semantics

[prisonchaplain]

No.. LDS is henotheistic. Henotheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. " (LDS translation of John 17:11)

It's a reference to the Godhead. 3 divine beings united in one person and acting as One.

I can't speak to encounters with missionaries, but in my discussions here, henotheism does seem to represent LDS theology the best. I've seen a few openly say they are polytheistic, and focus on their drive to exaltation. Yet, a few others, perhaps in a desire to find common ground with other Christians, insist they are montheists. They focus on the Godhead being one in purpose, and their sole target of devotion.

Perhaps the reality that members can insist on all three explanations, sometimes with great passion, explains some of the OP's concern?

[prisonchaplain]

I wonder how much education was required before John the Baptist - or the first Christians baptized someone. Do you know?

About the same amount it takes to get saved at a Billy Graham crusade?

[prisonchaplain]

This is a stupid come lately argument.

By this logic what authority did he need? There was no church no authority before him so if we follow the logic of your argument I can baptize and don't need anyone elses authority for any type of religious rite. Therefore negating organized Christianity as we know it today.

Actually, while most "low churches" (evangelical and other non-ritualistic ones), this is no negation. It's pretty much where we stand. We do have our ministers do the baptizing, but in most of the declarations we do not find, "BY THE AUTHORITY VESTED IN ME BY . . . " I suppose we look to John the Baptist for our example...not sure that he was ordained by anyone, other than God.

[Lstinthwrld]

Actually, while most "low churches" (evangelical and other non-ritualistic ones), this is no negation. It's pretty much where we stand. We do have our ministers do the baptizing, but in most of the declarations we do not find, "BY THE AUTHORITY VESTED IN ME BY . . . " I suppose we look to John the Baptist for our example...not sure that he was ordained by anyone, other than God.[/quote

My point here is I believe to be speaking from a LDS perspective. By that stance there is in fact organization and a certain level of achievement one must reach in the church before you can baptize.

Personally I believe that anyone who tells you the only way to God is through 'our' authority is full of it.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Lstinthwrld

[Vort]

Personally I believe that anyone who tells you the only way to God is through our authority is full of it.

The only way to God is through God's authority, which he has restored to the earth in his kingdom, aka the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This is not a claim of "mine is better than yours", but of "God's is better than not God's".

[Lstinthwrld]

The only way to God is through God's authority, which he has restored to the earth in his kingdom, aka the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This is not a claim of "mine is better than yours", but of "God's is better than not God's".

Ok if its so cut and dry....prove it beyond a shadow of doubt.

[Lstinthwrld]

I am very willing to believe.

But to me all the various churches are just kind of like used car dealers. Each one trying to convince me they have the best car that I need and I cant live without their car.

Problem is I already own a car.

[Vort]

Ok if its so cut and dry....prove it beyond a shadow of doubt.

I have proved it to my own satisfaction.

If you want to know, then you have some work to do.

Or you can continue sitting there expressing disbelief. Either way.

[Lstinthwrld]

The only way to God is through God's authority, which he has restored to the earth in his kingdom, aka the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This is not a claim of "mine is better than yours", but of "God's is better than not God's".

This is an issue for me.

This kind of "the LDS church is the only way" egotistic junk is the main reason I haven't joined the church.

I personally don't believe God and salvation are or can be exclusive to one religion much less one church organization.

This whole my way or noway crap was not in vogue until the book against heresies by Irenaeus came out in early Christianity.

This view has got to stop.

Christianity in general and the mormon church in particular is not the only way to get to 'heaven'.

[Lstinthwrld]

I have proved it to my own satisfaction.

If you want to know, then you have some work to do.

Or you can continue sitting there expressing disbelief. Either way.

Don't you find this response a little...proud?

[Lstinthwrld]

I have proved it to my own satisfaction.

If you want to know, then you have some work to do.

Or you can continue sitting there expressing disbelief. Either way.

What you are saying here is basically "I believe so you should to" right?

[Justice]

I suppose we look to John the Baptist for our example...not sure that he was ordained by anyone, other than God.

John the Baptist was a rightful heir of the Levitical Priesthood authority by birth. This is why his father performed ritual temple duties, where he saw the angel.

