Resurrection, evolution and the Gospel

[threepercent]

so, this question is for all those people who have evolution and the history of the earth figured out.

how long will it take evolution to create the body I get when I get resurrected?

I am going to go out on a limb here (get the evolutionary connection? insert chortle) and say that it would follow that those who reach the celestial kingdom will have to wait the longest for their bodies to fully evolve before they can be "put into" them.

and can you tell me, as long as we are going to discuss such deep subjects, the evolutionary mechanism of "tarrying in the flesh" as it pertains to the three nephites?

we can skip Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego for now.

[Bluejay]

Hi, Threepercent.

how long will it take evolution to create the body I get when I get resurrected?

Since you are typing on a computer, I assume you have fingers? If so, I think it is safe to conclude that you already have a body.

So, your body has already been created by evolution. There is no need to create it again.

-----

I am going to go out on a limb here (get the evolutionary connection? insert chortle) and say that it would follow that those who reach the celestial kingdom will have to wait the longest for their bodies to fully evolve before they can be "put into" them.

Individual bodies cannot evolve in the manner described by the Theory of Evolution: ToE only deals with the changes that occur between generations (i.e. it deals with the differences between you and your parents; not between 5-year-old you and 25-year-old you).

[bytor2112]

So, your body has already been created by evolution. There is no need to create it again.

Evolution created his body? Huh.......and I thought Heavenly Father should get credit for that.:huh:

[Bluejay]

So, your body has already been created by evolution. There is no need to create it again.

Evolution created his body? Huh.......and I thought Heavenly Father should get credit for that.:huh:

"By" in that sentence is used in an operative sense, not an anthropomorphic sense: as in, "God created your body by evolution."

[threepercent]

"God created your body by evolution."

right, so how long will it take god to produce me a celestial body for me (via evolution) to enter after I die?

[john doe]

I'm confused. Who said celestial bodies would be formed through evolution? My understanding is that it will be perfected, not evolutionized. As far as I know, that process has not been revealed.

[pam]

I could be wrong but I sense a touch of sarcasm and tongue in cheek to the OP.

[rameumptom]

I believe God uses a combination of natural and divine interventions to accomplish things. When it suits him to take his time and evolve things, he does just that. When he wishes to step in and do things quickly, he also does that.

We do believe in a form of evolution, though it isn't from apes. We believe that we have evolved from intelligences to spirits to mortals, and will evolve into eternal physical beings in the future. However, God has a hand in key points of that evolution, such as forming our spirits from intelligences, or resurrecting us.

Before you toss the baby out with the bath water, study it all out and keep an open mind. The Bible does not specify exactly how God performs his miracles or works. The Book of Abraham does note during the Creation that when God commanded a portion of the creation, he awaited for it to obey. So that becomes an interesting point in the issue of creation and evolution.

I have no doubt that the day will come when both religion and science will be perfect, and both will align perfectly together. Until that day, we need to keep an open mind towards seeking truth in both arenas, and not worry if they do not perfectly mesh right now.

[rameumptom]

I'm confused. Who said celestial bodies would be formed through evolution? My understanding is that it will be perfected, not evolutionized. As far as I know, that process has not been revealed.

We do know that resurrection will be a priesthood ordinance, the keys of which we do not yet possess on earth.

[john doe]

You're right Ram, science and religion go hand-in-hand. Because truth is truth, whether it is the gospel or biology, or geology, or archeology. The trouble is determining what is actual truth and what is theory based on limited understanding. Just as we find truth in the gospel that disagrees with some commonly-held beliefs and theories, we also are still finding truth in science which disproves some commonly-held beliefs and theories. And sometimes the truths in one area cross over to smash the theories held in the other. I believe that we will eventually find a clear mesh of the two and that they are inseparably intertwined. Our problem is taking two things which seem to disagree between the two and finding how they work together, to make sense of the two things, so fit together as one.

[bmy-]

I could be wrong but I sense a touch of sarcasm and tongue in cheek to the OP.

It's definitely laid on pretty thick I think the OP hooked this one wide-left though.

[beefche]

Couldn't find the other evolution thread, and frankly too lazy to search hard for it.

Thought I'd post this to see what people's thoughts were:

Meridian Magazine:: Ideas and Society: Joseph Smith's Views on the Origin of Life

[Bluejay]

Hi, threepercent.

right, so how long will it take god to produce me a celestial body for me (via evolution) to enter after I die?

What?

I just explained in my first post why this is an invalid question: what do you hope to accomplish by simply repeating an invalid question?

Please try to engage in the discussion.

-----

Individuals do not evolve. Any change that happens to an individual during that individual's lifetime is not evolution, because it cannot be passed on to the individual's offspring. So, any change that happens to your body between now and your celestialization is also not evolution.

Evolution has nothing to do with changes taking place within individuals: its only jurisdiction is the changes taking place within populations. If multiple generations are not involved, evolution is not involved.

So, your question is invalid: do not ask it again.

[threepercent]

Hi, threepercent.

What?

