Need A Little Help

[pushka]

Lol, this is getting so funny...time to bring on Jerry Springer methinks!!!

JERRY...JERRY...JERRY...JERRY...

[Cal]

Originally posted by Amillia+Mar 9 2005, 09:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Mar 9 2005, 09:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Maureen@Mar 9 2005, 04:15 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Mar 8 2005, 11:10 PM

It is interesting to note that all of JS great works are totally ignored by those who find fault their only truths. :)

Amillia - I've noticed you make a lot of general statements without any substance to back it up. So for something more positive here's a chance for you to show me (or all the board) what those great works of JS's are. I am just curious as to what your opinion might be in regards to these great works. I have no intention of disagreeing with your opinion, I'm just wondering if you can actually add some substance to your general statement of great works.

To help you out, some definitions of GREAT are:

*Remarkable or outstanding in magnitude, degree, or extent: a great crisis.

*Of outstanding significance or importance: a great work of art.

*Powerful; influential: one of the great nations of the West

*Eminent; distinguished: a great leader.

Please and Thank you and Good Luck!

M.

Receiving of revelations, which are totally profound such as are found in the D&C.

Translating the BofM through the Spiritual Gift from God.

Living through endless torment, and persecution and staying true.

Just for starters. BTW I really don't want to answer your posts.

Maureen--that will teach you to challenge Amillia!

[Cal]

Originally posted by Amillia+Mar 4 2005, 02:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Mar 4 2005, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Maureen@Mar 4 2005, 01:41 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Mar 4 2005, 11:23 AM

...One was abused at church and quit, got bitter and let it grow into a full blown apostasy. It wasn't the gospel at first that bothered him....

I just re-read Mr. Tolworthy's reasons for leaving and I wouldn't characterize the catalyst for leaving as 'abuse' - I would say he had a request from his church, the church chose not to respect his request therefore he had no choice but to stick up for himself and end the relationship.

I knew the mr. tolworthy during the months prior to his leaving the church. We had several indepth discussions, and emailed for a while; but maybe you know him better than I do~

Don't know him personally at all but I tend to believe his reasons than hear-say from others.

Why do I think these authors are anti? LOL well I have read their stuff and it certainly isn't pro.

Really? Are your reasons because you don't like what you are reading or because you think they are lying - or maybe something else all together? - please share.

M.

1st....I don't care what tolworthy put out for the world to read, it isn't the whole story. Seldom do disaffected saints tell it like it really is.

2nd....I don't care who you chose to believe. I know what I know.

3rd.....I have read all of it before from different sources and one can put the same information in a positive light or they can use it to try and discredit the church. These used it to discredit the church.

4th.....with all your getting ~ get understanding. This seems to always be lacking in the anti-approach to anything.

One question, Amillia--Do you think it is possible for a person to leave the church for any reason, OTHER THAN, personal sinfulness?

For example--it is possible a person could find that the history of the church as they were taught it at first, turns out not to be the same as the history as discovered by objective historical research?

Could a person be totally morally clean, clear headed, kind to dogs and children, and still find the church to be something other than what the missionaries/parents/ ss teachers taught him it was? And that, feeling deceived and misled, he chose to reexamine the church, and found that, had he known BEFORE he was baptized, these things, he would not have joined. And thereby then decides to leave.

Is that possible?

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Cal+Mar 13 2005, 02:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Mar 13 2005, 02:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Amillia@Mar 4 2005, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by -Maureen@Mar 4 2005, 01:41 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Mar 4 2005, 11:23 AM

...One was abused at church and quit, got bitter and let it grow into a full blown apostasy. It wasn't the gospel at first that bothered him....

I just re-read Mr. Tolworthy's reasons for leaving and I wouldn't characterize the catalyst for leaving as 'abuse' - I would say he had a request from his church, the church chose not to respect his request therefore he had no choice but to stick up for himself and end the relationship.

