Guest Member_Deleted Posted October 16, 2005 Report Posted October 16, 2005 at the speed of light.. time almost stands still... if you get on the other side of the light in motion... you are watching time expand... down the isles of eons.... and God sits at that point at which light begins... and moves... Quote
Paul Osborne Posted October 16, 2005 Report Posted October 16, 2005 That's a nice thought. Everything with God is as one eternal now – he sees the entire future all at one time. The future to God is just as real to him as it is before it unfolds. Everything has already happened. You and I died a long time ago and are living eternally. God sees it all. Paul O Quote
Guest Member_Deleted Posted October 17, 2005 Report Posted October 17, 2005 Originally posted by Paul Osborne@Oct 16 2005, 05:41 PMThat's a nice thought.Everything with God is as one eternal now – he sees the entire future all at one time. The future to God is just as real to him as it is before it unfolds. Everything has already happened. You and I died a long time ago and are living eternally. God sees it all.Paul O←Like a star... that has burned out... but we still see it... Quote
Snow Posted October 17, 2005 Report Posted October 17, 2005 Originally posted by Paul Osborne@Oct 16 2005, 03:41 PMEverything with God is as one eternal now – he sees the entire future all at one time. The future to God is just as real to him as it is before it unfolds. Everything has already happened. You and I died a long time ago and are living eternally. God sees it all.Paul O←That's a good orthodox Christian thought - that God stands outside of space and time - but it's not a Mormon thought. In Mormonism, God is part of time and part of space. He moves through time as do we. There was a past, there is a now and they will be a future. Quote
Guest Member_Deleted Posted October 17, 2005 Report Posted October 17, 2005 Originally posted by Snow+Oct 16 2005, 08:36 PM--><!--QuoteBegin-Paul Osborne@Oct 16 2005, 03:41 PMEverything with God is as one eternal now – he sees the entire future all at one time. The future to God is just as real to him as it is before it unfolds. Everything has already happened. You and I died a long time ago and are living eternally. God sees it all.Paul O←That's a good orthodox Christian thought - that God stands outside of space and time - but it's not a Mormon thought. In Mormonism, God is part of time and part of space. He moves through time as do we. There was a past, there is a now and they will be a future.←Actually in this light... I would have to say that the view was all I was talking about... Here is the full perspective...D&C 88: 12 12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space— Quote
Paul Osborne Posted October 17, 2005 Report Posted October 17, 2005 God lives in the moment but he sees and comprehends all eternity. His capabilities are far beyond our ability to comprehend. Can you imagine having to get in line with billions of his children just to spend a little time with him? No so. God can split time into the minutest fractions and spend time with all of his children. Exalted beings operate on a different plane. I believe the Lord sees the entire future but at the same time he lives in time. Can you say there is something the Lord doesn’t know about the future? Paul O Quote
Guest Member_Deleted Posted October 17, 2005 Report Posted October 17, 2005 Originally posted by Paul Osborne@Oct 17 2005, 08:13 AMGod lives in the moment but he sees and comprehends all eternity. His capabilities are far beyond our ability to comprehend. Can you imagine having to get in line with billions of his children just to spend a little time with him? No so. God can split time into the minutest fractions and spend time with all of his children. Exalted beings operate on a different plane.I believe the Lord sees the entire future but at the same time he lives in time. Can you say there is something the Lord doesn’t know about the future?Paul O←I don't believe God lives in time as we understand it... though in Abraham we are taught that a day to Him is like a thousand years in our time....I believe God sees the furture because it before Him as is the past... it is kind of like having the gift of discernment magnified a zillion percent.... and why not... He is God... Spoiritual eyes see so much more than physical eyes... we can't even comprehend it... Quote
Setheus Posted October 17, 2005 Report Posted October 17, 2005 Here is another possiblity. He knows all because His divine communication skills are ...."godly". He knows our thoughts....He knows perfectly physics....He knows His own plan and how He has set things into motion. If I could see through your eyes as you stood in another room of a house than me I would not have to be in both places to know what is happening in both places. I could use the information I recieve from you and the information I recieve from myself and have knowledge of both rooms and what is going on. Now, instead of just seeing through your eyes....God sees through everyones' eyes,ear,smell,taste,touch,experience,memories,dreams,hopes,prayers.... That doesnt explain knowing the future but its a good start I think. Quote
