any advice? will i ever been forgiven?

[Italics]

I have to totally agree with those that have advised to see Branch President/Bishop. Italics I think you know as well as anyone else here the OP wasn't talking about "making out."

Bishops are the judges in Israel. Confessing and visiting with them is part of the step of repentence and forgiveness for serious sins. And yes I feel the OP was talking about more than making out. I agree with Bytor that if a person feels they have been forgiven, the Bishop is there to confirm that feeling.

And I pointed out that I wasn't aware of what the case was with the OP.

[pam]

The extra mile is speaking with their Bishop.

[Italics]

Maybe he is referring to himself........

No, but thanks anyway

[Just_A_Guy]

Again... making out is breaking the law of chastity... should I see my bishop if I make out in order to be forgiven?

Yes.

"Breaking the law of chastity" is pretty generic. What do you mean? Thinking impure thoughts? Viewing porn a few times? Making out? Touching? Intercourse? "The Law of Chastity" is not all that black and white.

It depends on what your definition of "is" is.

A General Authority once gave a talk about a couple who had been married and sealed for decades. Before they had been married, however, they had committed some sins dealing with the Law of Chastity (doesn't say how serious of course). They felt guilty about it even after all those years, and one day the husband told the bishop. The Bishop told them "The Church cannot punish you anymore than you have already punished yourself." In other words, he was making the point that they could have saved themselves from feeling so bad all of those years. He makes a point... but do you suppose that this couple had any special process to go through? Had he never done that, do you suppose they would have lost their eternal marriage?

When I was caught up in immorality, I recited that tale to myself frequently. It was very comforting.

But even if it were true (and I've never heard an actual source for that), it is in direct contravention of the current teachings of the Church. To say otherwise is to propound false doctrine.

[Italics]

Yes.

So 90% of the currently active members in the Church have not properly repented for breaking the law of chastity and therefore have no place in the Celestial Kingdom?

[Italics]

When I was caught up in immorality, I recited that tale to myself frequently. It was very comforting.

But even if it were true (and I've never heard an actual source for that), it is in direct contravention of the current teachings of the Church. To say otherwise is to propound false doctrine.

So according to the "current" doctrine of the church, you're saying that this faithful couple should have what... had their sealing revoked? Not been allowed to take the sacrament? Gone through the repentance process for whay they had done before they were married? Been re-married? Please elaborate.

[Just_A_Guy]

So 90% of the currently active members in the Church have not properly repented for breaking the law of chastity and therefore have no place in the Celestial Kingdom?

Assuming, arguendo, that your statistic on the number of unrepentant former-maker-outers is correct: Yes. We do not redefine "sin" simply because everybody's doing it.

So according to the "current" doctrine of the church, you're saying that this faithful couple should have what... had their sealing revoked? Not been allowed to take the sacrament? Gone through the repentance process for whay they had done before they were married? Been re-married? Please elaborate.

And if I understand your doctrine correctly, they needn't ever have bothered going to their bishop. Ever.

[Italics]

Assuming, arguendo, that your statistic on the number of unrepentant former-maker-outers is correct: Yes. We do not redefine "sin" simply because everybody's doing it.

Wow, I expected you to defend yourself... not actually agree that you believe anyone who has made out before marriage and never confessed it to their bishop will not reach the Celestial Kingdom.

You know what, I think that pretty much just killed any desire I had to further discuss this topic with anyone here.

Well i think I'm done with this thread. I hope God judges all of you more mercifully than you judge yourselves and others.

[Just_A_Guy]

I see no need to defend myself, Italics. I'm not the one denigrating the Church's authority to administer the gospel of repentance.

[Hemidakota]

Guys, remember this, going to the Bishop is still not the end of the repentance process. The Bishop may remove the curse or weight of the sin, but only the Lord and perhaps, those chosen by Him, will remove the sin entirely. There are two parts to this repentance process; 1] by authorized authorities, and 2] by the Lord Himself [or those assigned to do so].

Not all the brethren have that second part, Savior level authority, where the Lord can bestow that power to do so.

