God is Busy

[ADoyle90815]

To me, it sounds like one of those urban legend e-mail forwards that won't go away. Still, it's a nice message.

[utcowboy]

Good ol' brainwashed soldiers. They're unfortunately the most abused by the establishment.

Are you serious? These soldiers put their lives on the line every day and you have the nerve to sit behind your computer and claim that they are brainwashed!! My father was in Korea and Nam, My brother served in the first Desert storm. And many other family and friends have also served, so that you can have the freedom to express you opinion. You should at least have the descency not to try and degrade them, even if you don't agree with them being there!

[Aesa]

Are you serious? These soldiers put their lives on the line every day and you have the nerve to sit behind your computer and claim that they are brainwashed!! My father was in Korea and Nam, My brother served in the first Desert storm. And many other family and friends have also served, so that you can have the freedom to express you opinion. You should at least have the descency not to try and degrade them, even if you don't agree with them being there!

Yes, they are brainwashed if they think they are doing a great good for the world and I have every respect for those soldiers because it's not their fault for what they've become (I know this through speaking to many of them from different backgrounds). Just not the manipulative establishment that puts them there, that's what I do not and will not respect.

Universally, if people were not manipulated into joining armies there would be no war. It isn't hard to do.

There's a difference between defending one's homeland ON one's homeland, and an invasive foreign policy.

The only reason we have armies on a real level is because we have self-preserving institutions. It takes young people and says "This is the greatest country in the world! And God is on our side!" Every country in the world does that to it's people, so you've got a bunch of pinheads allover of the world responding to the same mechanisms of control. Patriotism and the Military are two the of the ultimate divide and conquers.

The military, though, was great. It just all went wrong when we started believing that we needed to invade other countries and fight wars internationally, that certainly was not the intention of your founding fathers. In-fact they never wanted an army at all. They wanted a militant citizenry, in other words everyone has a gun and knows how to use it, that could respond socially to any threats from abroad. What we have now is very dangerous.

[utcowboy]

Yes, they are brainwashed if they think they are doing a great good for the world and I have every respect for those soldiers because it's not their fault for what they've become (I know this through speaking to many of them from different backgrounds). Just not the manipulative establishment that puts them there, that's what I do not and will not respect.

Universally, if people were not manipulated into joining armies there would be no war. It isn't hard to do.

There's a difference between defending one's homeland ON one's homeland, and an invasive foreign policy.

The only reason we have armies on a real level is because we have self-preserving institutions. It takes young people and says "This is the greatest country in the world! And God is on our side!" Every country in the world does that to it's people, so you've got a bunch of pinheads allover of the world responding to the same mechanisms of control. Patriotism and the Military are two the of the ultimate divide and conquers.

The military, though, was great. It just all went wrong when we started believing that we needed to invade other countries and fight wars internationally, that certainly was not the intention of your founding fathers. In-fact they never wanted an army at all. They wanted a militant citizenry, in other words everyone has a gun and knows how to use it, that could respond socially to any threats from abroad. What we have now is very dangerous.

You seem to forget that they invaded our lands first and that we also gave the countries that they came from the option to catch and detain them before we did anything. You forget the sacrfices made by too many family to protect you and your freedom! The only brian washing going on is in the university where professor can spew vitriol and no one can say anything about it without being called a hate monger or racist, etc.

[Aesa]

They didn't invade our lands. They were allowed to. I fail to believe (I assume you're referring to 9/11?) that the best air security on the planet was infiltrated by some Arab men from caves in the deep Middle-East.

And even if they did invade first, that doesn't mean anything. That's like a kid saying, after punching someone "He started it!" How primitive and immature is that? When the human body is invaded with a virus it does not 'send out' it's own anti-bodies to fight off more of the disease once it's cleaned itself up - it builds up it's own immune system. This what we should be doing.

They are not protecting our freedom but an established system, the big business of war. If we actually considered ourselves threatened by another nation or ideology we'd build up our own security at home. We don't need to murder civilians to protect ourselves.

An invasive foreign policy is what destroyed the Roman Empire. How interesting that the American Empire should make the same mistake.

And I agree with you about universities. They're all too often cookie cutter systems in much the same way as churches; political ideologies; banks and the military are. There is little distinction there.

[Islander]

They didn't invade our lands. They were allowed to. I fail to believe (I assume you're referring to 9/11?) that the best air security on the planet was infiltrated by some Arab men from caves in the deep Middle-East.

And even if they did invade first, that doesn't mean anything. That's like a kid saying, after punching someone "He started it!" How primitive and immature is that? When the human body is invaded with a virus it does not 'send out' it's own anti-bodies to fight off more of the disease once it's cleaned itself up - it builds up it's own immune system. This what we should be doing.

They are not protecting our freedom but an established system, the big business of war. If we actually considered ourselves threatened by another nation or ideology we'd build up our own security at home. We don't need to murder civilians to protect ourselves.

An invasive foreign policy is what destroyed the Roman Empire. How interesting that the American Empire should make the same mistake.