Serg Posted October 17, 2005 Report Posted October 17, 2005 I agree with most of the posts, but as to the one before me... Does that sort of thinking leads us to say that IF NO one is in a room, there are no eyes from which God could get informed, and hence cant see what is in there? Dont think so... Time as WE know it, is an invention FOR man. Although i agree that God not only sees TIME and SPACE totally but dwells in it, i understand that there is so much to see, and know, that we are only grasping the borders of His ways.... i mean...how can you decribe "infinity" or Eternity? No "finite" mind cand produce an infinite"comprehention"if not Through God himself. It is so wonderful to contemplate the inmensity of what we yet dont know that it's worth a lifetime only thinking about it...even if people didnt get to ever understand it. But we know we will...just as HE has... Its something very hard to reconcile because of antropomorphic ideas of God, (with which i agree totally), but one thing i heard in a movie(mothman prophecies), when the guy asked if these "beings"were as us or were "absolutely"powerful...the other man said, "do you see the man in that building?(a man in a 10th floor window) The man said yes. The other one said: If a car crash occured, three streets ahead of this one, WE being in the mere street, would not see it(maybe hear it), but that man may see it, BECAUSE OF HIS POSITION...but that does'nt mean that he has in his own a capability of more excellence for he is a person just like us..." Now, the lord said to Abraham , These two facts exist, there are two spirits, one above the other, there will be more above the two of them(as well as below)...(again) two spirits, one more intelligent than the other.... I am the Lord your God, I am more intelligent than all of them... So God by some means we yet dont know...can know and BE above everything and yet WITHIN it...as the man in the window...above the streets but IN the streets... How is that possible...we dont know....YET. But mostly i agree with your reasonings and like them.... Thanks.. "To forgive is...to be right again." Quote
Paul Osborne Posted October 17, 2005 Report Posted October 17, 2005 Jesus prophesied that Peter would deny him before the rooster would crow three times. The Spirit foresaw this in crystal clarity. The prophets in vision saw Jesus lifted up on a cross hundreds of years before it ever happened. Eternity is as one moment to the mind of God and yet he lives from day to day in his own sphere. Our Heavenly Father’s Father saw all things long before our Father became a God. There never was a time when an Almighty God didn't know all things because there are an infinite number of Fathers going back forever. Paul O Quote
Guest Member_Deleted Posted October 17, 2005 Report Posted October 17, 2005 Originally posted by Serg@Oct 17 2005, 01:38 PMI agree with most of the posts, but as to the one before me... Does that sort of thinking leads us to say that IF NO one is in a room, there are no eyes from which God could get informed, and hence cant see what is in there? Dont think so... Time as WE know it, is an invention FOR man. Although i agree that God not only sees TIME and SPACE totally but dwells in it, i understand that there is so much to see, and know, that we are only grasping the borders of His ways.... i mean...how can you decribe "infinity" or Eternity? No "finite" mind cand produce an infinite"comprehention"if not Through God himself. It is so wonderful to contemplate the inmensity of what we yet dont know that it's worth a lifetime only thinking about it...even if people didnt get to ever understand it. But we know we will...just as HE has... Its something very hard to reconcile because of antropomorphic ideas of God, (with which i agree totally), but one thing i heard in a movie(mothman prophecies), when the guy asked if these "beings"were as us or were "absolutely"powerful...the other man said, "do you see the man in that building?(a man in a 10th floor window) The man said yes. The other one said: If a car crash occured, three streets ahead of this one, WE being in the mere street, would not see it(maybe hear it), but that man may see it, BECAUSE OF HIS POSITION...but that does'nt mean that he has in his own a capability of more excellence for he is a person just like us..." Now, the lord said to Abraham , These two facts exist, there are two spirits, one above the other, there will be more above the two of them(as well as below)...(again) two spirits, one more intelligent than the other.... I am the Lord your God, I am more intelligent than all of them... So God by some means we yet dont know...can know and BE above everything and yet WITHIN it...as the man in the window...above the streets but IN the streets... How is that possible...we dont know....YET. But mostly i agree with your reasonings and like them.... Thanks.. "To forgive is...to be right again."←I believe section 88 of the D&C clears a lot of this up... because He is the light and is in and around all things...That doesn't seem so hard for me to understand when I look how light prevades everything around it... perfectly defining everything it touches... just magnify that process with a devine light... which would be so much more able to define everything it touches.... or prevades.... I would think it would be like the difference between a doctor being able to give you a physical exam... but using the new technology of the body scan... to know almost everything... Quote
