ONE Obama idea I like!

[georgia2]

Ok, ok now.......... Not too fond of our president, didn't vote for him, still have problems with most of his decisions. BUT,....... one thing that he has promised money to is light rail systems. This idea should have been addressed 30 - 40 years ago! If I could ride a train to places I have to drive now, places like 20 or more miles, I WOULD DO IT!!! Can read, computerize, talk on phone, meditate, even nap instead of dealing with traffic jams, buying gas, buying tires, creating more polution, and getting all stressed out. The U. S. i WAY behind in this solution to cover many problems we are facing to day. Only problem is that only a small fraction of the $$ needed will be handed out.

[ferretrunner]

It would be nice if it could happen. Mr. Obama doesn't seem to effective. It's weird- the democrats have control of House, Senate, and White House and are not capable or willing to make all the "changes" that were promised. LOL. Politics as usual. Protect big business and the uber rich at the expense of the middle class and poor. Gee, I sound like a socialist. I'm really not- I just think the country got their priorties mixed up and started chasing money at the expense of things that really matter in the long run.

[Guest]

There was a bill passed in Florida to build an LRT track to connect the major Florida cities - mainly Jacksonville, Tallahassee, Orlando, Tampa, Miami. Majority voted for it one year. Then they realized Florida cannot afford to build it unless they raise buckoo taxes. So, majority voted to repeal it the next voting cycle.

Lots of times, great ideas remain just that - ideas, because there is no means to achieve it.

[Just_A_Guy]

Light rail is a nice idea. I believe it's also turned out to be something of a money pit for many of the cities that have tried it (Portland and SLC being the ones I've heard most about). If you raise ticket rates enough to take a significant chunk out of operational costs, it becomes cheaper for the prospective riders just to drive to work--and then, from an environmental standpoint, you aren't helping anybody.

I'm not deeply opposed to light rail, but if we want to see significant benefits from its presence then we'd better be prepared to pay . . . and pay . . . and pay.

[georgia2]

I'm amazed at the systems in DC and NewYOrk! They go everywhere and come every five minutes. Also cheap! In regards to gas and upkeep and insurance for a car. I also love using these systems when I'm able to. I live in Virginia and we have traffic jams everyday, I would LOVE to be able to get on a train and ride to RIchmond or Virginia Beach. I would go a lot more and enjoy it more also.

If only i was a genie!

[rayhale]

The problem of mass transportation in America, is that we Americans LOVE our cars. Cars = independence, and freedom. Also there is multi tiered things that need to be in place, like:

1. PEOPLE NEED TO USE IT! This is by far the most important thing that needs to happen, since if people don’t use mass transportation, then the government CAN’T justify spending millions, or billions, to set one up in your area.

2. Major companies in the area NEED to get together so that they can have work shifts come on, and off, at the most effective times. This mainly concerns the non 9 to 5 shifts.

3. I know I said this already, but I can’t say this more clearly, PEOPLE NEED TO USE PUBLIC TRANPORTATION! Think of this, a bus can hold around 50 to 100 people, most commuters are single-person drivers, this means that ONE bus can replace up to 100 cars, a commuter train can replace even more.

[Mahone]

3. I know I said this already, but I can’t say this more clearly, PEOPLE NEED TO USE PUBLIC TRANPORTATION! Think of this, a bus can hold around 50 to 100 people, most commuters are single-person drivers, this means that ONE bus can replace up to 100 cars, a commuter train can replace even more.

This is coming from the UK perspective (our government want us to use public transport more too for obvious reasons), and only in the part of the UK I live in as well, it's vastly different 150 miles down south. But I really do not like using public transport. The buses in our area are really quite dirty and vandalised. The bus operator seems to have the attitude of "well, they damaged it they'll have to deal with it". Sometimes I have to walk past several seats before I find one that looks clean enough to sit on. I try not to think about what's on them. The trains, while fairly clean are always very overcrowded on major routes with people having to stand for a 2 or 3 hour journey. It probably doesn't help that I live only 3 miles from the central train network hub for the whole of England.

Then there is the issue of buses taking half an hour to arrive when they are supposed to be every 5 minutes for example. During peak time they are usually okay, but on off peak hours the stated timetable is worth nothing.

Until the government start to clean up public transport a bit, how do they expect to get people using it?

Edited September 6, 2009 by Mahone

[Dravin]

Until the government start to clean up public transport a bit, how do they expect to get people using it?

And they're probably thinking if nobody is using it why bother cleaning it? :)

Train wise Europe has a one up on the US, outside of some major corridors we just don't have the population density to justify (passanger, freight does just fine in this country from what I understand) trains and IIRC have an easier time nabbing land. Trains need masses of people to be economical and in the center of the country we're really pretty spread out for it to work well, you also run into the problem that Europe started with trains earlier as a transportation network IIRC, so they got the land before the population that makes trains so attractive but land to build on harder to grab occured.

Buses kinda get around that in that they use existing infrastructure, there are less sunk costs involved and they're flexible. if not many people are traveling from Backwatertown to Ruralville you just don't run a bus or don't run it as often. Of course the problem you run into with that is unless buses come every five minutes its more convenient to go by car so if they increase the time between buses less people use it which starts a feedback loop, less people use it, wait times increase and thus less people use it, so they run the bus even less, trains can do this as well but you run into the problem that you can't just move the route (as easily) as you are bound to the rails you built.