Bishops Remove Penalties, Not Sins

Although there are many ecclesiastical officers in the Church whose positions entitle and require them to be judges, the authority of those positions does not necessarily qualify them to forgive or remit sins. Those who can do that are extremely few in this world.

The bishop, and others in comparable positions, can forgive in the sense of waiving the penalties. In our loose connotation we sometimes call this forgiveness, but it is not forgiveness in the sense of "wiping out" or absolution. The waiver means, however, that the individual will not need to be tried again for the same error, and that he may become active and have fellowship with the people of the Church. In receiving the confession and waiving the penalties the bishop is representing the Lord. He helps to carry the burden, relieves the transgressor's strain and tension, and assures to him a continuation of Church activity.

It is the Lord, however, who forgives sin. This point, and the position of the bishop and comparable officers in the matter, was brought out in the following instruction given to bishops of the Church by President J. Reuben Clark on April 5, 1946:

I have been very much interested in what the bishop has said about forgiveness. There is a great principle involved there, as he indicated, and we must not, I think, conclude that forgiveness can be obtained merely for the asking. It has come to our attention that in one of our foreign missions boys came to the presiding officer, admitted their sin, they confessed, they were sorry, I suppose they wept, and he forgave them. Then they went back into the ranks, came back a month or six weeks later, confessed again, and were again forgiven.

I do not understand that that is the law of the Church. Sin is a terrible thing. The Lord does forgive, and he requires us to forgive, because he has said, "I will forgive whom I will, but of you it is required to forgive all men." We forgive them as members of the Church and receive them back into membership and fellowship.

There is in the Church... the power to remit sins, but I do not believe it resides in the bishops. That is a power that must be exercised under the proper authority of the priesthood and by those who hold the keys that pertain to that function. Woo back every sinner. Forgive them personally. The Lord has said that. Do all you can, but short of that formal remission the matter then rests between the transgressor and the Lord, who is merciful, who knows all of the circumstances, who has no disposition but to aid his children, give them comfort, guide them, and help them. But the Lord has said, "I cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance." So we leave it with him, and our prayers go with the prayers of the transgressor that God will forgive him, but the path of the sinner was never smooth and I believe never will he. We must pay the penalty, but God's mercy tempers his justice. His love is boundless, his desire to see us is infinite All of us have done something that would be better left undone. All of us need the mercy of God and his love, and we should look at all the others, our brothers and sisters, knowing that we, with them, have something for which to be forgiven, but we must remember we must pay whatever the price be that the Lord exacts.

Let it be said in emphasis that even the First Presidency and the Apostles do not make a practice of absolving sins. They waive penalties in the course of their ministrations. Thus the forgiveness or waiver of penalty is not something to be taken idly or thoughtlessly and is not to be given for a mere token effort or trial, but only for a genuine, wholehearted repentance. Little reward can be expected for a tiny effort to repent, for the Lord has said that it must be a total repentance "with all his heart" and the error must be forsaken fully and wholly, mentally as well as physically. The "filthy dreamer" of the day or night, or an adulterer who still has desires toward the object of his sin, who still revels in the memories of his sin, has not forsaken it "with all his heart" as required by holy scripture. But if the repentance is total, the scriptural "thou shalt forgive" not only is required of individuals but seems to unlock doors even for leaders.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

To add here from Kimball book [Miracle of Forgiveness], he stated that there are five steps for a complete remission of any sin;

1. Conviction of and sorrow for sin

2. Abandonment of sin

3. Confession of sin

4. Restitution for sin

5. Doing the will of the Lord

[Crywithasmile87]

Guys, remember this, going to the Bishop is still not the end of the repentance process. The Bishop may remove the curse or weight of the sin, but only the Lord and perhaps, those chosen by Him, will remove the sin entirely. There are two parts to this repentance process; 1] by authorized authorities, and 2] by the Lord Himself [or those assigned to do so].

Not all the brethren have that second part, Savior level authority, where the Lord can bestow that power to do so.

Excellent post.

In certain cases (that aren't too severe) I believe that seeing your Bishop ensures you are forgiven, but does not cause it.

It is a good way to be able to ensure yourself that you have done all you can do.

I feel very sorry for anyone who thinks that failure to visit the bishop results in 0 chances of ever being forgiven for your sin.