I knew the mr. tolworthy during the months prior to his leaving the church. We had several indepth discussions, and emailed for a while; but maybe you know him better than I do~

Don't know him personally at all but I tend to believe his reasons than hear-say from others.

Why do I think these authors are anti? LOL well I have read their stuff and it certainly isn't pro.

Really? Are your reasons because you don't like what you are reading or because you think they are lying - or maybe something else all together? - please share.

M.

1st....I don't care what tolworthy put out for the world to read, it isn't the whole story. Seldom do disaffected saints tell it like it really is.

2nd....I don't care who you chose to believe. I know what I know.

3rd.....I have read all of it before from different sources and one can put the same information in a positive light or they can use it to try and discredit the church. These used it to discredit the church.

4th.....with all your getting ~ get understanding. This seems to always be lacking in the anti-approach to anything.

One question, Amillia--Do you think it is possible for a person to leave the church for any reason, OTHER THAN, personal sinfulness?

For example--it is possible a person could find that the history of the church as they were taught it at first, turns out not to be the same as the history as discovered by objective historical research?

Could a person be totally morally clean, clear headed, kind to dogs and children, and still find the church to be something other than what the missionaries/parents/ ss teachers taught him it was? And that, feeling deceived and misled, he chose to reexamine the church, and found that, had he known BEFORE he was baptized, these things, he would not have joined. And thereby then decides to leave.

Is that possible?

No.

because they would be living close to the Spirit and the Spirit would give them understanding beyond the written word.

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Amillia+Mar 13 2005, 11:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Amillia @ Mar 13 2005, 11:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Cal@Mar 13 2005, 02:34 PM

One question, Amillia--Do you think it is possible for a person to leave the church for any reason, OTHER THAN, personal sinfulness?

For example--it is possible a person could find that the history of the church as they were taught it at first, turns out not to be the same as the history as discovered by objective historical research?

Could a person be totally morally clean, clear headed, kind to dogs and children, and still find the church to be something other than what the missionaries/parents/ ss teachers taught him it was? And that, feeling deceived and misled, he chose to reexamine the church, and found that, had he known BEFORE he was baptized, these things, he would not have joined. And thereby then decides to leave.

Is that possible?

No.

because they would be living close to the Spirit and the Spirit would give them understanding beyond the written word.

I know the question was given to you, Amillia, but I really disagree with your answer. I don't think that we can categorize everyone who has left the church into one catagory.

I have talked to people who left the church stating the exact same things Cal stated.

One told me that he was following the promptings of the Holy Ghost, I told him, that he wasn't hearing the promptings of the Holy Ghost, but the promptings of the adversary.

Another told me he was "confused" and upset feeling misguided.

And these were two morally clean, clear headed, kind to children kind of people who don't know each other at all

Also my son, used the words misled, and deceived just last week as we were discussing the church.

[Fatboy]

Originally posted by Cal+Mar 13 2005, 02:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Mar 13 2005, 02:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Amillia@Mar 4 2005, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by -Maureen@Mar 4 2005, 01:41 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Mar 4 2005, 11:23 AM

...One was abused at church and quit, got bitter and let it grow into a full blown apostasy. It wasn't the gospel at first that bothered him....

I just re-read Mr. Tolworthy's reasons for leaving and I wouldn't characterize the catalyst for leaving as 'abuse' - I would say he had a request from his church, the church chose not to respect his request therefore he had no choice but to stick up for himself and end the relationship.

I knew the mr. tolworthy during the months prior to his leaving the church. We had several indepth discussions, and emailed for a while; but maybe you know him better than I do~

Don't know him personally at all but I tend to believe his reasons than hear-say from others.

Why do I think these authors are anti? LOL well I have read their stuff and it certainly isn't pro.

Really? Are your reasons because you don't like what you are reading or because you think they are lying - or maybe something else all together? - please share.

M.

1st....I don't care what tolworthy put out for the world to read, it isn't the whole story. Seldom do disaffected saints tell it like it really is.

2nd....I don't care who you chose to believe. I know what I know.

