Conversion question (and others)

[thekabalist]

Hi forum,

In the other forum where I met Vanhin and some of the other guys I remember that there were several messages of stories of people who converted out of LDS into some other form of Christianity.

But I never got to see any stories about people who converted from some other form of Christianity into LDS. Would you kindly share your story here? :)

I also have two complementary questions: I read that the LDS consider that at some point Roman Christianity became corrupt. What exactly is considered corrupt about Roman or even Reform Christianity?

Last question: In Judaism we have a lot of problems with Pentecostals and other groups that rely heavily on emotions to gain converts to the point that there are organizations specializing in deprogramming. It's often a hard task to argue for a faith of reason over empty emotionalism. Do you have this problem as well? If so how do you deal with it?

I hope my questions aren't offensive as I have no intention of being so.

b'shalom

[LDSVALLEY]

Hi

Can't answer the first as I was never baptized before LDS, I was 30 when I joined the church.

These are short answers cause I have to leave in 10 min for work so they are not detailed and more subject to misunderstanding.

#2 When Christ died the ministry limped along for a time, note that new apostles were called after Christ left the Earth. But the ministry feel into splitter groups trying to keep things going as best they could in a day without copiers, phones, cars etc to allow for communication. Some local leaders purposely and some intentionally distorted the truth. It would have been almost impossible for things to stay on the strait and narrow path. So many different groups got big or small parts of the gospel but they could not hold onto the entire picture. Even today if it were not for the Prophets of our church we would not be able to maintain the whole fullness of the Gospel I see the misunderstandings of it from members often and Leaders must be careful to keep things on course.

#3 Some people I am sure this is a problem but we are anchored in the knowledge of the Gospel, we study it in church adn at home. Emotion does play a part, that is often how the Holy Ghost works through us but we are to study things out in our own minds. we are also to take everything to the Lord. I find for me that when I study something out the logic has to flow or it can not be from God.

Hope this helps some I got 2 minutes to get ready. Bye.

[HiJolly]

Hi forum,

In the other forum where I met Vanhin and some of the other guys I remember that there were several messages of stories of people who converted out of LDS into some other form of Christianity.

But I never got to see any stories about people who converted from some other form of Christianity into LDS. Would you kindly share your story here? :)

Here are a bunch of stories here on this site: Personal Beliefs » LDS Mormon Network. Here is one I did: Personal Beliefs » HiJolly comes clean » LDS Mormon Network

I also have two complementary questions: I read that the LDS consider that at some point Roman Christianity became corrupt. What exactly is considered corrupt about Roman or even Reform Christianity?

Too many to list here, try some of these: FAIR Topical Guide: Great Apostasy

Last question: In Judaism we have a lot of problems with Pentecostals and other groups that rely heavily on emotions to gain converts to the point that there are organizations specializing in deprogramming. It's often a hard task to argue for a faith of reason over empty emotionalism. Do you have this problem as well? If so how do you deal with it?

I hope my questions aren't offensive as I have no intention of being so.

b'shalom

No problem. I think the Church strikes a pretty good balance between rationality and emotion. Some think we are too emotional, others think we don't "have the Spirit" like we should. We have an organized leadership model that prevents too much chaos, even though we promote, encourage and practically force members to seek their own revelation and inspiration from G-d.

Some of the members that have been raised in the Church tend to be blind followers, but I am amazed at how useful the Churches teachings are for this group. If they ever want to, they can break out of it very easily (imo).

HiJolly

[Vanhin]

I also have two complementary questions: I read that the LDS consider that at some point Roman Christianity became corrupt. What exactly is considered corrupt about Roman or even Reform Christianity?

I'll take a shot at this one.

When Christ was on the earth, He organized his Church. He called 12 apostles and gave them authority to perform sacred ordinances, and to lead the Church through revelation. This priesthood authority, was after the order of Melchizedek. Others were ordained into this priesthood, and the apostles held the authority to direct the use of this priesthood. this authority to receive revelation for the Church and to direct the use of priesthood power is called priesthood keys, or keys of the kingdom.

The Church suffered much persecution, and internally, some lower level leaders became corrupt. Even members of the church began to fall into apostasy. Eventually, one by one, the apostles suffered martyrdom, except for John, the Son of Zebedee, who according to scripture was allowed to tarry until the Second Coming of Christ (Guide to the Scriptures: John, Son of Zebedee). After the loss of the apostles, the Church fell into general apostasy. There was no one left any more to guide the church through revelation, and to direct the use of the priesthood.

