Prodigal_Son Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I've been researching for hours, looking for a reference to when this ordinance was established. We know that it existed at Christ's time; and we know that Peter was given the Keys of Sealing... But did Christ institute the practice? Or was it a component of the Mosaic Law that was lost to history? Just looking for some definitive explanation, if it exists. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Good question. I'd say it was instituted shortly after Christ's death and resurrection. I'd wager it was part of what He taught His apostles during His on and off 40 day ministry to them after His death. When Christ died He entered the spirit world and bridged the gap between Paradise and Prison so that a teaching effort could commense to those who died not having accepted Christ. It seems there was little need to baptize for the dead before that time if there was no teaching effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 True since there had been no resurrection until Christ was the first resurrected. If he had not resurrected no need for any kind of baptism. Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Baptism was not instituted at the time of Christ. It was practiced prior to his Birth by the Nephites (1 Nephi 20), and evidence of baptisms (sacred washings) was done by Jews prior to Christ's appearance (Isaiah 48). They may have been a symbol of what was to come and may have had a different understanding of the purpose, but the practice or some similar practice did exist. As for Baptism for the Dead. I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubaloth Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I'm not sure if bytebear meant there was no Baptism before Christ?As far as I know the LDS believe there has always been Baptism. We learn in Moses I think Chapter 6 could be 5 of how Adam was baptised. So the practice was around, but as bytebear points out is pretty much lost in the Old Testament. As far as baptism for the dead we don't know for sure when it started in the Bible. It Happen after Christ had visited spirit world. What I have always learned is Christ set up some missionary program for spirits to visit those in spirit world. To what extent they in Bible times had Baptism for the dead we don't know. We do know more about when it was started in the Latter Days. I don't want to derail this thread, but I often wonder, because there was no temple work done prior to Christ's death that pretty much means everybody that died before Christ didn't have the Gospel needs there Temple work done. (Correct?). What I'm wondering is what is taught? Those at that time lived the law of Moses (that was the law over the earth for a good Chunk of time). So are people taught the law they would have had during there earth life? Or the current teaching (ie, higher law). Are those that died with Law of Moses required to take out there endoments (which I assume wasn't practiced until after Christs ressurection)?Just wondering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 As far as I know the LDS believe there has always been Baptism. Good point Tubaloth. Can you imagine all those people in the Indus, Huang, Nile and Fertile Crescent river valleys and areas not practicing baptism with all that life sustaining water? If I were living on one of those ancient Aegean islands, then I would go swimming every morning. The Aegean Bishop would see me and baptism would not be far behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) Re the O.P.: A dispensation where the Melchizedek Priesthood is generally lacking, logically, would not be able to administer any temple ordinances including (as I understand it) baptism for the dead. I don't want to derail this thread, but I often wonder, because there was no temple work done prior to Christ's death that pretty much means everybody that died before Christ didn't have the Gospel needs there Temple work done. (Correct?).I wouldn't be quite so sweeping. The Mosaic dispensation didn't include an endowment (as we understand the term). But what of the preceding dispensations of Adam, Enoch, Noah, and Abraham? They certainly did.Those at that time lived the law of Moses (that was the law over the earth for a good Chunk of time). We may want to be careful about placing undue emphasis on the law of Moses here. The Mosaic dispensation lacked the M.P. (with some exceptions), but that was only one of seven dispensations lasting around thirteen hundred years of the earth's (recorded, as far as the Gospel is concerned) seven-thousand year history.So are people taught the law they would have had during there earth life? Or the current teaching (ie, higher law). Are those that died with Law of Moses required to take out there endoments (which I assume wasn't practiced until after Christs ressurection)?We're taught that the temple endowment, along with baptism et al., are "saving ordinances". If they're necessary for those who lived after the Great Apostasy (when the endowment had been lost), why wouldn't they be necessary for those who lived after the apostasy that resulted in the loss of the endowment after Abraham's day? Edited November 9, 2009 by Just_A_Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal_Son Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 The Jews used their Mikvehs for ritual cleansing. Whether that was meant as a baptismal rite, I can't say. Perhaps it once was, but the tradition was lost. But it's easier just to point to John the Baptist as a predecessor of Christ who was incorporating the ordinance in Jewish culture. But I'm just interested in Baptism for the Dead right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I'm thinking Nephi's modifications to Isaiah insert a reference to baptism. Can't recall exactly where, though. Isn't there also a scripture out there that says the Israelites under Moses were baptized in the Red Sea? Nephi obviously knew about baptism--see, e.g., 2 Nephi 31. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 But I'm just interested in Baptism for the Dead right now... There was and continues to be ceremonies that disinter the dead to honor, celebrate and let them see what is going on topside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal_Son Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 There was and continues to be ceremonies that disinter the dead to honor, celebrate and let them see what is going on topside.So are you suggesting I use a Ouiji Board to get my answer? Not sure I'd get the truth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 So are you suggesting I use a Ouiji Board to get my answer? If you do try this, might be handy to have a baptismal font on standby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I been wondering about the non israelites who lived before Christ. Was there any babtizement for the dead before Jesus Christ for them? They were not babtized or had lost their preasthood earlier... I believe they believed the same as everyone in the beginning loosing their faith and customs after a while when mooving all over the Earth. Only the Judish were chosen as the bearers of the true faith in God. But how is it with the rest? Everyone does finally come from Noas family anyway... or could there be strangers on the earth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 My point didn't have anything to do with baptism of the living. I was speaking about the gulf that existed between Paradise and Prison in the Spirit World before Christ died. When He went to the Spirit World He bridged the gap so those in Paradise could teach those in Prison. Before that gap was bridged, it seems rather pointless to have baptism for the dead. That's all I meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal_Son Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Before that gap was bridged, it seems rather pointless to have baptism for the dead.I can see that perspective; but I also wonder if God, knowing the beginning from the end, would have allowed an "early start" program - what with how epic a task it will be to play catch-up.Maybe that's why the Millennium will last 1,000 years - that's how long it'll take to get the work done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyRudick Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Maybe that's why the Millennium will last 1,000 years - that's how long it'll take to get the work done.Exactly:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.