Heaven or Planet?

[curtishouse]

Hey everybody,

I'm having a little difficulty understanding the process after our death here on earth. The way I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong in any way, is that we die and are then given the chance to hear the Gospel if we haven't already.

After that, according to our works (and I'm assuming relationship with Christ), we go to one of three Heavens, correct?

Well I've heard that y'all believe that if we are good enough, we can achieve Godness and become Gods of our own planet. When exactly does that occur? Also please could you cite your sources from the Bible, BofM, D&C, or The Pearl of Great Price. I'm just trying to get this all straight because it seems like a pretty big thing to understand correctly. :) Thanks!

[pam]

Heyyyyy one question at a time here. lol

[curtishouse]

Heyyyyy one question at a time here. lol

Heyyyyy Pam...No need to hurry on this thread...If you're focusing on an awesome response in the other thread, by all means start there :) I hope you got some sleep.

[pam]

I'm having a little difficulty understanding the process after our death here on earth. The way I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong in any way, is that we die and are then given the chance to hear the Gospel if we haven't already.

This would be correct. We believe that to receive one of the highest degrees of glory that we must be baptized by one who has the authority to do this.

That being said, we also believe that when the physical body dies, the spirit continues to live on. All go to a place called the spirit world. Here those that have never had the opportunity to learn of Christ and His plan have that opportunity. Here they also have the opportunity to accept or reject this plan.

That's where our temples come into play. Those worthy can enter the temple to do baptisms by proxy for those that have passed on.

[tubaloth]

The way I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong in any way, is that we die and are then given the chance to hear the Gospel if we haven't already.

Yep, Pam explained this very well.

After that, according to our works (and I'm assuming relationship with Christ), we go to one of three Heavens, correct?

For the most part yes. But Three Heavens can be confusing (to lds). There are three Kingdoms of Glory, but also in the Celestial Kingdom (the best Kingdom) there are also three levels. So I kind of view the phrase by Paul talking about the Celestail Kingdom having three levels.

Well I've heard that y'all believe that if we are good enough, we can achieve Godness and become Gods of our own planet. When exactly does that occur?

If it does occur its not for a long long time. Its not until after you die, are judged and gain recived the highest degree in the Celestial Kingdom. You have to get to that point, after that we don't know how long.

Also please could you cite your sources from the Bible, BofM, D&C, or The Pearl of Great Price.

There are hints in different scriptures of us becoming Like God. How far you take that likeness can be inturptrated differently. The main section I know talks about this is Section 132 of the D&C. Its a tough section even for LDS members to understand (Its talking about Eternal Marrage, how really how that works given different laws people try to follow).

I didn't fully understand it until I read some commentary on it that helped point out the different sections. Its also kind of tough because it does talk about Poglamy. Thats not really what the section is about, its about eternal marrage.

[bytebear]

Topical Guide: Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father

[Misshalfway]

Becoming gods and getting our own planets. Again....deep doctrinal water here. Murky water.

I think it might be important to understand that these ideas are NOT what we focus on in our Sunday school lessons. We focus rather on the highest degree of the celestial kingdom and living correctly and giving our lives to Christ so that those blessings can be ours. There are some scriptures that start to explain the nature of the best blessings. But the scriptural descriptions aren't detailed enough for any of us to answer the question specifically. We know a little. We know it will be really cool and beyond our current ability to comprehend.

Romans 8:17 Talks about becoming joint heirs with Christ. How can that be? Many other NT scriptures talk about receiving an inheritance....an inheritance to sit down with God and inherit His very kingdom. And apparently that inheritance will also be a fullness of joy. We are also taught that there are many mansions - apparently enough for anyone who would choose to come to Christ and become perfected in him and that they will be crowned with glory.

D&C Section 132 teaches that in this state of exhaltation that "Then they shall become gods, because they have no end." The reference to "gods" is given with a little g. And all the other kingdoms have progression within them but not eternal progression. Their limits are set. So, really becoming a "god" is NOT taking over the power of the almighty, but to receive the inheritance which is explained in part to us as not having an end. Damnation by definition is that progression of something or someone is stopped permanently. So heaven is eternal progression and damnation is not being able to progress. Becoming a god is more like being crowned by the king. Well done my good and faithful servant and all that. The Father wants to give his children all that he has. I think when we say 'become a god" it alarms people. But if Father's inheritance is understood as godhood or eternal progression or continuing on, then maybe the term wouldn't be so alarming. I hope. :)

Edited November 9, 2009 by Misshalfway

[Moksha]

Well I've heard that y'all believe that if we are good enough, we can achieve Godness and become Gods of our own planet. !

I think President Hinckley tried to avoid the adding of further layers to this speculation when he said that "we don't really know much about that".

[curtishouse]

This would be correct. We believe that to receive one of the highest degrees of glory that we must be baptized by one who has the authority to do this.

Okay I'm following you on that.

That being said, we also believe that when the physical body dies, the spirit continues to live on. All go to a place called the spirit world. Here those that have never had the opportunity to learn of Christ and His plan have that opportunity. Here they also have the opportunity to accept or reject this plan.

I understand that as well. You'd have to be pretty stubborn to reject the Gospel at that point! LOL

That's where our temples come into play. Those worthy can enter the temple to do baptisms by proxy for those that have passed on.

How does one know if they're worthy or not?

[pam]

There is a worthiness interview that the Bishop will give a person. The only way into a temple even to do the baptisms requires what we call a temple recommend. There is a set of questions the Bishop asks to determine worthiness.

[curtishouse]

Becoming gods and getting our own planets. Again....deep doctrinal water here. Murky water.

