel better soon too :)

[Traveler]

Originally posted by huma17@Feb 7 2005, 08:00 PM

I'm sure that some of you will feel that I deserve what ever comes my way, because I'm not the most tactful person that has ever graced this board...

Well, I apologize for that.

All I have to say, is that I no longer believe in the power of prayer!!

The Lord has abandoned me for far too long, and I don't think that I respect that.

I have been a true admonisher of the Gospel my whole life, but I don't find it in my personal life anymore.

Take that as you will, but I do not want to follow a Savior that will abandon me so freely.

Yes, he went through so much - but remember, that was HIS choice!! It was required that someone be the Savior of this (these) worlds, but don't forget that there had to be SOMEONE willing to do such!! If there wasn't, then we would still be waiting for someone to step forward.

Don't think that our Heavenly Father was so foolish to think that if the Lord did not step forward, that he would have had to rely on Lucifer to perform the act of Savior. He knew full well that Lucifer would not have been sufficient to fulfill the Plan of Salvation in the matter in which it needed to be.

So, if the Lord had not stepped forward, then our Father would have had to have done something else.

Why the Lord feels that he can abandon us with such regard is now beyond me!!

The first step toward G-d and righteousness is sacrifice.

The first step toward Satan and evil is self-indulgence.

Have you considered the possibility that it is you and your prayers that has abandoned G-d?

The Traveler

[Blessed]

huma,

The only thing I can share is that we can never understand fully the perspective of God.

Some things we just have to accept.

It is what it is.

[Amillia]

This story doesn't quite cover it, but it has some good thoughts.

Hurt

====

This story changed my life and I thought maybe it could change

others too, so I'm sharing it with you.

This story was told to me by my sister, whom it happened to.

She was really upset, she hadn't seen or spoken to her best

friend Jim in a couple of weeks, and he shows up at her door and

commands her to get dressed and go riding with him. So she

finally does.

As they were riding, they passed a garden full of flowers.

Jim says "Do you see those flowers?"

"Yes," she says.

"Do you think that when someone steps on those flowers that they

lie there and feel sorry for themselves?" Jim says.

"No."

"No, they immediately start to mend their wounds so they can

heal, and grow strong and healthy!"

They ride a little further and Jim points up in a tree,

"You see those squirrels up there?

Do you think that when people shoot at them they go hide

forever?"

"No," she says.

About that time the ocean comes into sight.

Jim says "You see that ocean out there?

Do you think that when there's a hurricane out there that the

ocean doesn't go back out because it's afraid to face the

storm?"

"No," she says.

"Then, why have you stopped living because you have been hurt?"

That story really hit me like a ton of bricks!

The worst part was the fact that Jim died a short time later.

And that's when she realized how much precious time she wasted.

Why have you stopped living because you have been hurt?

[Amillia]

Here is another one.

Judged Not Worthy

==================

A voyaging ship was wrecked during a storm at sea and only two

survivors were able to make it to the shore of a small deserted

island. With no idea what else to do they agreed they had no

recourse but to pray to God. However, they were divided as to

whose prayer would be more effectual. They agreed finally to

divide the island between them and stay each to his own side of

the island.

The first thing they prayed for was food. The next morning, the

first man saw a fruit-bearing tree on his side of the island,

and thus he ate. The other man's parcel of the island remained

barren, and thus he remained hungry.

After a couple of days the first man became lonely so he prayed

for a wife. The next day another ship wrecked and the lone

survivor, a woman swam to his side of the island. The other man

remained without a companion.

Next, the first man prayed for a house, clothes and more food.

The next day all of these miraculously appeared. However the

other man still had nothing.

Finally the first man prayed for rescue for he and his wife.

In the morning there was a ship docked on his side of the

island. He and his wife boarded the ship and left the other man

behind. As the ship was pulling away from the island a voice

from heaven boomed out,

"Why are you leaving that other man on the island?"

The man replied, "Well, Lord, I figured the blessings I prayed

for were mine, and since apparently none of his prayers were

answered he mustn't be worthy."

The Lord rebuked him saying, "Oh my son you are so mistaken, for

you see he only had one prayer, which I answered fully. If not

for that you would not have received the richness of blessings

that you have, you owe him everything."

"Tell me", the man asked, "what did he pray for that I should

give him anything?"

The Lord replied,

"He prayed that all of your prayers would be answered."

~Author Unknown~

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by huma17@Feb 7 2005, 08:00 PM

I'm sure that some of you will feel that I deserve what ever comes my way, because I'm not the most tactful person that has ever graced this board...

