Isaiah 43:10

[evaughn]

Perhaps you can help me answer a question for someone else. I was born a member of the church and am fairly used to answering questions. It's been awhile since I was stumped. It seems like I shouldn't have been, the question is basic but I couldn't think of a good way to phrase an answer. I was asked about Isaiah 43:10. It says:

You are my witnesses," declares the LORD,

"and my servant whom I have chosen,

so that you may know and believe me

and understand that I am he.

Before me no god was formed,

nor will there be one after me.

She asked why that didn't contracted the LDS belief that if we live worthily we ourselves can attain godhood. Because that would mean quite a few gods in existence after Him. She was very earnest in her questioning. I felt bad that I couldn't put together an answer that would help her understand better and not confuse her more. Can you help?

[Dravin]

The only explanations I've heard rely on Jehovah's/Christ's god status, being the literal 'biological' (lacking a better term) child of God, being quite different from us. Jesus was formed as part god and part man in the womb, we however are different. Either that or its talking to them about how Jehovah was their only God, he wasn't going to pass away and get replaced with Zeus or someone else. As far as the Isrealites were concerned he was the one and only god formed.

That's just ones I can remember hearing, I've never tried to subject them to any logical or scriptural testing to see if they hold up though, you'd probably want to do that before you repeated them to your friend.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Dravin

[Maxel]

Simple answer:

Isaiah is writing to a people under a lesser law. Remind your friend of the "milk before meat" doctrine. The Israelites under Isaiah weren't ready to live according to a higher law, and therefore weren't ready for more advanced doctrine. There are many gods (lower-case 'G'), but to us there is one God whom we worship and whom we call the father of our spirits.

An analogy would be to look at temporal families. Speaking biologically, a father may say to his son- "I am your father. Before me, there was no man who has been your father and there will be no one after me who is your father." Same concept, IMO.

[evaughn]

These were some very helpful answers. Much more simply and understandibly put than I could have managed. I'm glad I waited to answer so that I can tell her something that will make sense. It's so wonderful to have a forum like this available.

[Just_A_Guy]

Frankly, I look at it as that scene from Remember the Titans where Coach Boone is chewing out VerTeer before they get on the bus to go to football camp: something along the lines of "you ain't got no momma. You've got your brothers on the team, and you've got your daddy. And I'm your daddy."

Or, in Kindergarten Cop, where Arnold Schwartzenegger tells the stunned kindergartners, "There IS no bathroom!" - technically incorrect, but making a very salient point.

In the case of Isaiah, I see it as God saying "to you, for all practical purposes, while you're on this sphere--there ain't no God but me."

Not great theology; but it works for me.

[jadams_4040]

Perhaps you can help me answer a question for someone else. I was born a member of the church and am fairly used to answering questions. It's been awhile since I was stumped. It seems like I shouldn't have been, the question is basic but I couldn't think of a good way to phrase an answer. I was asked about Isaiah 43:10. It says:

You are my witnesses," declares the LORD,

"and my servant whom I have chosen,

so that you may know and believe me

and understand that I am he.

Before me no god was formed,

nor will there be one after me.

She asked why that didn't contracted the LDS belief that if we live worthily we ourselves can attain godhood. Because that would mean quite a few gods in existence after Him. She was very earnest in her questioning. I felt bad that I couldn't put together an answer that would help her understand better and not confuse her more. Can you help?

Yes is "the" God but is not his son Jesus Christ a God? He raised the dead. he healed the sick and the lame, he gives us eternal life thru his atonement; he causes waters to move, earthquakes to happen,miracles to happen,E;T;C... when giving an answer to a question as this; one must first show that Jesus was the creater of the earth under the name "jehovah" in the old testament and under the direction of his father "God" . but none the less; if anyone would claim Jesus is not a God; then something is wrong.:)

[Snow]

http://en.fairmormon.org/%22No_God_beside_me%22

[Traveler]

Perhaps you can help me answer a question for someone else. I was born a member of the church and am fairly used to answering questions. It's been awhile since I was stumped. It seems like I shouldn't have been, the question is basic but I couldn't think of a good way to phrase an answer. I was asked about Isaiah 43:10. It says:

You are my witnesses," declares the LORD,

"and my servant whom I have chosen,

so that you may know and believe me

and understand that I am he.

Before me no god was formed,

nor will there be one after me.

She asked why that didn't contracted the LDS belief that if we live worthily we ourselves can attain godhood. Because that would mean quite a few gods in existence after Him. She was very earnest in her questioning. I felt bad that I couldn't put together an answer that would help her understand better and not confuse her more. Can you help?

The entire book of Isaiah is written as one of the most complex examples of ancient Hebrew poetry. The symbolism is truly remarkable and complex including a parallel chiasm. The particular verse that you are quoting was never meant to be understood or interpreted as a single verse but as a part of a greater whole. Specifically Isaiah is referencing idols that are formed and made by the hands of men.

In essence Isaiah is telling us that the idols made by the hands of men do not exist in eternity like the G-d of Israel. Before there were any idols, G-d reined in the heavens and after all such idols are lost and destroyed that the G-d of Israel will still be in his place.

The Traveler

[bmy-]

We are co-eternal with God. Neither of us had a 'beginning' and neither of us shall have an end.

No gods can be formed before or after.. because we're co-eternal.

[rameumptom]

The problem is in trying to understand the verse without understanding the ancient belief system.

Anciently, along with other Middle Eastern nations, the Israelites were not monotheists. They believed in a divine Council, led by El Elyon (God the Almighty/Highest) with his divine sons. He divided up the earth to his sons to reign over. The nation of Israel, his jewel, was given to Yahweh/Jehovah.

Over the centuries, these divine sons sought to overthrow one another. Next door among the Canaanites, the god Yam was overthrown by Baal. Jehovah was stating that unlike with the Canaanites, there was no God before him (previous to him, as with Baal), and there would be no God to take his place or be after him (as with Yam).

We can see how this divine council's fight continued through the Bible, as Job mentions it in Job 1. We see several of the sons of God/El Elyon go with Satan (re: Adversary), who was also one of the divine sons at one point, go to challenge Jehovah for domination of Israel. Job becomes the test.

Later in Biblical theology, Jehovah expands beyond the borders of Israel to include the Jews in Babylonia during the Diaspora. And eventually, he overthrows the other divine sons and becomes God of all the earth, under El Elyon.

So, yes, there are other gods. There just are no other gods that precede Jehovah nor any that will replace him as God of Israel.