It is a matter of record that all who were born in this line were ordained by another rightful heir. There is a very strong possibility that he was ordained by his father, Zacharias.

[Vort]

This is an issue for me.

This kind of "the LDS church is the only way" egotistic junk is the main reason I haven't joined the church.

Now you're just ranting.

Look, either LDS claims to exclusive divine authority are true or they are false. If they are false, you can safely ignore them. If they are true, you must heed them.

It's just not that hard.

I personally don't believe God and salvation are or can be exclusive to one religion much less one church organization.

Fine. And I personally don't believe that chocolate caramel is the best ice cream flavor. Our opinions and two bucks will buy us a cup of steaming hot chocolate at BYU.

This whole my way or noway crap was not in vogue until the book against heresies by Irenaeus came out in early Christianity.

Irenaeus? You have got to be kidding.

Have you ever actually read the Bible?

This view has got to stop.

Christianity in general and the mormon church in particular is not the only way to get to 'heaven'.

If you are so sure of this, then you have nothing to worry about. So why are you ranting on an LDS discussion group?

Obviously, it really bothers you that others see things differently from you.

[Vort]

What you are saying here is basically "I believe so you should to" right?

No. What I'm saying is, if you want a revelation like I have had, do what is necessary to receive that revelation. Complaining about what others say won't get you there from here.

[Vort]

Don't you find this response a little...proud?

Proud? How so?

What, do you think I should deny the revelations God has given me? I think the apostle Paul would not agree with you.

[Justice]

What you are saying here is basically "I believe so you should to" right?

Not at all.

What he's saying is that in order to come to know truth it takes some effort on your part.

Truth is not a magic apple that falls from the sky. It is something we learn by:

1) Studying the word

2) Putting into practice what we learn

3) Enduring hardship and trial to be tested

Then, and only then, do we come to know.

Ether 12:

6 And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith.

1 Peter 1:

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 4:

12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

[Lstinthwrld]

No. What I'm saying is, if you want a revelation like I have had, do what is necessary to receive that revelation. Complaining about what others say won't get you there from here.

Thank you for the fanatical LDS perspective now we can all return to a proper discussion not a church propaganda fest.

[Lstinthwrld]

Proud? How so?

What, do you think I should deny the revelations God has given me? I think the apostle Paul would not agree with you.

Pauline Christianity was considered heresy until the first council of Nicaea did you know that?

[Vort]

Thank you for the fanatical LDS perspective now we can all return to a proper discussion not a church propaganda fest.

So my urging you to seek revealed truth from God himself is the "fanatical LDS perspective", huh?

Well, what do you expect on a list devoted to fanatical Latter-day Saints?

(That darn Mormon Church and their propaganda that people should seek revelations of truth directly from God! How transparently manipulative!)

[Justice]

Sure, it was considered heresy by those who killed the Apostles and took over the Christian church.

[Vort]

Pauline Christianity was considered heresy until the first council of Nicaea did you know that?

I did not know that, nor do I now believe it. Your understanding of Biblical doctrine is apparently so full of error that I certainly see no reason to give credence to your understanding of Biblical history.

[Lstinthwrld]

No. What I'm saying is, if you want a revelation like I have had, do what is necessary to receive that revelation. Complaining about what others say won't get you there from here.

Yes and what I am saying is the LDS church does NOT have the only set of key for this 'revelation'.

[Lstinthwrld]

I did not know that, nor do I now believe it. Your understanding of Biblical doctrine is apparently so full of error that I certainly see no reason to give credence to your understanding of Biblical history.

This a purely mormon stance on biblical interpretations. Go talk to any nonLDS scholar about it.

[Lstinthwrld]

So my urging you to seek revealed truth from God himself is the "fanatical LDS perspective", huh?

Well, what do you expect on a list devoted to fanatical Latter-day Saints?

(That darn Mormon Church and their propaganda that people should seek revelations of truth directly from God! How transparently manipulative!)

See you think the only way to God is through mormonism I dont.

[Lstinthwrld]

I did not know that, nor do I now believe it. Your understanding of Biblical doctrine is apparently so full of error that I certainly see no reason to give credence to your understanding of Biblical history.

Hey Vort I have an idea.....lets all the true believers start strapping on bombs and get rid of the unbelievers. Martyrdom yay.