None of us "deserve" what comes our way--the good or the bad. Whatever happens to us is the result of living in an imperfect world. Prayer is a way of adjusting our own attitude to meet the challenges and blessings that will inevitably come our way in spite of anything we may or may not do. Prayer doesn't change God's mind. It changes ours.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by curvette@Feb 8 2005, 11:24 AM

None of us "deserve" what comes our way--the good or the bad. Whatever happens to us is the result of living in an imperfect world. Prayer is a way of adjusting our own attitude to meet the challenges and blessings that will inevitably come our way in spite of anything we may or may not do. Prayer doesn't change God's mind. It changes ours.

Curvette,

Did you author that? It is very poetic. :)

[Amillia]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 8 2005, 11:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 8 2005, 11:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--huma17@Feb 7 2005, 08:00 PM

I'm sure that some of you will feel that I deserve what ever comes my way, because I'm not the most tactful person that has ever graced this board...

None of us "deserve" what comes our way--the good or the bad. Whatever happens to us is the result of living in an imperfect world. Prayer is a way of adjusting our own attitude to meet the challenges and blessings that will inevitably come our way in spite of anything we may or may not do. Prayer doesn't change God's mind. It changes ours.

I agree to some degree, but not totally.

We do have to change our hearts and minds to meet God's inorder to understand what is blessings. All things work for the good of those who love God. Even bad things give us experience which we can use to help others and ourselves.

Some who have had horrible challenges seem to find a calling in life through it and make a success of out of it. It is the when given lemons, make lemonade out of it, kind of thing.

When we draw near to God, he draws near to us. Rebellion and anger do not draw us nearer to God. So changing our hearts and minds to be nearer to God gets us the answers.

Joseph Smith's revelation found in 121 of the Doctrine and Copvenants is one of those kinds of payoffs for suffering. It is magnificant in so many ways.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Feb 8 2005, 10:37 AM

Curvette,

Did you author that? It is very poetic. :)

Really? Thanks. (yes--Gospel of Curv 1:17)

[Traveler]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 8 2005, 10:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 8 2005, 10:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--huma17@Feb 7 2005, 08:00 PM

I'm sure that some of you will feel that I deserve what ever comes my way, because I'm not the most tactful person that has ever graced this board...

None of us "deserve" what comes our way--the good or the bad. Whatever happens to us is the result of living in an imperfect world. Prayer is a way of adjusting our own attitude to meet the challenges and blessings that will inevitably come our way in spite of anything we may or may not do. Prayer doesn't change God's mind. It changes ours.

Very good - I like your post better than mine. :)

The Traveler

[pushka]

Huma17, I feel I owe an apology to you and the others who have posted in this thread...I thought you were saying that the post was a joke, obviously upon looking more closely I can see that you are saying that prayer is a joke, and are giving your reasons for feeling that way. I cannot help you in this matter as I don't pray...But I wish you all the best in resolving whatever problems you are having...in whatever way you find most helpful... :)

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Traveler+Feb 8 2005, 01:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Traveler @ Feb 8 2005, 01:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -curvette@Feb 8 2005, 10:24 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--huma17@Feb 7 2005, 08:00 PM

I'm sure that some of you will feel that I deserve what ever comes my way, because I'm not the most tactful person that has ever graced this board...

None of us "deserve" what comes our way--the good or the bad. Whatever happens to us is the result of living in an imperfect world. Prayer is a way of adjusting our own attitude to meet the challenges and blessings that will inevitably come our way in spite of anything we may or may not do. Prayer doesn't change God's mind. It changes ours.

Very good - I like your post better than mine. :)

The Traveler

I don't know, I put them both "on file". :)

If it's okay I would like to expand of Curvettes post about prayer. I like what she said but in retrospect, is she saying that an earnest prayer doesn't really change an outcome? We live in an imperfect world so things happen, so good and some bad. If we want to talk with our Father In Heaven, through prayer, about adjusting a possible outcome we have no power? I am not so sure I "want" to believe that. What about a child who is lost and afraid and prays for comfort? This is a principal that I have been taught since early in my childhood. Is the principal of prayer as we know it wrong?

I know that there are several here who have said that they do not pray. I have silently wondered if it is because they believe that prayers have no effect, or they no one is there to listen.

[huma17]

Originally posted by Amillia@Feb 8 2005, 12:34 AM

You are too close to your pain and need some counselling.

I was a bit unclear last night about what was going on, and for that, I apologize. I was not questioning why the Lord lets things happen, or why he doesn't hear the crys of those who suffer, because I DO understand about free agency - that's the whole reason we are here.

Nothing catastrophic, or traumatic has happened to me, leading to feel that the Lord has abandoned me. If I was being tortured, I would want the Lord to answer my prayer so that I knew he was aware and/or with me. When the Savior prayed in the Garden, the Father did not take away his pain, but he still answered him.