And I agree with you about universities. They're all too often cookie cutter systems in much the same way as churches; political ideologies; banks and the military are. There is little distinction there.

You are either incredibly naive or I would question your sanity if I did not know better.

I am trying to be polite but I would suggest you would go and live in the third world where you can really be useful and share your knowledge, insight and expertise with people that really need it and can possibly appreciate it.

Otherwise it is just empty intellectual rhetoric with a grossly obtuse ideological twist that is really non-productive and borders on the offensive. It is obvious that you know very little about geopolitics and world history and have done even less to change the "systems of government" that you so much despise. The real world is not Wikipedia, in case you didn't know. It all sounds like pent up frustration and animosity with no place to go. I have gone over all of your posts and it seem like you have found an outlet for your general unhappiness with life in this forum which s very sad given what the purpose of it is to share the Gospel. Aren't you glad for freedom of expression, plurality of opinion, the wealth of of the western society in which you live that gives you access to a vast universe of information from the shade of your electrified home? I many places your rantings in the forum would have been over long ago. Give thanks to Pam for her saintly patience with you.

I repeat the words of the wise: our system of government is the worst in the world; of course, except for all the other ones.

[utcowboy]

They didn't invade our lands. They were allowed to. I fail to believe (I assume you're referring to 9/11?) that the best air security on the planet was infiltrated by some Arab men from caves in the deep Middle-East.

And even if they did invade first, that doesn't mean anything. That's like a kid saying, after punching someone "He started it!" How primitive and immature is that? When the human body is invaded with a virus it does not 'send out' it's own anti-bodies to fight off more of the disease once it's cleaned itself up - it builds up it's own immune system. This what we should be doing.

They are not protecting our freedom but an established system, the big business of war. If we actually considered ourselves threatened by another nation or ideology we'd build up our own security at home. We don't need to murder civilians to protect ourselves.

An invasive foreign policy is what destroyed the Roman Empire. How interesting that the American Empire should make the same mistake.

And I agree with you about universities. They're all too often cookie cutter systems in much the same way as churches; political ideologies; banks and the military are. There is little distinction there.

#1- they did invade, I don't know how you like to define things but they were on American soil.

#2- they had been in country for quite some time, some even enrolled in local Universities. And taking pilot lessons, you seem to be able to ignore the parts you don't like or that don't fit your argument.

#3- they are protecting our freedoms. Because if something isn't done then we would all be under the Taliban rule or Hilter rule or.... on and on and on. PS if America was an invading, and looking to expaned type of people, why didn't we keep all the lands that we freed during WWI and WWII?? Rather we help to re-establish the local government plus help pay for reconstruction. The same thing we are doing now.... The only difference is that people seem to forget that freedom and peace has to be fought for because there is always someone waiting to take it away from you!!!

#4- why am I arguing this with you? Your government has what 1500 or 2500 soldiers on the ground? What do you care what us Americans do? Take your arguement to your government, let them close your borders. Your land wasn't attacked but your ex-PM was thoughtful enough to offer help, ya'll disagreed with him and had him replaced. A very good example of your freedoms, I might add.

[Aesa]

I'm sorry that I'm coming across as entirely rejective of our government and our system (on the whole) that's not my intention, but we wont proceed in a respectful discussion if it's going to be based on ad-hom attacks from me our yourself (as your post, though respectfully honest, essentially was) or me.

If you want to challenge my knowledge on geopolitics or world history, you'll have to be defined and specific. Because to say it like that is to imply that a person needs to know a certain amount (and that measurement would almost definitively have to be subjective) before they can be listened to.

There are plenty of great things about our culture, and I don't deny that and I never will. But money and war (as examples) are not responsible for those, science and technology is. The wealth of western society, is it's knowledge and it's application of it.

"have done even less to change the "systems of government" that you so much despise..."

I'm doing everything I can, at all times. But I don't think that's really relevant to the discussion, unless you care to expand.

I thank pam for allowing this discussion, however, I wouldn't really call this thread saintly. I mean, the first post is about punching some guy out because he challenged God. Granted, it has some spiritual relevance but I think it's kind of distasteful.

Thank-you for your criticality, but we need to proceed without attacking one another.

[Aesa]

#1- they did invade, I don't know how you like to define things but they were on American soil.

#2- they had been in country for quite some time, some even enrolled in local Universities. And taking pilot lessons, you seem to be able to ignore the parts you don't like or that don't fit your argument.

#3- they are protecting our freedoms. Because if something isn't done then we would all be under the Taliban rule or Hilter rule or.... on and on and on. PS if America was an invading, and looking to expaned type of people, why didn't we keep all the lands that we freed during WWI and WWII?? Rather we help to re-establish the local government plus help pay for reconstruction. The same thing we are doing now.... The only difference is that people seem to forget that freedom and peace has to be fought for because there is always someone waiting to take it away from you!!!