Just like the water in my area; all I seem to find is murky water LOL

I think it might be important to understand that these ideas are NOT what we focus on in our Sunday school lessons. We focus rather on the highest degree of the celestial kingdom and living correctly and giving our lives to Christ so that those blessings can be ours. There are some scriptures that start to explain the nature of the best blessings. But the scriptural descriptions aren't detailed enough for any of us to answer the question specifically. We know a little. We know it will be really cool and beyond our current ability to comprehend.

How does the LDS church define "giving our lives to Christ" though? It will be interesting to see how that differs from the Protestant view of it.

Damnation by definition is that progression of something or someone is stopped permanently.

Damnation according to the Strong's Concordance is:

G2920

κρίσις

krisis

kree'-sis

(Subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension a tribunal; by implication justice (specifically divine law): - accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.

Also, from looking on the online dictionary, the definition of damnation is:

1. The act of damning or the condition of being damned.

2.

a. Condemnation to everlasting punishment; doom.

b. Everlasting punishment.

3. Failure or ruination incurred by adverse criticism.

Where did your definition of damnation come from? Just curious.

But if Father's inheritance is understood as godhood or eternal progression or continuing on, then maybe the term wouldn't be so alarming. I hope. :)

The term really doesn't alarm me much at all. Just like with my physical dad, it doesn't matter how much I progress, when it comes down to it, my Heavenly Father will still be just that regardless.

[curtishouse]

There is a worthiness interview that the Bishop will give a person. The only way into a temple even to do the baptisms requires what we call a temple recommend. There is a set of questions the Bishop asks to determine worthiness.

Do you know much about these questions? I'm not asking for specifics or anything...Just in the general vicinity of what they're pertaining to?

[pam]

Things like...do you follow the law of chastity? Do you pay a full tithing? Do you keep the word of wisdom? Do you support and sustain the leaders of the Church? Things along that line.

[pam]

Here ya go:

1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other oblgations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?

Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

[bytebear]

Those questions are for temple worship. The baptismal interview is a little less complicated. But it generally follows the same pattern which is: Do you have a testimony of Jesus Christ. Do you believe this to be His true church? Are you prepared to live the gospel by attending church regularly, keeping the law of chastity, willing to pay tithing, adhere to the word of wisdom, accept callings even if it's nursery leader and you hate kids? that kind of thing.

[curtishouse]

Things like...do you follow the law of chastity? Do you pay a full tithing? Do you keep the word of wisdom? Do you support and sustain the leaders of the Church? Things along that line.

This should be pretty easy LOLLL...What exactly is the law of chastity? How much is a full tithing? What's the Word of Wisdom and can I read it somewhere online? How do you sustain the leaders of the church? Safe to say, that whole post confused me LOL

[pam]

Chastity is sexual purity. Those who are chaste are morally clean in their thoughts, words, and actions. Chastity means not having any sexual relations before marriage. It also means complete fidelity to husband or wife during marriage.

Tithing is considered 10% of your increase.

The Word of Wisdom is a law of health revealed by the Lord for the physical and spiritual benefit of His children. On February 27, 1833, as recorded in section 89 of the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord revealed which foods are good for us to eat and which substances are not good for the human body. He also promised health, protection, knowledge, and wisdom to those who obey the Word of Wisdom.

In our general conferences held twice a year, we raise our hands and sustain the leaders of the church. Meaning that we will support and follow them.

The quoted are taken from lds.org.

[curtishouse]

Tithing is considered 10% of your increase.

In our general conferences held twice a year, we raise our hands and sustain the leaders of the church. Meaning that we will support and follow them.

The quoted are taken from lds.org.

I thought that the 10% tithing was what you were commanded to give during the Law?

Is there a NT ordinance to continue giving the 10% or is that what just is recommended in the LDS church? The only NT scripture I know of concerning tithing is this...

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Another good verse when considering tithing is this...

2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Edited November 9, 2009 by curtishouse
added another verse

[pam]

Here is a great talk about tithing:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Law of Tithing

Also the subject of tithing has been discussed numerous times:

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/21758-lds-net-references-tithing.html

[curtishouse]

Here is a great talk about tithing:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Law of Tithing

Also the subject of tithing has been discussed numerous times:

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/21758-lds-net-references-tithing.html

Thanks for those links...I don't see it as 10% being mandatory (if that is what the LDS church believes) but we are to be cheerful givers and to give as you feel you are being blessed by Heavenly Father. I could always change my mind on that if an understanding through the Scriptures were shown to me. 10 cents on every dollar seems like a small amount though when it comes to the Creator of everything and knowing that without Him, we have nothing.

[pam]

This is what it says at lds.org concerning tithing:

The Bible indicates that God’s people followed the law of tithing anciently; through modern prophets, God restored this law once again to bless His children. To fulfill this commandment, Church members give one-tenth of their income to the Lord through His Church. These funds are used to build up the Church and further the work of the Lord throughout the world.

[curtishouse]

This is what it says at lds.org concerning tithing:

Is this talked about in the D&C, BofM, or anywhere else?

[pam]

I'm looking. I'm trying to remember off the top of my head a little church history here. I believe the law of tithing was once again set up through revelation by one of our past prophets Lorenzo Snow. I could be wrong. I'm trying to find it.

[pam]

Doctrine and Covenants 119

Here is one thing I found from the Doctrine and Covenants. Specifically verse 4 which mentions 1/10.

[curtishouse]

Doctrine and Covenants 119

Here is one thing I found from the Doctrine and Covenants. Specifically verse 4 which mentions 1/10.

Thanks for that...Let's just add it on here as well...

And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord. - D&C 119:4

What does it mean by paying all their interest though?