Though much truth survived this great apostasy, we believe that many plain an precious truths were lost, in addition to priesthood authority. This resulted, ultimately, in the formation of many Christian Churches, each with their own variations depending on how they interpret the scriptures. Without the priesthood, they did not have the authority to baptize, or to perform any other sacred ordinance. They had some truths, but so much was lost, and I think history agrees, that there were some awfully dark times, and terrible things done in the name of Christianity at times in the past. In short, the true church of Jesus Christ, was no longer on the earth.

We believe that in 1820, God the Father and Jesus Christ, appeared to Joseph Smith, in answer to his prayer about which of the many Churches he should join. Through this an other revelatory experiences, God called him to be a prophet, and restored his truth and his Church back to the earth.

John the Baptist, appeared as a resurrected being to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery, and conferred the priesthood of Aaron on them. Later, the resurrected apostles Peter, James, and John, appeared to them and restored the priesthood of Melchizedek.

Later apostles were called and ordained, and many truths, which were previously lost due to apostasy, were restored. Also, some things, that the world has not yet know, have been revealed as well. Since that time, there have been apostles, who we sustain as prophets, seers, and revelators, on the earth again, and we are preparing for the Second Coming of Christ, who we believe is the Messiah.

Something that might interest you, is what John the Baptist said to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery when he conferred the priesthood of Aaron on them.

Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness. (Joseph Smith—History 1)

Anyway, this was more than you bargained for I'm sure. Let me know if you have any questions.

Regards,

Vanhin

[Traveler]

I am a 5th generation LDS or Mormon. From my studies I think that if LDS theology had not been restored through modern prophets that I would be a Buddhist or somewhat of an agnostic. I make my living as an engineer and scientist. I am a consulting engineer in the field of automation and robotics. I have found LDS theology very logical. LDS concepts are simple and straightforward, with little magical or mystical threads running through it and at the same time with deep and intellectual corridors that are fascinating to study.

As far as other religions? We send our missionaries (mostly 19 year old boys) to teach to whoever will listen – yah they have to formulate a great threat to religious thinkers of the world. One of the tenets of Mormonism is that we believe in letting others know what we believe and encourage that they learn these beliefs mostly through our examples in our communities. And yah there are lots of poor examples out there for critics to have a “hay day” with. It is also basis to our belief to encourage all to exercise their religious beliefs according to the dictates of their own conscience. We believe in allowing all to worship G-d as they see fit.

Utah is known for Mormons but we also have the only Zen master outside of Asia as a permeate resident of the Salt Lake area and south of Salt Lake is a temple (that the Mormons helped build) that supports a community of the Society for Krishna Consciousness. For a number of years I supported a religious group (I also helped found the group) that would meet once a month at noon to discuss various religious topics – We had good representation from most religions with the exception of Judaism – we even had a couple of atheists (some Utahan’s may recognize the name of Chris Allen – the president of the Utah atheists) was part of this. Chris and I would hold public debates every so often.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Last question: In Judaism we have a lot of problems with Pentecostals and other groups that rely heavily on emotions to gain converts to the point that there are organizations specializing in deprogramming.

Am I reading this right? You have organizations that deprogram people from pentecostalism??? It's true that there can be a lot of emotion in our meetings, and that we dare believe God touches the heart and the mind. But wow...deprogramming???

BTW, my understanding about those who convert out of Judaism is that they are generally from the 85% in this country who are assimulated anway. In other words, they were Jewish by heritage, but had no real faith practice to speak of.

It's often a hard task to argue for a faith of reason over empty emotionalism. Do you have this problem as well? If so how do you deal with it?

I know this is an LDS forum, and but can this pentecostal be at least a little bit off-put by this generalization???

I hope my questions aren't offensive as I have no intention of being so.

b'shalom

Oh well...just so you know, the slogan of my pentecostal seminary was "Knowledge on Fire!" We aren't afraid of emotion--but we believe on reason and wisdom that is sound is ultimately from God.

[Vanhin]

Am I reading this right? You have organizations that deprogram people from pentecostalism??? It's true that there can be a lot of emotion in our meetings, and that we dare believe God touches the heart and the mind. But wow...deprogramming???

BTW, my understanding about those who convert out of Judaism is that they are generally from the 85% in this country who are assimulated anway. In other words, they were Jewish by heritage, but had no real faith practice to speak of.