3rd.....I have read all of it before from different sources and one can put the same information in a positive light or they can use it to try and discredit the church. These used it to discredit the church.

4th.....with all your getting ~ get understanding. This seems to always be lacking in the anti-approach to anything.

One question, Amillia--Do you think it is possible for a person to leave the church for any reason, OTHER THAN, personal sinfulness?

For example--it is possible a person could find that the history of the church as they were taught it at first, turns out not to be the same as the history as discovered by objective historical research?

Could a person be totally morally clean, clear headed, kind to dogs and children, and still find the church to be something other than what the missionaries/parents/ ss teachers taught him it was? And that, feeling deceived and misled, he chose to reexamine the church, and found that, had he known BEFORE he was baptized, these things, he would not have joined. And thereby then decides to leave.

Is that possible?

I have known people who left the church because they dwelt on what they perceived as true history or partial history and could not accept that Joseph Smith or other church leader made mistake. Good grief, some people leave when one prophet dies and another is called.

[Fatboy]

In order for the church to decieve a person, that would mean that Pres. Hinckley knows the church is a fraud. Do you believe that at 94 near the end of his life, that he would continue to say the church was true, and that he was a prophet it was not. What gain would he have in it? That would mean that the rest of the apostles know that the church is false. Do you believe that they would leave their jobs, or retirements to work in the service of God to build his kingdom if they did not believe in it? This would also mean that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and the rest of the prophets knew it was false. After all they had gone through, do you think they believed it was false?

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by Fatboy@Mar 14 2005, 01:39 AM

In order for the church to decieve a person, that would mean that Pres. Hinckley knows the church is a fraud. Do you believe that at 94 near the end of his life, that he would continue to say the church was true, and that he was a prophet it was not. What gain would he have in it? That would mean that the rest of the apostles know that the church is false. Do you believe that they would leave their jobs, or retirements to work in the service of God to build his kingdom if they did not believe in it? This would also mean that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and the rest of the prophets knew it was false. After all they had gone through, do you think they believed it was false?

Fair question. I think it would be very likely that Church leaders would be willing to make the sacrifices that their callings require if they actually believed the Church were false.

On the other hand, how likely is it that a person who's spent his entire life in the service of a cause would be willing to question it?

[Amillia]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck+Mar 14 2005, 11:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheProudDuck @ Mar 14 2005, 11:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Fatboy@Mar 14 2005, 01:39 AM

In order for the church to decieve a person, that would mean that Pres. Hinckley knows the church is a fraud. Do you believe that at 94 near the end of his life, that he would continue to say the church was true, and that he was a  prophet it was not. What gain would he have in it? That would mean that the rest of the apostles know that the church is false. Do you believe that they would leave their jobs, or retirements to work in the service of God to build his kingdom if they did not believe in it? This would also mean that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and the rest of the prophets knew it was false. After all they had gone through, do you think they believed it was false?

Fair question. I think it would be very likely that Church leaders would be willing to make the sacrifices that their callings require if they actually believed the Church were false.

On the other hand, how likely is it that a person who's spent his entire life in the service of a cause would be willing to question it?

I think those who leave are deceived. As I stated above, if one is not asking the Lord for guidance and humbly so, which most who are researching the supposed wrong doings of historical leaders, are not humbly searching ~and they don't have the Spirit telling them what is true and false about those historical figures and they aren't asking with humble submissive hearts whether what was done back then has any significance for those of today. They are just 'confused', angry, and disgruntled because they rush to the judgment that they have been deceived.

Also, why would anyone stay in a position just because they had been there forever, if they knew it was all a fraud.

I have read everything written which is anti- and I can tell you that every single time I read a report of 'supposed evil' the Spirit gave me understanding of how that event actually came about and why such and such was done.

I can't say I have always been on this road of Spiritual enlightenment. When my family was treated badly, I found lots of things which fed my already angry spirit, and I rebelled. In my rebellion, I searched out all of the Tanner stuff and the other well known's stuff and eagerly ate it up and used it as proof that the church was false and the Brethren were knowingly trying to used me and deceive me.