I just explained in my first post why this is an invalid question: what do you hope to accomplish by simply repeating an invalid question?

Please try to engage in the discussion.

-----

Individuals do not evolve. Any change that happens to an individual during that individual's lifetime is not evolution, because it cannot be passed on to the individual's offspring. So, any change that happens to your body between now and your celestialization is also not evolution.

Evolution has nothing to do with changes taking place within individuals: its only jurisdiction is the changes taking place within populations. If multiple generations are not involved, evolution is not involved.

So, your question is invalid: do not ask it again.

no no no, your answer is invalid, so dont post it again.

come on people, between snow, traveler, and ogre, I am now convinced that evolution is indeed a fact, and that believe otherwise is just a show of ignorance. so jump on the bandwagon and stop being an ignoramus.

now, having fully embraced the learning of men, I just have some natural questions that stem from my new understanding of the creation, the fall, the atonement, and the Resurrection.

as we all now KNOW< god used the process of evolution to create the body he then placed Adam in, or something like that. so I guess he will use the same process to create a celestial body for me when I die and go to heaven. I mean that logicaly follows right?

god is the same yesterday today and forever so he would use the same method...

course, I have already run into some problems that I am sure snow will jump right on here to solve for us lesser educated pegans. such as

And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

and

And they would have had no children

so, if i understand correctly, god used evolution to create a body who couldnt have children and wouldnt die, then that body did something that re-introduced death and procreation, but it was doomed to return to the dust that it came from. i think.

anyway, I am just waiting on the smart people to come tell me how celestial bodies are formed. or created.

after that we will figure out how water evolves into wine, and how a loaf of bread evolves into more bread.

[HiJolly]

Thought I'd post this to see what people's thoughts were:

Meridian Magazine:: Ideas and Society: Joseph Smith's Views on the Origin of Life

I absolutely agree with Bro. Millett. Current instrumentation available to scientists does not detect the Light of Christ, that I am aware of. Or whatever other influences of God there may be.

Beautiful!

HiJolly

[HiJolly]

no no no, your answer is invalid, so dont post it again.

Bluejay's answer is exactly valid, your opinion notwithstanding. Your attempt to convince us that you understand evolution and it's involvement in the creation is falling QUITE flat. You obviously are not convinced, and don't comprehend.

So rather than speak forth your confusion and incomprehension, I suggest you do what I did when I reached this point----- be silent and learn, read, study all you can find to help you understand. Good luck.

as we all now KNOW< god used the process of evolution to create the body he then placed Adam in, or something like that.

Right.

so I guess he will use the same process to create a celestial body for me when I die and go to heaven. I mean that logicaly follows right?

No, it does not logically follow. Not at all.

god is the same yesterday today and forever so he would use the same method...

This line of reasoning would mean you don't believe Christ is God. Do you really want to go there? I would hope not.

so, if i understand correctly, god used evolution to create a body who couldnt have children and wouldnt die, then that body did something that re-introduced death and procreation, but it was doomed to return to the dust that it came from. i think.

There *are* answers, threepercent.

anyway, I am just waiting on the smart people to come tell me how celestial bodies are formed. or created.

after that we will figure out how water evolves into wine, and how a loaf of bread evolves into more bread.

I'm sure the Spirit will teach you, when you are ready. Sarcasm is not a Gospel tool, though. You should leave off.

HiJolly

[beefche]

us lesser educated pegans

That would be "us lesser educated pagans".

[Guest Believer_1829]

HiJolly-

I noticed, with great curiosity, that you failed to address the scripture that 3% offered up from the Book of Mormon.

[HiJolly]

HiJolly-

I noticed, with great curiosity, that you failed to address the scripture that 3% offered up from the Book of Mormon.

Do you mean this one:

And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

You're right - I did not address it. Would you like me to, and if so, why?

HiJolly

[threepercent]

me, im a pegan, as opposed to a poopgan.

[Guest Believer_1829]

Do you mean this one:

You're right - I did not address it. Would you like me to, and if so, why?

HiJolly

Just curious how it jives with evolution and the idea amoung some here that the Fall was purely allegorical.

[HiJolly]

Just curious how it jives with evolution and the idea amoung some here that the Fall was purely allegorical.

Very good. Have you heard some LDS say that the Garden of Eden was a 'unglorified Terrestrial' state of existence? And that mortality is a 'unglorified Telestial' state? If so, do you agree?

If not, what do you think about that idea?

HiJolly

[threepercent]

scary, I just found this out

The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.

good thing i am dumb and poor. whew!

[Guest Believer_1829]

Very good. Have you heard some LDS say that the Garden of Eden was a 'unglorified Terrestrial' state of existence? And that mortality is a 'unglorified Telestial' state? If so, do you agree?

If not, what do you think about that idea?

HiJolly

I have not. An "unglorified Kingdom of Glory" makes absolutely no sense to me.

[HiJolly]

I have not. An "unglorified Kingdom of Glory" makes absolutely no sense to me.

I did not say that, even though you put that phrase in quotes. Not good.

And you're right, it makes no sense.

HiJolly