Just_A_Guy Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 GrandmaAri, two points:1. How do you account for contemporaneously-published birth announcements in Hawaiian newspapers?2. As a legal matter, the Constitution does not require "proof of citizenship". It requires "citizenship" but is silent as to how this is to be demonstrated. It is the province of the US Supreme Court to make that call; and so far they do not appear to have done so.And now, a question:If the President does come up with a certificate of live birth in order to demonstrate his qualification for office (making himself, as far as I know, the first US president to do so)--what then? Will you accept it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 GrandmaAri, two points:1. How do you account for contemporaneously-published birth announcements in Hawaiian newspapers?2. As a legal matter, the Constitution does not require "proof of citizenship". It requires "citizenship" but is silent as to how this is to be demonstrated. It is the province of the US Supreme Court to make that call; and so far they do not appear to have done so.And now, a question:If the President does come up with a certificate of live birth in order to demonstrate his qualification for office (making himself, as far as I know, the first US president to do so)--what then? Will you accept it?How does one account for the fact that Obama is unaccountable to the American people? In order to assume the position of U.S. president, one must, by law, be a U.S. citizen. The issue has been made public on numerous occasions, but Obama apparently considers himself to be above the law and refuses to reveal the truth about his citizenship. In regard to proof of citizenship, once that is satisfied, we (Americans) still have a problem...Obama is a socialist. America is a Republic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 How does one account for the fact that Obama is unaccountable to the American people?Umm . . . it's not like aliens flew in and elected the guy . . . In order to assume the position of U.S. president, one must, by law, be a U.S. citizen. The issue has been made public on numerous occasions, but Obama apparently considers himself to be above the law and refuses to reveal the truth about his citizenship.Or he considers himself a US citizen, believes that the evidence already provided should satisfy everyone with a reasonably open mind on the matter, and has not been asked to provide an actual certificate by anyone with lawful authority to do so.In regard to proof of citizenship, once that is satisfied, we (Americans) still have a problem...Obama is a socialist. America is a Republic.AMEN!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Umm . . . it's not like aliens flew in and elected the guy . . . Or he considers himself a US citizen, believes that the evidence already provided should satisfy everyone with a reasonably open mind on the matter, and has not been asked to provide an actual certificate by anyone with lawful authority to do so.That's a very interesting point you bring up... if he is foreign born, he is an alien. Considering oneself to be a citizen is not the same as providing proof of citizenship. As an attorney, he know this, of course, and he's just being evasive. The question remains as to why Obama is being evasive about providing proof of U.S. citizenship by revealing his birth certificate to the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenamarie Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.snopes.com: Barack Obama Birth Certificate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Obama has not provided a birth certificate...only a certificate of live birth (colb)...we're still waiting. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Granny? You wanna beat Obama up over his ideology and policies, I'm there. Let's get the bats out and let him have it. But the citizenship debate on him is a rabbit hole. You won't be satisfied with whatever answer you get unless he comes right out and says he wasn't born here. Let it go and go after something you can affect, like the healthcare scam or his spending our country into oblivion, or his 'czars' being communists, or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) Newsmax.com - Hawaii Confirms Obama Birth Certificate Not Released Edited September 10, 2009 by GrandmaAri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Granny? You wanna beat Obama up over his ideology and policies, I'm there. Let's get the bats out and let him have it. But the citizenship debate on him is a rabbit hole. You won't be satisfied with whatever answer you get unless he comes right out and says he wasn't born here. Let it go and go after something you can affect, like the healthcare scam or his spending our country into oblivion, or his 'czars' being communists, or worse.First of all, I ain't your granny. lol You may call me Ari. :) Secondly, let's get down to the basics here. First things first...if Obama isn't a citizen, everything that he does as acting president is null and void! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 OK, GrandmaAri, here's the deal:The President does not have custody or control of the long-form birth certificate. That's in the State of Hawaii Archives. So this talk about "him releasing his birth certificate" is madness. He doesn't have the document.Even if he could get the State to retrieve the long-form certificate (could you get your birth state to retrieve yours?), there is no way in high hades that they're going to part with the original. And you and I both know that you won't be satisfied with a photocopy of the long-form birth certificate. If you'll accuse the state of Hawaii of forging a short-form, you'll no doubt also accuse them of doing the same with the long form if and when it comes to light.So why should the President act as if there's a question concerning his citizenship when the State of Hawaii vouches for him and contemporaneously published newspapers mention his birth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) OK, GrandmaAri, here's the deal:The President does not have custody or control of the long-form birth certificate. That's in the State of Hawaii Archives. So this talk about "him releasing his birth certificate" is madness. He doesn't have the document.Even if he could get the State to retrieve the long-form certificate (could you get your birth state to retrieve yours?), there is no way in high hades that they're going to part with the original. And you and I both know that you won't be satisfied with a photocopy of the long-form birth certificate. If you'll accuse the state of Hawaii of forging a short-form, you'll no doubt also accuse them of doing the same with the long form if and when it comes to light.Ok, so don't call me Ari. lol I was just trying to be friendly...on a first name basis. This is interesting...I have my birth certificate...with the seal and all...as well as my certificate of live birth. Recently, I changed the name on my SS card, and the only form of ID they would accept was my original birth certificate. Are you submitting that as a lawyer...even the so-called president...that Obama is unable to obtain a copy of his own birth certificate? Or is he just unwilling to comply with the public demand to prove U.S. citizenship? Edited September 10, 2009 by