Also, you can't overlook that fact that often times its just down right faster to take your car than public transportation that may not apply to places such as down town New York or London or long distances with high speed rail but in suburbia it can definitely be the case. In fact out here in Eagle Mountain there isn't any buses, I couldn't take a bus all the way to school if I wanted to, unless they'd finally gotten around to the express route to SLC (which wouldn't help my anyway) no buses, aside from school buses, operate in Eagle Mountain.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Dravin

[georgia2]

This is coming from the UK perspective (our government want us to use public transport more too for obvious reasons), and only in the part of the UK I live in as well, it's vastly different 150 miles down south. But I really do not like using public transport. The buses in our area are really quite dirty and vandalised. The bus operator seems to have the attitude of "well, they damaged it they'll have to deal with it". Sometimes I have to walk past several seats before I find one that looks clean enough to sit on. I try not to think about what's on them. The trains, while fairly clean are always very overcrowded on major routes with people having to stand for a 2 or 3 hour journey. It probably doesn't help that I live only 3 miles from the central train network hub for the whole of England.

Then there is the issue of buses taking half an hour to arrive when they are supposed to be every 5 minutes for example. During peak time they are usually okay, but on off peak hours the stated timetable is worth nothing.

Until the government start to clean up public transport a bit, how do they expect to get people using it?

YEs, you're right, the need to have crews keep it clean would be necessary! The only mass transit I am talking about is trains, light rail. I've only used them in DC and NEw York which function exceptionally well. As far as people using them, I guess people would have to care about their country in the long run versus their selfhisnes of having their own car drive everywhere.

[Elphaba]

Light rail is a nice idea. I believe it's also turned out to be something of a money pit for many of the cities that have tried it (Portland and SLC being the ones I've heard most about)

Is SLC's light rail a money pit? I didn't know that. I thought it was successful, but only because of the people I know who use it, and love it.

That's unfortunate.

[Churchmouse]

Ok, ok now.......... Not too fond of our president, didn't vote for him, still have problems with most of his decisions. BUT,....... one thing that he has promised money to is light rail systems. This idea should have been addressed 30 - 40 years ago! If I could ride a train to places I have to drive now, places like 20 or more miles, I WOULD DO IT!!! Can read, computerize, talk on phone, meditate, even nap instead of dealing with traffic jams, buying gas, buying tires, creating more polution, and getting all stressed out. The U. S. i WAY behind in this solution to cover many problems we are facing to day. Only problem is that only a small fraction of the $$ needed will be handed out.

What's stopping you from doing all those things while you drive? Everyone else does.:):)

[Just_A_Guy]

Is SLC's light rail a money pit? I didn't know that. I thought it was successful, but only because of the people I know who use it, and love it.

That's unfortunate.

I can say from personal experience that TRAX is both well-used and well-loved; and from anecdotal experience that the same is true of FrontRunner. But they're still demanding more money from the State. Part of that, no doubt, is construction funds--the TRAX line is done from SLC to Draper, but they're doing three or four east-west branches including one out to the airport; and FrontRunner is being extended down into Utah Valley.

I've seen simulations, though, that project that even when it's all done it won't be paying for itself--which is a shame.

[lilered]

There is a difference between the European and U.S. Rail Systems. In Europe, these systems are owned by the Government, thus are a money pit. The nice thing over there is they run passenger service mostly during the daylite hours and the bulk of their freight at night or use the Rhine River.

In the United States, most of the Railroads are privately owned and they lease trackage rights to the Government to run subsidized public transportation. E.G. East Rail Corridor as well as those cities previously mentioned. The contracts carry bonus clauses if the passenger trains run on scheduled time, as well as penalties if they do not. In years gone by, the U.S. Railroads couldn't make any money by running passenger trains, thus they got rid of them. They desire to run freight trains, which is where the money is. Bottom Line: Passenger ridership will not pay for the operation of the railroad, thus it requires it to be subsidized whether it is in Europe or here. What's wrong with that anyway? At least, people who ride the train back and forth to work, aren't burning gasoline, causing pollution, getting into car wrecks, nor driving while intoxicated nor are they wearing out the bridges or highways, nor throwing litter out the car windows..

[ADoyle90815]

I've taken the light rail system into downtown LA from my area several times, and it's really nice. They're even expanding it to cover more areas and even putting in turn styles in many of the downtown stations for the new pass card system. Before the pass card was introduced, they had an honor system where you kept your ticket or pass with you, and the metro police would frequently board the trains to check tickets.

I do love the system they have in San Francisco and other cities since you don't have to rent a car while vacationing there as they have stations that are either right at the airport, or a quick shuttle bus ride away. It would be nice if LA's system grows to be as convenient as other cities are.

[jadams_4040]

Ok, ok now.......... Not too fond of our president, didn't vote for him, still have problems with most of his decisions. BUT,....... one thing that he has promised money to is light rail systems. This idea should have been addressed 30 - 40 years ago! If I could ride a train to places I have to drive now, places like 20 or more miles, I WOULD DO IT!!! Can read, computerize, talk on phone, meditate, even nap instead of dealing with traffic jams, buying gas, buying tires, creating more polution, and getting all stressed out. The U. S. i WAY behind in this solution to cover many problems we are facing to day. Only problem is that only a small fraction of the $$ needed will be handed out.

Yes and this sort of thing falls under the "green" jobs thing which definately is the way to go. gonna take some time; but its one of the very best things we could have instituted over the long haul. {green jobs}:)