I know this is an LDS forum, and but can this pentecostal be at least a little bit off-put by this generalization???

Oh well...just so you know, the slogan of my pentecostal seminary was "Knowledge on Fire!" We aren't afraid of emotion--but we believe on reason and wisdom that is sound is ultimately from God.

In deed, prisonchaplain, if there is any truth to the generalization, I do believe you would certainly be an exception. I have always found you to be quite reasonable. :) And, you are certainly a friend to Mormons everywhere.

At the same time, I would point out that Mormonism appeals to "feelings" as well as "intellect" as means by which the Holy ghost communicates. President Howard W. Hunter, however, had this to say about emotional manifestations:

“Let me offer a word of caution... I think if we are not careful..., we may begin to try to counterfeit the true influence of the Spirit of the Lord by unworthy and manipulative means. I get concerned when it appears that strong emotion or free-flowing tears are equated with the presence of the Spirit. Certainly the Spirit of the Lord can bring strong emotional feelings, including tears, but that outward manifestation ought not to be confused with the presence of the Spirit itself” (The Teachings of Howard W. Hunter,184).

To Oliver Cowdery, who was attempting to translate the Book of Mormon, the Lord gave the following instruction concerning revelation:

Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart. Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground. (D&C 8:2-3)

Regards,

Vanhin

[Traveler]

Am I reading this right? You have organizations that deprogram people from pentecostalism??? It's true that there can be a lot of emotion in our meetings, and that we dare believe God touches the heart and the mind. But wow...deprogramming???

BTW, my understanding about those who convert out of Judaism is that they are generally from the 85% in this country who are assimulated anway. In other words, they were Jewish by heritage, but had no real faith practice to speak of.

I know this is an LDS forum, and but can this pentecostal be at least a little bit off-put by this generalization???

Oh well...just so you know, the slogan of my pentecostal seminary was "Knowledge on Fire!" We aren't afraid of emotion--but we believe on reason and wisdom that is sound is ultimately from God.

This should not be that much of a surprise. There are significant efforts among “Evangelicals” to deprogram effects of other religious philosophies. There are websites as well as publications that target specific religions. Many times there have been posts on this forum about those that are “anti” to LDS teachings, usually they are passing trolls but it is easy to determine where they are getting coached. During the last presidential campaign there was opposition from the “religious right” that refused support of the most conservative and religious candidate – not on political principles but in direct opposition to his “Mormon” religion. At the same time there was some support but in general in districts where evangelicals exert significant political influence there was minimal support for Romney even though he was the leading candidate with religious background. How much this influenced the campaign is up for debate but there was an impact enough that many still feel that an president with LDS background is less likely to be supported than what is currently in office. Following 9/11 many communities excluded “Mormons” from a national prayer movement. When I lived in North East Tacoma there was a movement among a block of churches to bring in preachers and classes to teach congregations on how to thwart and put down LDS teachings.

There are several organizations whose workers work full time against specific religions – for example there is Ed Decker and his society (that produced the “G-d makers” literature and movies) and the Ex-Mormons for Christ group. All of these things are funded for the most part by evangelicals and evangelical organizations.

You, Prison chaplain, are the grand exception. But as a Prison Chaplain you are required to support and help LDS (as well as all other in any religion) that are in the prison system and immersing yourself or indulging in any anti religious efforts or movements could cost you your job and current livelihood. That would be a great loss – not only to the prison system you serve but to society in general.

If we were to google “Christian Jews” I would suspect we would discover several organizations that specifically target the Jewish religion and teachings – and I suspect that the large majority have evangelical connections.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

This should not be that much of a surprise. There are significant efforts among “Evangelicals” to deprogram effects of other religious philosophies.

When I read "deprogram," I'm thinking of the type where the alleged victim is kidnapped from religious community and psychologically "snapped," back to reality. I believe there is an 80s era movie about this happening to a young adult who joined the Moonies. This type of deprogramming is now totally discredited. Kidnapping is illegal, of course, and the process is considered psychologically abusive.

No, I do not have the typical "Anti" groups, nor the likes of Christian Research Institute or CARM in mind here. If all the OP means by deprogramming are sites like Jews for Judaism, then I have no problems. But, if he means the type of "rescue" that I understand the word to mean, then wow! My concern that he may mean the more abusive form is driven by his particular mention of pentecostalism and emotionalism vs. reason. Hopefully I'm misreading or overreading.