Guest Member_Deleted Posted October 17, 2005 Report Posted October 17, 2005 Originally posted by Setheus@Oct 17 2005, 11:30 AMHere is another possiblity. He knows all because His divine communication skills are ...."godly". He knows our thoughts....He knows perfectly physics....He knows His own plan and how He has set things into motion.If I could see through your eyes as you stood in another room of a house than me I would not have to be in both places to know what is happening in both places. I could use the information I recieve from you and the information I recieve from myself and have knowledge of both rooms and what is going on. Now, instead of just seeing through your eyes....God sees through everyones' eyes,ear,smell,taste,touch,experience,memories,dreams,hopes,prayers....That doesnt explain knowing the future but its a good start I think.←Yes it is a good start... and I have thought quite often that it is indeed through us that much is known and relayed to Him...I also know that He sends these guys in white suits... angels I think, don't know... cause three showed up in my bedroom one night... they stood there with a kind of clipboard or luceleaf notebook thing and were discussing me and my husband.... right there in front of us... Quote
Serg Posted October 17, 2005 Report Posted October 17, 2005 Again...you say that through the Spirit God sees all, but, what about before that Spirit was begotten???Dis He see all?? Quote
Traveler Posted October 17, 2005 Report Posted October 17, 2005 This happens to involve some research I did in college in connection with a quantum mechanics class. Using the same equations from which Einstein developed E = MC**(2) there are some interesting relationships that can be resolved concerning time and space (which will help explain the weirdness of quantum mechanics). This is a fun area to play around because of all the interesting theories that are involved in the fall out. For example we deal with the theories of time space continuum which all depend on time being a dimension (continuous function). This all makes for fun science fiction stuff but the problem is that time may not be a true dimension – which means it is only continuous within certain ranges. In other words we may think of time as a dimension in our defined space therefore making our space 4 dimensions. This is a most important concept when considering theories (especially the Big Bang) of creation that depend on the universe being an expanding 4 dimensional sphere outside of which there is no space or dimension. Lets deal with some of the interesting mathematical relationships in light in the equations used by Einstein. There are two things. First is that nothing can be accelerated to the speed of light let alone faster. The reason is that the energy is transformed to matter rather than increasing speed as an object of mass as it approaches the speed of light. The second problem is ignored by most of the science fiction writers; in that matter at or beyond the speed of light looses time as a dimension. In essence Einstein calculated and theorized that there is no dimensional platform in our universe to observe this motion. This is why it is said that time stands still but sanding still is not exactly true; in fact it is very misleading. One possible way to explain this phenomenon is to understand that an object at or beyond the speed of light looses time as a dimension and becomes an object in a 3 dimensional universe (parallel to ours) that lacks time. This would explain why objects are never seen going faster than the speed of light and anything at the speed of light has no mass. Any object in a strict 3 dimensional space (height, width and depth) has no relationship to time. This sounds like time is standing still but that is not quite the correct concept. The truth is that it looses time as a property that defines its existence. What this means is that because time is a dimension in our space that if an object were to reach the speed of light it would appear to vanish from a point in our space and appear somewhere else in our space in the same instant – which would be when the object slowed down from the speed of light – which it must to maintain the second law of thermal dynamics in our universe. What we have experienced and calculated using quantum mechanics is what could be the flip side of this. That is particles in the strict 3 dimensional space which for a moment slow down (oscillate at the speed of light threshold) and appear or leave traces in our 4 dimensional space then are gone. This is called a quantum anomaly. There is much more I could explain but I do not want to upset or bore the forum. My conjecture in all this is that if G-d (or for that matter anyone else) were able to take advantage of the threshold of the speed of light he could easily connect to or travel to anywhere in the universe in an instant moving objects to and from anywhere. The other fun thing is that at this threshold he would have access to any non object (such as light) at any point of time any place in our 4 dimensional space meaning we could observe all time in our universe but any object of this universe would be bound by the dimension of time regardless how it was moved through the light threshold. Therefore if G-d has a real or physical body (according to LDS theology) any movements G-d himself made in our 4 dimensional space, that orders time, would appear in this space to adhere to time as a continues function. This means that G-d could observe all time instantly in all space but could only appear physically here in singular time space events that adhere to continuity of time and space. This would also mean that time travel is really not possible. Sorry my fellow si-fi friends. Is this fun or what? The Traveler Quote