It wasn't until I repented of my own rebellion, and told the Lord I was willing to do whatever he wanted, even if it meant going back among people who had abused me, that I started to again receive the Spirit and find peace ~ and true understanding.

I have been on both side of this thing and I can tell you honestly that the more you submit to the church and the leaders in total humility, and over look faults, the more my own sins were forgiven and the greater spiritual understanding and acceptence I received.

It is a narrow road. Few there be that find it.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Also, why would anyone stay in a position just because they had been there forever, if they knew it was all a fraud.

Nobody rational, certainly. But you're setting the bar too high. What about a person who doesn't know for certain whether or not the Church is true, but comes to suspect that it might not be? I suggest that a person who's invested a lifetime of time and resources in the Church might suppress questions or doubts that occurred to him -- not because he was necessarily faithful, but because he would not even want to consider whether he'd spent his life in a mistake. I know people like this.

[Fatboy]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Mar 14 2005, 01:36 PM

Also, why would anyone stay in a position just because they had been there forever, if they knew it was all a fraud.

Nobody rational, certainly. But you're setting the bar too high. What about a person who doesn't know for certain whether or not the Church is true, but comes to suspect that it might not be? I suggest that a person who's invested a lifetime of time and resources in the Church might suppress questions or doubts that occurred to him -- not because he was necessarily faithful, but because he would not even want to consider whether he'd spent his life in a mistake. I know people like this.

FB: The form of doubt in something can be very subtle. It is rare that a person who begins to question the own faith does so from one large event. And there may be some who doubt the church and but not see anything better. Good grief there is a website called New mormons or something like that. They sit around and belly ache. It is quite sad. Some have left others just want to vent there feelings. I use to try and answer some of their questions, but rarely did they ever answer back. None liked what I had to say. Now proud, I believe that the LDS church is a restoration of the ancient church Christ stared, not because of being a member, but because I asked God for the truth and God revealed to me the truth. I can not deny this. If I did, I would be mocking God. There are leaders of the church who commit themselves to the service of the Lord, to build what they believe is his kingdom on earth. Because you do not have the same experience with the LDS church does not invalidate it.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by Fatboy+Mar 14 2005, 01:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Fatboy @ Mar 14 2005, 01:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--TheProudDuck@Mar 14 2005, 01:36 PM

Also, why would anyone stay in a position just because they had been there forever, if they knew it was all a fraud.

Nobody rational, certainly. But you're setting the bar too high. What about a person who doesn't know for certain whether or not the Church is true, but comes to suspect that it might not be? I suggest that a person who's invested a lifetime of time and resources in the Church might suppress questions or doubts that occurred to him -- not because he was necessarily faithful, but because he would not even want to consider whether he'd spent his life in a mistake. I know people like this.

FB: The form of doubt in something can be very subtle. It is rare that a person who begins to question the own faith does so from one large event. And there may be some who doubt the church and but not see anything better. Good grief there is a website called New mormons or something like that. They sit around and belly ache. It is quite sad. Some have left others just want to vent there feelings. I use to try and answer some of their questions, but rarely did they ever answer back. None liked what I had to say. Now proud, I believe that the LDS church is a restoration of the ancient church Christ stared, not because of being a member, but because I asked God for the truth and God revealed to me the truth. I can not deny this. If I did, I would be mocking God. There are leaders of the church who commit themselves to the service of the Lord, to build what they believe is his kingdom on earth. Because you do not have the same experience with the LDS church does not invalidate it.

Because you do not have the same experience with the LDS church does not invalidate it.

No, of course not. And I have no place to question your experience of a confirmation that the LDS Church is the one true Church. I have to admit I have not myself had such a confirming experience, despite a lifetime of asking, seeking, pondering, studying, obeying, experimenting, etc. I have my own reasons for believing.