Edited November 20, 2009 by prisonchaplain

[Vanhin]

That's true Traveler. I think I am starting to get fed up with it too. It's so obvious that the pastors of the various sects and denominations are "coaching" and training their members how to resist and thwart latter-day saints. For no real reason. That's what gets me.

What evil does our religion produce in the world? It has always puzzled me, especially when I grew up down south (Mississippi, Louisiana), why there was so much distrust and even hatred of us. So many people would seem to be my friends until they found out that I was one of them "Mormons". A girl I loved dearly, had to break up with me, because her father distrusted Mormons so much. She was in good hands at that point in my life, but nooo, every time I went over there, he wanted to go out in the garage and put on boxing gloves and box with me "for fun". I got my arse handed to me every time...

And I have seen so many tracts that simply lied about us, and it's always the same old stuff, that we have to constantly answer, over and over again. And it's not that our answers are not good enough, it's that our opponents are not really interested in them.

Our neighbor will not even come to a baby blessing or when one of my children are baptized, though we are good friends, because she is worried that she will be tempted to like our religion. Does that even make sense? Her pastor told her not to go there, ever. Another friend of mine and his family insists on saying their own prayers whenever they come over for dinner, in addition to my little daughter's prayer, because they are convinced by their pastors that we pray to a different God, in the name of a different Jesus. It hurts...

And, if we ever say anything about it... "Oh it's just the martyr complex that you Mormons have."

One of my favorite "programming" that I have noticed lately is the whole, "Way of the Master" stuff from Kirk Cameron and his New Zealand buddy. It's ridiculous... "That's not what the Bible says..." Yes it is. The Bible says it you prick, you just interpret it differently!

Anyway, I'm getting carried away. I have been thinking about this a lot lately.

Vanhin

[prisonchaplain]

You, Prison chaplain, are the grand exception. But as a Prison Chaplain you are required to support and help LDS (as well as all other in any religion) that are in the prison system and immersing yourself or indulging in any anti religious efforts or movements could cost you your job and current livelihood. That would be a great loss – not only to the prison system you serve but to society in general.

I could run the most virulent anti websites and engage in the most obnoxious street preaching and not lose my job, if it were off the prison grounds. I don't do so because it's not right, and because Jesus taught me that if any religious venom is to be dished up, it's generally for hypocritical leaders WITHIN the household of faith.

If we were to google “Christian Jews” I would suspect we would discover several organizations that specifically target the Jewish religion and teachings – and I suspect that the large majority have evangelical connections.

The Traveler

I actually had a classmate and friend who started a ministry in St. Louis, MO. I believe it was called "Messiah St. Louis." While it provided the Christian message targeted to the Jewish community, it was hardly over-emotional, nor "Anti." I see little difference between that and sending missionaries to foreign lands only after training them in some language, culture, and perhaps some strategies for effectively communicating in the new context.

As to the references to Anti-Mormon sites and ministries, I would consider your FAIRLDS group to be an appropriate and proper response. But, I wouldn't call it a "deprogramming" group. Again, I might be totally misreading the OP, but "deprogramming" to me would involve forced psychological reconditioning. Such is illegal, unethical, and terribly abusive.

[Traveler]

When I read "deprogram," I'm thinking of the type where the alleged victim is kidnapped from religious community and psychologically "snapped," back to reality. I believe there is an 80s era movie about this happening to a young adult who joined the Moonies. This type of deprogramming is now totally discredited. Kidnapping is illegal, of course, and the process is considered psychologically abusive.

No, I do not have the typical "Anti" groups, nor the likes of Christian Research Institute or CARM in mind here. If all the OP means by deprogramming are sites like Jews for Judaism, then I have no problems. But, if he means the type of "rescue" that I understand the word to mean, then wow! My concern that he may mean the more abusive form is driven by his particular mention of pentecostalism and emotionalism vs. reason. Hopefully I'm misreading or overreading.

This may be more of a spectrum of concepts than a well defined provable thing. Even within the LDS community friends and neighbors can have significant impact. However, a kidnapping can be effective over short periods of time as with the Elisabeth Smart example but such methods of captive indoctrination actually do more damage than good.

The interesting point, even for a parent with their children, is how much influence should be exerted from a position of power before we interfere with the individual right to determine what they believe.

I have an interesting book – that has had a significant impact on my thinking titled “Clarifying Values”. The idea of the book is to use teaching techniques and methods to teach a person to clarify for themselves what their own values are rather than attempt to teach or pass on specific sets of values.