pushka Posted October 18, 2005 Report Posted October 18, 2005 ^ || This is the reason I only carried on doing Human Biology at school...the rest of Science was all Greek to me!!! Quote
Snow Posted October 18, 2005 Report Posted October 18, 2005 Originally posted by Paul Osborne@Oct 17 2005, 06:13 AMGod lives in the moment but he sees and comprehends all eternity. His capabilities are far beyond our ability to comprehend. Can you imagine having to get in line with billions of his children just to spend a little time with him? No so. God can split time into the minutest fractions and spend time with all of his children. Exalted beings operate on a different plane.I believe the Lord sees the entire future but at the same time he lives in time. Can you say there is something the Lord doesn’t know about the future?Paul O←No, but what I can say is that God is largely silent on the matter so we don't really understand what he knows of doesn't know or foresees or does not foresee. It's all find and dandy to say that God can "split time in the minutest fractions" but that's hardly a fact. It doesn't even make sense as far as I can tell. Quote
Guest Member_Deleted Posted October 18, 2005 Report Posted October 18, 2005 Originally posted by Snow+Oct 17 2005, 08:02 PM--><!--QuoteBegin-Paul Osborne@Oct 17 2005, 06:13 AMGod lives in the moment but he sees and comprehends all eternity. His capabilities are far beyond our ability to comprehend. Can you imagine having to get in line with billions of his children just to spend a little time with him? No so. God can split time into the minutest fractions and spend time with all of his children. Exalted beings operate on a different plane.I believe the Lord sees the entire future but at the same time he lives in time. Can you say there is something the Lord doesn’t know about the future?Paul O←No, but what I can say is that God is largely silent on the matter so we don't really understand what he knows of doesn't know or foresees or does not foresee. It's all find and dandy to say that God can "split time in the minutest fractions" but that's hardly a fact. It doesn't even make sense as far as I can tell.←I once had an experience with a near car accident... coming down a snowy hill... in the dark... and blizzardly condition... another car was coming up that same hill and because we couldn't see the lines on the road we ended up nearly fender to fender before we were even able to see each other...Then suddenly... there was like a warpping of the thing and within an instant or stalled stretched second... the other car and I were whipped into our proper lanes... without even turning my wheel... I didn't have time or presence of mind... we missed each other when it was impossible to do so...It was like I was seeing timed warped and stretched... in a sideward motion... I have always wondered what the other driver thought of that experience... Quote
pushka Posted October 18, 2005 Report Posted October 18, 2005 I once had an experience with a near car accident... coming down a snowy hill... in the dark... and blizzardly condition... another car was coming up that same hill and because we couldn't see the lines on the road we ended up nearly fender to fender before we were even able to see each other...Then suddenly... there was like a warpping of the thing and within an instant or stalled stretched second... the other car and I were whipped into our proper lanes... without even turning my wheel... I didn't have time or presence of mind... we missed each other when it was impossible to do so...It was like I was seeing timed warped and stretched... in a sideward motion... I have always wondered what the other driver thought of that experience...←God was driving the other car!!!! LOL... Sorry, only being facetious!!! Quote
Setheus Posted October 18, 2005 Report Posted October 18, 2005 Originally posted by Serg@Oct 17 2005, 12:38 PMI agree with most of the posts, but as to the one before me... Does that sort of thinking leads us to say that IF NO one is in a room, there are no eyes from which God could get informed, and hence cant see what is in there? ←You're forgetting that there are things called Angels that can be there...sending information. And also I think you're leaning too closely towards how Ann Rice's vapire Lestat sees through others thoughts. Dont be so litteral. We all know God isnt. I mean look at all the symbols He likes to use to teach us.Lestat: ...read her thoughts.Louis: What?Lestat: Read her thoughts.Louis: I cant.Lestat: Ah, well the dark gift is different for us all. But one things for certain. We all grow stronger as we go along. Quote