#4- why am I arguing this with you? Your government has what 1500 or 2500 soldiers on the ground? What do you care what us Americans do? Take your arguement to your government, let them close your borders. Your land wasn't attacked but your ex-PM was thoughtful enough to offer help, ya'll disagreed with him and had him replaced. A very good example of your freedoms, I might add.

I feel this is going to far, but anyway...

#1 - Yes, they did invade. But it was allowed or ignored, is my point.

#2 - Yes, they had, and who payed for it?

#3 - They are, to a very twisted extent. I'll continue to reiterate this every time: freedoms are protected by protecting your homeland, not bombing people into democracy.

#4 - I care because I care for humanity on a holistic, as opposed to nationalistic level. God is not American; nor is he a Jew; nor is he British and he certainly isn't Australian. You're quite right, in Australia we don't appreciate war at all and I think the population is quickly getting dissatisfied with Rudd as well because he hasn't delivered on too much of his rhetoric (but that's another discussion altogether which probably requires a separate thread).

If you'd like to continue this discussion it might be more appropriate to move it to private message or another thread. I think this one has become hijacked at this stage.

[utcowboy]

I feel this is going to far, but anyway...

#1 - Yes, they did invade. But it was allowed or ignored, is my point.

#2 - Yes, they had, and who payed for it?

#3 - They are, to a very twisted extent. I'll continue to reiterate this every time: freedoms are protected by protecting your homeland, not bombing people into democracy.

#4 - I care because I care for humanity on a holistic, as opposed to nationalistic level. God is not American; nor is he a Jew; nor is he British and he certainly isn't Australian. You're quite right, in Australia we don't appreciate war at all and I think the population is quickly getting dissatisfied with Rudd as well because he hasn't delivered on too much of his rhetoric (but that's another discussion altogether which probably requires a separate thread).

If you'd like to continue this discussion it might be more appropriate to move it to private message or another thread. I think this one has become hijacked at this stage.

As far as this thread being hijacked, that would be for Pam to decide.

Nobody is bombing anyone into democracy. Our troops are doing exactly what was asked of them. Trying like all heck to root out an enemy of everyone! Read the papers, these people will kill thier own if the think it will get them attention. They take over areas and either kill the civilians or make them hide them!

I hope someday you can open your eyes and see what is actually happening. I don't agree with war or fighting but I'm not going to attack those men and women that are doing the best the can in a bad situation. And I also won't stand by and let you do it without saying something about!!

[Islander]

I'm sorry that I'm coming across as entirely rejective of our government and our system (on the whole) that's not my intention,

If you want to challenge my knowledge on geopolitics or world history, you'll have to be defined and specific.

I thank pam for allowing this discussion, however, I wouldn't really call this thread saintly. I mean, the first post is about punching some guy out because he challenged God. Granted, it has some spiritual relevance but I think it's kind of distasteful.

Thank-you for your criticality, but we need to proceed without attacking one another.

I did not attack you. I pointed to the fact that criticizing the US and its values is a recurrent theme in your posts, and that is fact. I pointed out that you have nothing but highly spurious and conspiracy flavored theories about actual events, all of it colored by your ideological bend, and you offer those as facts. That for all the time you spend on this forum most of your contribution relates to political arguments about issues that deal with historical facts and political realities that you seem to ignore for your thinking is clearly on the fringe rather than based on credible and reputable research.

And then I made a suggestion that your social theories for a better humanity (your world view) should be tested in the third world when you may be able to make a true and tangible contribution and perhaps be appreciated.

English is just one of the many languages I speak. Trust me, verbal insult or attack is not my style. That you find the truth insulting, now that is revealing.

[Just_A_Guy]

Anyone else notice that, right now, the first two lines on the "General Discussion" page are

"God is busy . . .

Going to Hell"?

[Aesa]

Calling someone naive without knowing their inner thoughts intimately is an ad-hom attack, that is the implication of the word.

Read the papers, these people will kill thier own if the think it will get them attention. They take over areas and either kill the civilians or make them hide them!

Oh? OH!? The lying corporate media that's going broke because the alternative media is exploding? No thanks, I'll stick with the indie media. I have to read enough newspaper nonsense at school.

Ofcourse what these people do is bad, there's horrible things going on everywhere. Our world is absolutely terrible when you think about the destruction we've done to ourselves. I mean this is worthy of endless tears. Just think of some examples: the Soviet murder of over 20,000,000 of it's own men, women and children; the Holodomor and the Holocaust; WWII; Crusades; Chinese Communism in general; North Korea...

I'm sorry that my posts seem to have an anti-US (specifically) flavour. I'm entirely against just about every destructive action on this earth.

The question I think we need to ask is: Why do these terrorists do that?

I can answer from what I consider a psychological perspective, but I'd love to hear what you all think.

[pam]

Oh where Oh where has my little thread gone? Oh where or where can it be?

Sheesh this has gone so far from what I originally posted. I never thought it would come to all of this.

[Hemidakota]

But, if you've never been a soldier I do not expect you to understand.

Exactly....