Intelligence vs Intelligence

[Snow]

We are intelligent and we all have an eternal intelligence.

What's the difference?

[lattelady]

What does that mean? "we all have an eternal intelligence"? Sorry for my ignorance. Does it have to do with the preexistance?

[Snow]

Intelligences - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

[Snow]

Looks like I need to set it up a bit better...

Joseph Smith obviously knew a bit about it but I cannot grasp very well what it all meant. I am looking for understanding, not trying to make a point. Here are the relevant verses that introduce the issue and that do not sufficiently (for me) explain what it all means:

DC 93:29

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

DC 93:30

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

DC 93:36

36 The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth.

DC 130:18

18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.

DC 130:19

19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.

Abraham 3:21

21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.

Abraham 3:22

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

[TheAngelPalmoni]

Snow,

How are you doing? Sounds like you've been really pondering the whole intelligence thing... What have you come up with? Anything new? You've got all the scriptures down there for sure. Do you think that intelligences are the Light of Truth, and that the Light of Truth encompasses the Light of Christ, Spirit of Christ, and the Holy Ghost. So the Holy Ghost is an intelligence?

www.angelpalmoni.com

[Snow]

Snow,

How are you doing? Sounds like you've been really pondering the whole intelligence thing... What have you come up with? Anything new? You've got all the scriptures down there for sure. Do you think that intelligences are the Light of Truth, and that the Light of Truth encompasses the Light of Christ, Spirit of Christ, and the Holy Ghost. So the Holy Ghost is an intelligence?

www.angelpalmoni.com

Doing well thanks.

I don't really know what's the deal with the "intelligences" thing. He seems to be talking about man's eternal essence and refers to it as light and truth but then I wonder if that is not somehow connected to our intelligence or knowledge acumen and that gaining more in this world is interconnected to our eternal essence and somehow, both are the glory of God.

Clueless in California.

[Gatorman]

Then, the question is what 'intelligence' do we need to gain for our progressing? Do you believe that we need to understand black holes, dark matter, and which came first hominid or dinosaurs? Or, do you think that the intelligence we need to gain to progress on an eternal path is understanding of ourself, understanding of our Savior, knowledge of the scriptures in total, and knowledge of the Spirit?

I would take a look at what we are taught are important for salvation and guess that any intelligence that is beneficial to our salvation is intelligence of our Heavenly Father and the plan of salvation.

[Hemidakota]

External intelligence? Where is this reference? The only eternal force that drives us men/women that I am aware of is 'Intelligence', which is the govern force behind a spirit body.

[sixpacktr]

Could the difference come simply from our use of the word 'intelligence' for smarts, and that the way the Lord uses it to describe us in our pre-spirit body state (one of 'light and truth)? Perhaps there simply wasn't a word for Joseph to use to describe us in that existence, and intellegence was the one most close to it?

We are all still intelligences, clothed in a spiritual and now a mortal body. We can increase our smarts here on the earth during this lifetime, but does that necessarily increase our intellegence self?

[Seminarysnoozer]

Looks like I need to set it up a bit better...

Joseph Smith obviously knew a bit about it but I cannot grasp very well what it all meant. I am looking for understanding, not trying to make a point. Here are the relevant verses that introduce the issue and that do not sufficiently (for me) explain what it all means:

(*laughing at the "knew a bit") Haha, he knew more than he even shared with us. To understand "Intelligence" you have to first have a good grasp of the concept that we can develop ourselves and eventually become like God. And that His glory is tied into our development and successes just like when my son gets an A on his report card, I feel that happiness even though I did not receive the A myself. He tries to teach us that by having family here on earth, then one better appreciates the glory of God and His purposes. "Intelligence" when used in discussing the gospel is, in part, the measurable part of spiritual growth or in other context the level of spiritual development attained.

[Hemidakota]

True...considering the english language is very corrupt. It still lingers how does intellgience progress. Did we simple start as a single basic atom and then created in the image of GOD or what is given as a model in the first couple of chapters in Genesis?

[Seminarysnoozer]

True...considering the english language is very corrupt. It still lingers how does intellgience progress. Did we simple start as a single basic atom and then created in the image of GOD or what is given as a model in the first couple of chapters in Genesis?

That hasn't been given to us. All we know is that we are spirit children of our Heavenly Father and started to develop our Intelligence before coming here. What is the very beginning of you or I as an individual intelligence we haven't been given the details of that, probably because we wouldn't understand it now and doesn't affect our task right now. Whatever the process it allows us to call God our Heavenly Father and we are literal sons and daughters of God.