Paul Osborne Posted October 26, 2005 Report Posted October 26, 2005 Originally posted by Snow+Oct 17 2005, 07:02 PM--><!--QuoteBegin-Paul Osborne@Oct 17 2005, 06:13 AMGod lives in the moment but he sees and comprehends all eternity. His capabilities are far beyond our ability to comprehend. Can you imagine having to get in line with billions of his children just to spend a little time with him? No so. God can split time into the minutest fractions and spend time with all of his children. Exalted beings operate on a different plane.I believe the Lord sees the entire future but at the same time he lives in time. Can you say there is something the Lord doesn’t know about the future?Paul O←No, but what I can say is that God is largely silent on the matter so we don't really understand what he knows of doesn't know or foresees or does not foresee. It's all find and dandy to say that God can "split time in the minutest fractions" but that's hardly a fact. It doesn't even make sense as far as I can tell.←Snow,You don't know the power of God and you don't understand the scriptures.“His understanding is INFINITE.” (Ps 147:5)“In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.” (Col 2:3)“He knoweth all things, and there is not anything save he knows it” (2 Ne 9:20)“He has all power, all wisdom, and all understanding; he comprehendeth all things” (Alma 26:35)“The Lord knoweth all things which are to come” (W of M 1:7)“God knoweth all things, being from everlasting to everlasting” (Mor 7:21)“All things are present before mine eyes”) D&C 38:2#1"His understanding is INFINITE" (Ps 147:5)INFINITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge: (Col 2:3)ALL WISDOM--InfiniteALL KNOWLEDGE--Infinite#2"His understanding is INFINITE" (Ps 147:5)INFINITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"He knoweth ALL things, and there is not anything save he knows it" (2 Ne 9:20)ALL THINGS--InfiniteNOT EVERYTHING--Empty set#3"His understanding is INFINITE" (Ps 147:5)INFINITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"He has all power, all wisdom, and all understanding; he comprehendeth all things" (Alma 26:35)ALL--InfinitePOWER--InfiniteWISDOM--Infinite UNDERSTANDING--Infinite#4"His understanding is INFINITE" (Ps 147:5)INFINITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"The Lord knoweth ALL things which are to come"ALL--InfiniteTO COME--Infinite#5"His understanding is INFINITE" (Ps 147:5)INFINITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"God knoweth ALL things, being from everlasting to everlasting"ALL--InfiniteEverlasting--Infinite#6"His understanding is INFINITE" (Ps 147:5)INFINITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"ALL things are present before my eyes" (D&C 38:2)ALL--InfiniteMy eyes--Infinite#7GOD IS INFINITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"God in heaven who is INFINITE and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting, the same unchangable God"Paul O Quote
Snow Posted October 27, 2005 Report Posted October 27, 2005 Originally posted by Paul Osborne+Oct 26 2005, 06:27 AM-->Originally posted by Snow@Oct 17 2005, 07:02 PM<!--QuoteBegin-Paul Osborne@Oct 17 2005, 06:13 AMGod lives in the moment but he sees and comprehends all eternity. His capabilities are far beyond our ability to comprehend. Can you imagine having to get in line with billions of his children just to spend a little time with him? No so. God can split time into the minutest fractions and spend time with all of his children. Exalted beings operate on a different plane.I believe the Lord sees the entire future but at the same time he lives in time. Can you say there is something the Lord doesn’t know about the future?Paul O←No, but what I can say is that God is largely silent on the matter so we don't really understand what he knows of doesn't know or foresees or does not foresee. It's all find and dandy to say that God can "split time in the minutest fractions" but that's hardly a fact. It doesn't even make sense as far as I can tell.←Snow,You don't know the power of God and you don't understand the scriptures.“His understanding is INFINITE.” (Ps 147:5)“In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.” (Col 2:3)“He knoweth all things, and there is not anything save he knows it” (2 Ne 9:20)“He has all power, all wisdom, and all understanding; he comprehendeth all things” (Alma 26:35)“The Lord knoweth all things which are to come” (W of M 1:7)...Paul O←I know as much about the power of God and scriptures as you do so that kind of testostorone bluster doesn't work with me.The scriptures say all sorts of things that we cannot fully apprend. The BoM says there is one God but we talk about the 3 Gods of the Godhood all the time. Yes we accept that the 3 are 1 and we generally understand that to me one in purpose not ontological oneness but is hardly the same as us really understanding the full measure of how God is one and yet not one.It's dandy to say God is all powerful or all knowing. It's quite another thing to fully apprehend what that entails and how it's done and what its implications are. Quote
Paul Osborne Posted October 27, 2005 Report Posted October 27, 2005 Snow, Are you saying that God is not infinite? In case you don't know, the difference between finite and infinite is infinite. So, tell me one thing that God doesn't know. Are you able to do that? Will you tell me that there is something in the future that God doesn't know? The scriptures are clear. God is infinite and he knows everything - the end from the beginning. Paul O Quote
Setheus Posted October 27, 2005 Report Posted October 27, 2005 Well, this God of "perfect love" and "holy"ness shouldnt according to theory be able to know what it feels like to be wicked or hate or judge unrightiously....unless He'd experienced it Himself... Guess that proves As man is God once was...? Otherwise how could He know those things also? And dont say "because He created them...no he didnt. God cant create less than perfect. Look at Adam and Eve...both had to fall themself. God didnt create them in a fallen state. He couldnt have. Quote
dizzysmiles Posted October 27, 2005 Report Posted October 27, 2005 snow god doesn't use "Time" like we do. Quote
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