GrandmaAri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingPurpleMonkey Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 It's never too late for him to reject his socialist, race pimping, terrorist associating past. We all believe in forgiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) Ok, so don't call me Ari. lol I was just trying to be friendly...on a first name basis. Apologies; I'll call you Ari, then. :) This is interesting...I have my birth certificate...with the seal and all...as well as my certificate of live birth.Were you born in Hawaii?Recently, I changed the name on my SS card, and the only form of ID they would accept was my original birth certificate.That's interesting. Not too long ago I got a SS card for my infant daughter (born in UT), and all the SSA demanded was the certification of live birth and not the long-form birth certificate. My recollection is that when my wife and I were married, again--all they needed was the certification of live birth.Are you submitting that as a lawyer...even the so-called president...that Obama is unable to obtain a copy of his own birth certificate? Or is he just unwilling to comply with the public demand to prove U.S. citizenship?I have no idea what regulations govern the Hawaii State Archives. But the funny thing is, if Obama did use the big stick of federal power and forced Hawaii to turn the original certificate over in spite of its own regulations--what howls of "state's rights" would then emanate from the exact same group that is currently demanding the certificate!At any rate: the President met the standard required by our country's highest tribunal. All that remains is to placate a crowd that wouldn't vote for him anyways, and most of whom--to be blunt--if given the original birth certificate, would shred it as soon as read it. Edited September 10, 2009 by Just_A_Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingPurpleMonkey Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 We all know it would be easy for Obama to have his long-form BC released in a manner we all could believe, he just refuses to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 How do we know it, FlyingPurpleMonkey? Please include citations to the Hawaii Open Records statute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Apologies; I'll call you Ari, then. :) Were you born in Hawaii?That's interesting. Not too long ago I got a SS card for my infant daughter (born in UT), and all the SSA demanded was the certification of live birth and not the long-form birth certificate. My recollection is that when my wife and I were married, again--all they needed was the certification of live birth.I have no idea what regulations govern the Hawaii State Archives. But the funny thing is, if Obama did use the big stick of federal power and forced Hawaii to turn the original certificate over in spite of its own regulations--what howls of "state's rights" would then emanate from the exact same group that is currently demanding the certificate!At any rate: the President met the standard required by our country's highest tribunal. All that remains is to placate a crowd that wouldn't vote for him anyways, and most of whom--to be blunt--if given the original birth certificate, would shred it as soon as read it.Cool! Now what do I call you... guy? lol And that's very interesting regarding your experiences. I live in Arizona, and I was required to provide my birth certificate. By the way, I was born on Halloween...if ya wanna check up on me, ya can. Sorry, but I just don't trust the government...you know, don't put your trust in the arm of flesh, and all that. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 First of all, I ain't your granny. lol You may call me Ari. :) Secondly, let's get down to the basics here. First things first...if Obama isn't a citizen, everything that he does as acting president is null and void! I refuse to call you Ari. We had an Ari here a while ago who was certifiably crazy. Unless you're the same person? As for Obama, that horse has left the shed, there will be no do-over even if he's found not to be a citizen. The damage has been done and you can't just go back a year or four later and reset it. All you can do is work it out from this point on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilered Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 GrandmaAri: You look strangely like a girl I used to date in High School. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Each state uses different methods of providing source of birth. Unfortunately for Hawaii, it is more lacks than most. Living in Hawaii, I can attest how poorly the state government operates and amount of corruption within. But then, that is pretty much anyway today. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 I refuse to call you Ari. We had an Ari here a while ago who was certifiably crazy. Unless you're the same person? As for Obama, that horse has left the shed, there will be no do-over even if he's found not to be a citizen. The damage has been done and you can't just go back a year or four later and reset it. All you can do is work it out from this point on.One and the same, tyvm! And no, I wasn't crazy then...nor am I now. And realistically speaking, if Obama is proven to not be a U.S. citizen, it will create a constitutional crisis.Incidentally... judge not.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 GrandmaAri:You look strangely like a girl I used to date in High School. Well aren't you the lucky one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 One and the same, tyvm! And no, I wasn't crazy then...nor am I now. And realistically speaking, if Obama is proven to not be a U.S. citizen, it will create a constitutional crisis.Incidentally... judge not.... And just how do you propose to prove it? BTW, the corrected phrase is 'judge not unrighteously', and the record speaks for itself. Which brings us to another point. You are judging Obama based on......... what? Have you found a Nigerian, or Malaysian, or any other foreign birth certificate which proves he was born elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsAri Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 And just how do you propose to prove it? BTW, the corrected phrase is 'judge not unrighteously', and the record speaks for itself. Which brings us to another point. You are judging Obama based on......... what? Have you found a Nigerian, or Malaysian, or any other foreign birth certificate which proves he was born elsewhere?How do you propose to prove that I'm certifiably crazy?Yes, we all make righteous/unrighteous judgements. I'm a constitutionalist; Obama is a Marxist. And I'm not crazy. 'Nuf said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 I dreamt that Obama was born on Krypton. Is that proof enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 I don't think if it were proven that Obama's not a natural-born citizen of the U.S. it will matter. Those in power don't seek to honor the Constituion anyway, and any kind of grass-roots effort to impeach him won't get anywhere because of organized media opposition. Obama's in it for the long haul- and where he's taking us is not a happy place. He's in, though- the American people chose flattering words over substantive principles, and now we're paying the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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