Just as I can't know what your spiritual experiences are, I can't know for certain what experiences lead others to believe or not -- including the Brethren. It may be that at least some of them have not had unmistakeable spiritual witnesses of the Church's truth -- I know that this is possible, even among faithful Church members, and it's not impossible that such a person, more conscientious and organized than I, might well rise very high in the Church's organization.

If that person were convinced, late in life, that the Church were not true, would he be strong enough to act on his conviction? Or would he rationalize it away?

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Mar 14 2005, 12:36 PM

I suggest that a person who's invested a lifetime of time and resources in the Church might suppress questions or doubts that occurred to him -- not because he was necessarily faithful, but because he would not even want to consider whether he'd spent his life in a mistake. I know people like this.

Oh yes. My current Bishop is very much like this. He's a highly intelligent, wonderful, faithful man. Recently, when he was teaching a combined RS/PH class, he played the devil's advocate and supposed, just for a moment that the Book of Mormon was not true. I can't even remember the lesson he was trying to teach because I was so surprised to see him literally shaking as he pondered the ramifications of the mere thought.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck+Mar 14 2005, 02:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheProudDuck @ Mar 14 2005, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Fatboy@Mar 14 2005, 01:21 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--TheProudDuck@Mar 14 2005, 01:36 PM

Also, why would anyone stay in a position just because they had been there forever, if they knew it was all a fraud.

Nobody rational, certainly. But you're setting the bar too high. What about a person who doesn't know for certain whether or not the Church is true, but comes to suspect that it might not be? I suggest that a person who's invested a lifetime of time and resources in the Church might suppress questions or doubts that occurred to him -- not because he was necessarily faithful, but because he would not even want to consider whether he'd spent his life in a mistake. I know people like this.

FB: The form of doubt in something can be very subtle. It is rare that a person who begins to question the own faith does so from one large event. And there may be some who doubt the church and but not see anything better. Good grief there is a website called New mormons or something like that. They sit around and belly ache. It is quite sad. Some have left others just want to vent there feelings. I use to try and answer some of their questions, but rarely did they ever answer back. None liked what I had to say. Now proud, I believe that the LDS church is a restoration of the ancient church Christ stared, not because of being a member, but because I asked God for the truth and God revealed to me the truth. I can not deny this. If I did, I would be mocking God. There are leaders of the church who commit themselves to the service of the Lord, to build what they believe is his kingdom on earth. Because you do not have the same experience with the LDS church does not invalidate it.

Because you do not have the same experience with the LDS church does not invalidate it.

No, of course not. And I have no place to question your experience of a confirmation that the LDS Church is the one true Church. I have to admit I have not myself had such a confirming experience, despite a lifetime of asking, seeking, pondering, studying, obeying, experimenting, etc. I have my own reasons for believing.

Just as I can't know what your spiritual experiences are, I can't know for certain what experiences lead others to believe or not -- including the Brethren. It may be that at least some of them have not had unmistakeable spiritual witnesses of the Church's truth -- I know that this is possible, even among faithful Church members, and it's not impossible that such a person, more conscientious and organized than I, might well rise very high in the Church's organization.

If that person were convinced, late in life, that the Church were not true, would he be strong enough to act on his conviction? Or would he rationalize it away?

Well if this person was dedicated first and foremost to the Lord and carried His Spirit around with him wherever he went, there would never be a time when he came to the conclusion that the church was false.

So I see no problem.

[pushka]

You appear to be living a very blinkered life Amillia...but as long as you are happy, then that is all that matters...do not deny others the opportunity to open their eyes and read...and ponder...and pray...whether what they read is true, and still decide to leave the Church if they believe it is no longer what they once thought it was...without being judged as not being dedicated fully to the Lord.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by pushka@Mar 15 2005, 05:38 PM

You appear to be living a very blinkered life Amillia...but as long as you are happy, then that is all that matters...do not deny others the opportunity to open their eyes and read...and ponder...and pray...whether what they read is true, and still decide to leave the Church if they believe it is no longer what they once thought it was...without being judged as not being dedicated fully to the Lord.