I am frustrated with not getting answers - not matter what they are. I'm not looking for a certain answer, or expecting to get what I want. I am sincerely asking the Lord for answers to important aspects of my life, and don't get anything. I have felt left alone to make decisions on my own. Yes, I know that the Lord cannot/will not make decisions for us, that we must do what we can first. But, we have been counseled to inquired of the Lord - to seek his guidance in the decisions we make. I want to know why I should, if he doesn't answer?

I am not in pain over something that requires counseling - we all go through pain everday - I just cannot rely on prayer anymore (at least I feel such), and it bothers me.

[Jenda]

Maybe you are just not recognizing the answers. What type of prayers are you praying? What are you asking for?

[huma17]

Originally posted by Jenda@Feb 8 2005, 02:20 PM

Maybe you are just not recognizing the answers. What type of prayers are you praying? What are you asking for?

Maybe I'm not, but I used to, quite easily. The prayers I'm praying our for answers to specific questions - those that require advice from the Lord. Those aren't the only prayers that I pray, but those are the ones I'm talking about, because I don't get answers, when I really need them - and they are supposed to be answered by the Lord, for we have been counseled to seek the Lord in these matters.

[Jenda]

Where are you looking for the answers?

[Amillia]

Originally posted by huma17+Feb 8 2005, 01:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (huma17 @ Feb 8 2005, 01:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 8 2005, 12:34 AM

You are too close to your pain and need some counselling.

I was a bit unclear last night about what was going on, and for that, I apologize. I was not questioning why the Lord lets things happen, or why he doesn't hear the crys of those who suffer, because I DO understand about free agency - that's the whole reason we are here.

Nothing catastrophic, or traumatic has happened to me, leading to feel that the Lord has abandoned me. If I was being tortured, I would want the Lord to answer my prayer so that I knew he was aware and/or with me. When the Savior prayed in the Garden, the Father did not take away his pain, but he still answered him.

I am frustrated with not getting answers - not matter what they are. I'm not looking for a certain answer, or expecting to get what I want. I am sincerely asking the Lord for answers to important aspects of my life, and don't get anything. I have felt left alone to make decisions on my own. Yes, I know that the Lord cannot/will not make decisions for us, that we must do what we can first. But, we have been counseled to inquired of the Lord - to seek his guidance in the decisions we make. I want to know why I should, if he doesn't answer?

I am not in pain over something that requires counseling - we all go through pain everday - I just cannot rely on prayer anymore (at least I feel such), and it bothers me.

Somethings just aren't to be answered in the way you want them. Have you tried reading the scriptures for answers, searching principles to lead you through? When something has already been given you as counsel, through scriptures, talks by leaders...and you haven't taken it, will you get more?

What exactly are you seeking counsel about and maybe we can lead you to the scripture or principle that will answer your need? Maybe your answer from the Lord is US?

[huma17]

Originally posted by Jenda@Feb 8 2005, 03:10 PM

Where are you looking for the answers?

Anywhere I can get them - the same places as before. In my mind, as clear thoughts - not confused - from the still small voice, scripture, burning of the bossom, or an empty, cold feeling, through fast, whatever.

[huma17]

Originally posted by Amillia@Feb 8 2005, 03:33 PM

What exactly are you seeking counsel about and maybe we can lead you to the scripture or principle that will answer your need? Maybe your answer from the Lord is US?

I don't think that the answers I'm looking for can come from you guys, nor from the scriptures. Such questions as the best time/person to marry for oneself, which would be the best school/career to attend to, if I'm on the right direction for temperal matters (not necessarily spiritual, because those could be answered by many), etc.

[Jenda]

I hope that you are not looking for a timetable kind of answer. I think that God leaves some of those things up to us.

[huma17]

Originally posted by Jenda@Feb 8 2005, 05:25 PM

I hope that you are not looking for a timetable kind of answer. I think that God leaves some of those things up to us.

No, I understand that the Lord does not work when we want, or when we think is right. I know that the Lord knows best, and you have to have faith that it will work out, and that the answer will adventually come. But, some things cannot wait - they are a 'need an answer now' type, and if the answer doesn't come, we are left to make tough choices on our own. I have had to deal with that for some time now, and I am wondering why should I bother anymore.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields@Feb 8 2005, 12:35 PM

If we want to talk with our Father In Heaven, through prayer, about adjusting a possible outcome we have no power?

We always have power. But our power only extends to what we do with our own attitude and actions, not to what God wills. I don't know about adjusting a possible outcome, and I don't know how miracles happen through faith. But I'm not talking about those things--just average, everyday prayer. :)