Three Democrats meet with Castro

[bytor2112]

Excerpt:

Rush said he found the 77-year-old Raul Castro "to be just the opposite of what is being portrayed in the media."

"I think that what really surprised me, but also endeared me to him, was his keen sense of humor, his sense of history and his basic human qualities," Rush said.

[Maxel]

Another excerpt:

The CBC members conceded there were limited discussions about human rights abuses in Cuba.

"We didn't talk about it much," said Rep. Marcia Fudge, D-Ohio. "You don't go into someone's house and insult them."

Isn't Castro a former dictator and a plain ol' bad man? I'm confused. Maybe I'm one of those kids that need to go sit in the corner...

And maybe this is another case of people calling evil good. I'd be interested to hear what other (more knowledgeable) people have to say about this.

[FunkyTown]

Another excerpt:

Isn't Castro a former dictator and a plain ol' bad man? I'm confused. Maybe I'm one of those kids that need to go sit in the corner...

And maybe this is another case of people calling evil good. I'd be interested to hear what other (more knowledgeable) people have to say about this.

The question on the table wasn't "Is Raul Castro a bad man?" or even "Was Fidel Castro a bad man?"

The question on the table was placed forward as to what the policy toward Cuba would be. Frankly, I think it's about time to lift the constraints on trade with the country. I can guarantee, regardless of what you think of the Castros, that they are not the ones suffering under the embargo. It's the people underneath them.

[Palerider]

When you first read the title of the thread....you might think its the starting line of a joke.....:):)

[Hemidakota]

Another excerpt:

And maybe this is another case of people calling evil good.

Exactly....

[Hemidakota]

"For the past 50 years, the United States has been swimming in the Caribbean Sea of delusion," said Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, D-Mo., who described the United States as "the isolated nation" compared to European countries which have diplomatic ties with Havana.

"This is the dawning of a new day," Rep. Bobby Rush, D-Ill., declared. "Fifty years of foolishness is over. It's time for the children to sit in the corner and the adults to take over."

Dawning of what new day? Then I read, they are both ministers. It is wondrous moment how some are voted into office.

You first need to put forth effort in there own country with free elections vice dictatorship. Oh! Hold on...that means they have to be commoner and have to support themselves, after they return that what belongs to country's.

[hordak]

The question on the table wasn't "Is Raul Castro a bad man?" or even "Was Fidel Castro a bad man?"

The question on the table was placed forward as to what the policy toward Cuba would be. Frankly, I think it's about time to lift the constraints on trade with the country. I can guarantee, regardless of what you think of the Castros, that they are not the ones suffering under the embargo. It's the people underneath them.

It like that old saying you catch more bees with honey (or something to that effect). I think "exporting" capitalism to Cuba would be more effective then the embargo.

[LittleWyvern]

As much as I think the Democrats may be a bit too eager here, I like this way better than the Republican's "I'm not talking to you at all" strategy.

[Dravin]

I'm curious during the height of the cold war did we have an embargo against Russia? Seems to me the a good way to combat communism is to flood them with our decadent western goods particularly any culture we could get over there.

I am not a PoliSci major however.

Edi: Aww, beaten to it.

[Just_A_Guy]

I'm curious during the height of the cold war did we have an embargo against Russia? Seems to me the a good way to combat communism is to flood them with our decadent western goods particularly any culture we could get over there.

I am not a PoliSci major however.

Edi: Aww, beaten to it.

Well, we need to define "combating" communism. The approach you outline seems to be more or less what we've been doing with China. It lessens the risk they pose to us, but (to my knowledge) it hasn't really changed the way the Chinese government deals with its own people.

[Dravin]

I thought there has been significant economic changes over the past several decades. The point is taken however, we won't nuke you != We're gonna hole democratic elections next spring.

[Maxel]

The question on the table wasn't "Is Raul Castro a bad man?" or even "Was Fidel Castro a bad man?"

The question on the table was placed forward as to what the policy toward Cuba would be. Frankly, I think it's about time to lift the constraints on trade with the country. I can guarantee, regardless of what you think of the Castros, that they are not the ones suffering under the embargo. It's the people underneath them.

I have no opinion about whether the embargo should be lifted or not (I can't tell you any details about it, so how could I have an opinion?).

My comment was meant to reflect on the idea that the human rights violations are basically so much water under the bridge- and what that says about the people who let those violations float on down the stream. Perhaps I should have posted these other relevant quotes from the article.