[Tarnished]

I see it more as a confusion between words. Much as how certain words can mean different things. Outside of the church when the word intelligence is used it often refers to knowledge or an awareness. Inside the church I understand it to refer to a being rather than a sort of knowledge. Do I completely understand what is involved in the word intelligence as used by the church? No, as I see it a complete understanding of the word will probably be made known after the millenium. I think there are quite a few things where we really won't know exactly what it means until after we are dead.

[Hemidakota]

That hasn't been given to us. All we know is that we are spirit children of our Heavenly Father and started to develop our Intelligence before coming here. What is the very beginning of you or I as an individual intelligence we haven't been given the details of that, probably because we wouldn't understand it now and doesn't affect our task right now. Whatever the process it allows us to call God our Heavenly Father and we are literal sons and daughters of God.

US = Church. Noting there are a few prophet who witnessed the creation, including Joseph Smith.

[Gatorman]

Hmmm...I wonder if what Moses actually heard was 'God put atom in the Garden.' Not, 'God put Adam in the Garden.' Would make a HUGE difference in the evolution debate. LOL.

Would that make the Garden some primordial ooze?

[Hemidakota]

Or was the ooze pool outside the gate of the garden.

Edited October 20, 2009 by Hemidakota

[TheAngelPalmoni]

Snow,

Glad to hear you are doing well. Well there is a lot that we already know but sometimes we don't think about. Like there is a progression of intelligences behind us in progression.

take a look at this quote by Joseph Fielding Smith

“This is our explanation in regard to the Spirit of Christ, or Light of Truth, which every man receives and is guided by. Unless a man had the blessings that come from this Spirit, his mind would not be quickened; there would be no vegetation grow; the worlds would not stay in their orbits; because it is through this Spirit of Truth, this Light of Truth, according to this revelation, that all these things are done.

If we take this the way that he is saying it then intelligences in varying degrees of progression are the Light of Christ Spirit of Christ and Holy Ghost. So when it says that,

8 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.

it does not mean secular smarts or learning. Or even the proper wise application there of. IT MEANS TO INCREASE FROM THE LIGHT OF CHRIST intelligences (outside the church) To the Spirit of Christ intelligences (inside the Church) To the Fulness of the Holy Ghost intelligences (Calling and Election. Because these organizations are intelligences....

Angel Palmoni

Here is a Diagram showing the progression of intelligences within the plans of salvation

http://www.angelpalmoni.com/AngelPalmoni/View_The_Scrolls/Pages/PALMONI_files/Media/Progression%20Scroll%20FULL-3/Progression%20Scroll%20FULL-3.jpg?disposition=download

Edited October 20, 2009 by pam
Link must be in signature not in body of post

[Hemidakota]

Elder Stephen L Richards, CR, April 1938, AS, p.20

How to exercise the intelligence we possess for the attainment and utilization of knowledge is a vital matter in the interpretation and application of the Gospel, but it is one that I must pass over briefly. The Gospel places highest value upon that intelligence and knowledge which contribute most to the enduring welfare of man. "Pure knowledge" it is called in the revelation, (D&C 121:42) which defines the attributes and functions of the holy Priesthood. This pure knowledge, without which the Priesthood can not properly be administered, contemplates an understanding of the divine plan of redemption and of the principles and laws that pertain to the celestial kingdom of our Father. In all the learning of the world there is nothing of higher import for the mind of man to comprehend than the eternal principles and truths that pertain to exaltation in the presence of God. And there is no higher order of intelligence than that which enables man to perceive these glorious truths.

Since intelligence is a divine essence, it may function adequately only when recognized as divine. In that recognition faith is indispensable. Faith and knowledge constitute testimony and bring that conviction which is epitomized in the declaration, "that to know thee is eternal life." So I ask, where is the philosophy or school of thought that esteems more highly and ascribes nobler attributes to the mind and intelligence of man than does this exalted concept set forth in the new interpretation of the Gospel of Christ?

I propose as the next major phase of this new interpretation a unique and distinctive conception of the family of God. God, the Master Intelligence is the Creator and veritable Father of his children, the lesser but potentially divine intelligences who make up his family and populate his kingdom. As a kindly parent, he desires and designs the eternal welfare and happiness of his offspring. In modern revelation his purpose is clarified as never before in recorded scripture. It is the glory of God to "bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Pearl of Great Price Moses 1:39.) And, "Men are that they might have joy." (Book of Mormon II Nephi 2:25.) These are the sublime declarations revealed in latter days, forever banishing all doubt and uncertain speculation as to the place and purpose of man in the universe.

Elder Stephen L Richards, CR, April 1938, AS, p.24

In what does the joy of man consist? There are two things: first, an eternal progression in intelligence, knowledge and power that leads to perfection, even as Christ is perfect; and, second, companionship with God in his presence and in the presence of his Son.