How can I deny anyone anything? ~am I all powerful? LOL

I am just telling you that if you study things out with the Spirit of submission and humility, you won't get lost ~ as I have seen many do.

[pushka]

I'm sorry Amillia, I didn't mean that you were preventing anybody from leaving the church, I was referring more to the assumption that everybody who leaves the church for the reasons given, after pondering and praying as to whether they have correct information or not, is not fully dedicated to the Lord...

[Jason]

Well if this person was dedicated first and foremost to the Lord and carried His Spirit around with him wherever he went, there would never be a time when he came to the conclusion that the church was false.

I swear before God almighty that I have always put HIS will in religous matters before my own.

You are wrong Amillia.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by pushka@Mar 18 2005, 03:23 AM

I'm sorry Amillia, I didn't mean that you were preventing anybody from leaving the church, I was referring more to the assumption that everybody who leaves the church for the reasons given, after pondering and praying as to whether they have correct information or not, is not fully dedicated to the Lord...

Well from my experience, I have to say ~ they are in the dark and have been blinded ~ but there is always the final day when the only one who can tell them anything will tell them everything ~

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Mar 18 2005, 11:35 AM

Well if this person was dedicated first and foremost to the Lord and carried His Spirit around with him wherever he went, there would never be a time when he came to the conclusion that the church was false.

I swear before God almighty that I have always put HIS will in religous matters before my own.

You are wrong Amillia.

No I'm not. But you won't be able to know that for a while.

[Jason]

No I'm not.  But you won't be able to know that for a while.

Wow. Isaiah's "wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight" comes to mind...

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Mar 18 2005, 09:21 PM

No I'm not.  But you won't be able to know that for a while.

Wow. Isaiah's "wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight" comes to mind...

Yeah, interesting how scriptures fit when you want them to. But I am not wise in my own mind ~ I learned everything I know the hard way. Not very wise ~ but once I got it, I got it good.

[Jason]

Yeah, interesting how scriptures fit when you want them to. But I am not wise in my own mind ~ I learned everything I know the hard way. Not very wise ~ but once I got it, I got it good. 

"For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding; they are wise to do evil, bu to do good they have no knowledge." -Jeremiah

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Mar 19 2005, 01:48 AM

Yeah, interesting how scriptures fit when you want them to. But I am not wise in my own mind ~ I learned everything I know the hard way. Not very wise ~ but once I got it, I got it good. 

"For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding; they are wise to do evil, bu to do good they have no knowledge." -Jeremiah

You know he was speaking to the children of Israel, His chosen people right?

[Guest hwood247]

I feel I must reply to this post and say what my very first thought swere. First I'll tell you that as a mormon mother of a gay son I am struggling with many issues myself ( and at the moment I'm not asking for any advice as I'm muddled enough!!) but reading your post CGuy made me feel incredibly sad not just for you but for your wife also. The simplest answer I can give you is this, stop reading for a minute, stop battling everything out in you heart and head, sit and think very quietly about what you love, what feels RIGHT and then get down on your knees and with humility ask for the answer, how many times are we told that all we need to do is ask? So, put it to the test...ask. Simple as that, no-one here can give you the answers, your wife can't help you, anti mormons WON'T help you and you're not helping yourself by searching for answers on the internet and in books, ask the Lord, if it's true, He'll tell you.

Have I taken my own advice and prayed for the answers I am looking for? Nope, not sure I am strong enough to act on any answers I might get. Sometimes, it might be that we are actually just tired of the hard work it takes to be LDS how simple life would seem if we KNEW it wasn't true and could just go through this life without the work. Your life, however won't be simple because you have a wife who does know what is true for her....so yes, if you truly want out then you will have to face a whole pile of trouble and heartache but what else are we told? To thine own self be true, find the answer from the only source who knows for sure and find the peace of mind you are seeking.