"This is the dawning of a new day," Rep. Bobby Rush, D-Ill., declared. "Fifty years of foolishness is over. It's time for the children to sit in the corner and the adults to take over."

...

Rush indicated that it was time for Washington to remove Cuba from the list of terrorist nations. Rush dismissed Cuba as a security threat to the United States. He said that when he was a member of the Black Panthers in the 1960s, former FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover warned that his organization as "the number one threat to national security.

"So I know foolhardy approaches and asinine labels when I see them, " said Rush. "American people need to be told the truth and they have been lied to for too long about the threat from Cuba."

Of the seven direct quotations from the representatives, 3 are about how deluded America is concerning Cuba. That may or may not be true, but the attitude and wording which these people state that 'fact' is troublesome (to say the least).

Moreover, 6 of the 7 delegates are from the Congressional Black Caucus- nothing wrong with that, but Fidel Castro's claim that they said America was still "racist" in the meeting disconcerts me. The delegates' claims that such was not said doesn't ease me at all.

The big 'showstopper' for me is the following:

Both Rep. Rush, an ordained Baptist minister, and Rep. Cleaver, a Methodist pastor, delivered sermons at churches while in Cuba.

Is it common practice for congressional delegates to deliver religious sermons while on diplomatic missions such as this? Why on earth would they deliver sermons? These two representatives are also the two who most brashly and uncharitably described America's mass delusion concerning Cuba (again, whether or not America has actually been duped is beside the point- for me, it's about how it was said).

Everything about this makes me feel not at ease. Whether the embargo should be lifted or not is, in my opinion, almost an entirely different issue than the fact that these delegates seem willing to brush past atrocities under the rug for... whatever reason. I don't trust them, and I don't trust their motives.

[FunkyTown]

I have no opinion about whether the embargo should be lifted or not (I can't tell you any details about it, so how could I have an opinion?).

My comment was meant to reflect on the idea that the human rights violations are basically so much water under the bridge- and what that says about the people who let those violations float on down the stream. Perhaps I should have posted these other relevant quotes from the article.

Of the seven direct quotations from the representatives, 3 are about how deluded America is concerning Cuba. That may or may not be true, but the attitude and wording which these people state that 'fact' is troublesome (to say the least).

Moreover, 6 of the 7 delegates are from the Congressional Black Caucus- nothing wrong with that, but Fidel Castro's claim that they said America was still "racist" in the meeting disconcerts me. The delegates' claims that such was not said doesn't ease me at all.

The big 'showstopper' for me is the following:

Is it common practice for congressional delegates to deliver religious sermons while on diplomatic missions such as this? Why on earth would they deliver sermons? These two representatives are also the two who most brashly and uncharitably described America's mass delusion concerning Cuba (again, whether or not America has actually been duped is beside the point- for me, it's about how it was said).

Everything about this makes me feel not at ease. Whether the embargo should be lifted or not is, in my opinion, almost an entirely different issue than the fact that these delegates seem willing to brush past atrocities under the rug for... whatever reason. I don't trust them, and I don't trust their motives.

You do raise a good point, Maxel. One has to look at the motives of speakers to determine what their bias is in order to get a good feel for what's really happening. Sadly, this news was reported by Fox News, which has such a conservative bias(Two years after the invasion of Iraq, 80% of Fox News watchers believed there had been proof of Al Qaeda links to Saddam Hussein, weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq or that the world supported the US going in to Iraq as per Misperceptions, the Media and the Iraq War - World Public Opinion ).

Now, on the other hand, we can look to a newspaper which is believed to have a more liberal bias and look to the New York Times. According to -this- article:

query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0F1FFE34591B728DDDAE0994D9405B838CF1D3

there seems to be some belief that the Democrats might be doing this for the wrong reasons. This definitely gives you a right to be concerned when a Democrat leaning newspaper places criticism down on it. This isn't proof positive, since the Times are certainly not as terrible as Fox News, but they do lean left and it's an indicator.

The question, then, is whether or not human rights violations are being soft-soaped to push an anti-Republican agenda. I think it's safe to say that yes, that definitely plays in to it. The question then becomes: Does that mean we should keep up the embargo on Cuba? A lot of people are suffering with that embargo. Should something be done about the human rights violations? What can be done on the international stage?

You raise good points and I think you're right to be concerned, but ultimately I think this had to happen. Unfortunately, the people who went are the ones who are least likely to be thinking straight and dealing with this in an effective manner.

[talisyn]

Just think of all the doctors we'd get if the embargo was lifted!