Elder Stephen L Richards, CR, April 1938, AS, p.26

In this new revelation, through God's chosen prophet, lies the hope of the world. When true intelligence shall banish error and superstition and the family of God shall be more than a theological conception; when men shall truly aspire to the highest heaven, and the duly constituted authority of God shall be recognized and esteemed, then, and not until then, will the long-desired peace of Christ descend upon the nations. God grant the early coming of that day! Amen.

Elder John A. Widtsoe, CR, April 1938, 2nd —MS, p.50

True, we have been commanded to seek all knowledge; the Lord has also said that "it is impossible to be saved in ignorance", and that "If a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come." However, it is equally true that the gaining of knowledge is but a first necessary step in a progressive life. Knowledge must be quickened and made alive by proper use.

[Seminarysnoozer]

US = Church. Noting there are a few prophet who witnessed the creation, including Joseph Smith.

Right. That's why I said in my first post of this thread that JS knows more than even he has shared with us.

[lattelady]

Do you consider intelligence to be the same as knowledge?

[Hemidakota]

Elder Albert E. Bowen, CR, April 1951, AS, p.123

Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come. (D. & C. 130:18-19.)

Intelligence has been interpreted as the ability to comprehend and respond to light and truth. But it is clear from what has been quoted that knowledge and intelligence are congenial companions; and moreover, that to achieve them requires industry, study, diligence, and obedience. Their acquisition is governed by the universal law of reward for effort. They do not come as gratuitous bestowals upon the idler or the indifferent.

[TheAngelPalmoni]

No I don't, in the gospel intelligence has nothing to do with worldly knowledge. It has to do with Magnifying whatever stage on intelligence you are in. If you are out of the CHurch it is the Light of Christ, telling you right from wrong and that will bring you to the church. If you are in the chruch it is the Spirit of Christ intelligence, keeping the commandments and fulfuilling your responcibilities and keeping your covenants. And all that will eventually lead you drop by drop to recieve the Fulness of the Holy Ghost which is considered Wisdom, Charity, Power of the Father, Calling and Election. And whatever level of intelligence you attain in this life shall rise with you in the next.

[Hemidakota]

I believe she was referring to the gospel knowledge and not the world. This is why I have stopped back in 2005, measurement of humanity academic achievement as most knowledgeable. It matters not what is learned through the merits of man-made knowledge when it will be replaced by eternal truths.

I still however, believe and teach education is cradle to grave but not to place importunacy on such when it contradicts eternal truths.

I have a compilation draft book form titled “Intelligence Footnotes” from conference talks. It is amazing when you read them, how the brethren thoughts changed over time. :)

[Seminarysnoozer]

I think knowledge also is important, it has to do with awareness. Intelligence can spiritually create but the goal is knowledge that the plan was actually carried out. "To bring to pass..." is the knowledge or awareness of it being completed. If God only had to create it spiritually, knowing of the potential and ability to see all time then He could have stopped right there, but there is apparently a glory attached to carrying out the plan, 'to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.' I think of that as knowledge as opposed to intelligence. Knowledge requires experience.

[Hemidakota]

It reminds of Cleon S. talk about the atonement when he asked the question on intelligences to his former mentor, Widtsoe. What was given and learned over a space of time from his mission return, our mortal soul is comprised of collection of myriad of intelligences but the ‘I AM' or me, still reign over them all, having absolute rule or final voice.

It seem rational to think so after observing some startling evidence when in the lab, combing live rat neurons, they simply adapt to the silicon chip surface and began to interface with the device and without the aid of human intervention. As I now believe every neuron contains its own unique intelligence and may band together as a collective – serving one purpose in unity – in progressing to the ultimate goal.

Knowledge I believe is instructed and gain at each level of progression throughout our eternal journey.

In looking back to the past of our own Creator, Prophet Joseph Smith concept of a personal God have taught that God Himself was once a son-literally, so to speak-in the family of the Gods. He says:

"I want to reason a little on this subject. I learned it by translating the papyrus (probably of the Book of Abraham) which is now in my house. I learned a testimony concerning Abraham, and he reasoned concerning the God of heaven, 'In order to do that,' said he, 'suppose we have two facts; that supposes another fact may exist-two men on the earth, one wiser than the other, would logically show that another who is wiser than the wisest may exist. Intelligences exist one above another, so that there is no end to them.'

"If Abraham reasoned thus-if Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John (doubtless, the Revelator) discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly, hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it." (H.C., VI, 476)

Edited October 20, 2009 by Hemidakota