I employ these methods often on the forum – When I ask questions like “Why do you worship that way?” Or “Is that what you think should happen?” or even “Is this the best way to handle the situation. Rather than the concepts of, “The Bible or scriptures say so.” Or “This is what we have always believed or been taught.”

The Traveler

[Traveler]

....

I actually had a classmate and friend who started a ministry in St. Louis, MO. I believe it was called "Messiah St. Louis." While it provided the Christian message targeted to the Jewish community, it was hardly over-emotional, nor "Anti." I see little difference between that and sending missionaries to foreign lands only after training them in some language, culture, and perhaps some strategies for effectively communicating in the new context.

....

BTW - just thought I would let you know that the LDS church does not send messionaries to Jewish or Islamic nations nor do the missionaries delibertly sent to Jewish or Islamic families. If they are incountered on accident they can be taught - in general it may by annoying to have the missionaries knock on your door but they will not go where they are not welcome. If they are not welcome the only reason they are there is because they do not know they are not welcome.

It is believed that before Jesus returns that the LDS missionaries will be welcome to teach to Jewish and Islamic societies. But the point is quite different there are no efforts to target any specific religion for our converts and if (as in Israel) there are laws enacted to protect certain religions we will not seek those out - but anyone that comes to us will be taught.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

This gets to a broader evangelistic issue. I'm told that LDS will not go to lands where missionary work is illegal, either. The command to obey government even supersede the Great Commission. For evangelicals, Jesus promise of the Holy Spirit's coming with the power to witness, came with the charge to go "First to Jerusualem..." How can we ignore the very people who birthed the Messiah, and who remain God's chosen?

I'm so thankful to the Jewish people and to Judaism for carrying the gospel for so many centuries. So much so that I am willing to endure their scorn for doing what Jesus did--sharing Good News, even when it's not welcome. We also have missionaries in the Middle East and in China. We had people behind the Iron Curtain before the wall came down. Some were martyrs. So be it.

There is a story I cannot verify. Ten thousand Christians from the Chinese church are planning to go to the Middle East as missionaries. They were asked why they would do such a dangerous thing, since they'll likely be jailed or killed. Their response was, "We know you cannot do so. You're not used to jail and death for Jesus. We are. We've experienced this for more than a generation. So, God will let us go."

[thekabalist]

Prisonchaplain,

You seem to be a kind and well-meaning person and I honestly cannot make many comments without the risk of being offensive to you or your faith. Suffice it to say that we Jews are not fond of the agressive missionary tactics and preying on the Jewish people of Evangelical Christianity as a whole. I really do not wish to go deeper in this subject as it will only bring up bad feelings on both sides. I hope you understand my position. That being said I find the LDS position far more respectful and loving in that they are sensitive to our concerns and respect our desire to remain Jewish.

b'shalom

[prisonchaplain]

Fair enough Kabalist. Yes, I know--I worked with an Orthodox rabbi-chaplain for four years in Miami, and had interaction with the Aleph Institute, which was very anti-missionary. The LDS approach is, of course, easier for observant Jews to appreciate.

My only concern really was the meaning of "deprogram." It's one thing to convince a loved one they should not leave the religion of their family and heritage, and quite another to subject adults to coerced re-education.

[Vanhin]

We do believe that there will be a time, forthcoming, when the restored gospel of Jesus Christ will be preached to the Jews in Israel. It will be on their terms. I personally believe that the Lord is already preparing many of them to receive the gospel, in both simple and profound ways. I think thekabalist's dreams, for instance, could be an example of that.

One of the best tools, in that effort, will be the Book of Mormon. I think people who are familiar with ancient writings of the Hebrews, when given a chance, will recognize it as the word of God, and will read it and be convinced of it's message. Moroni, the last prophet to write in the Book of Mormon, describes the book and it's purpose as follows:

Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites—Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel; and also to Jew and Gentile—Written by way of commandment, and also by the spirit of prophecy and of revelation—Written and sealed up, and hid up unto the Lord, that they might not be destroyed—To come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof—Sealed by the hand of Moroni, and hid up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile—The interpretation thereof by the gift of God.

An abridgment taken from the Book of Ether also, which is a record of the people of Jared, who were scattered at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people, when they were building a tower to get to heaven—Which is to show unto the remnant of the House of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever—And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations—And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ. (Title Page)

Regards,

Vanhin

[Generally_Me]

Thekabalist,

You wanted stories about converts to Mormonism. I know several, but don't know their stories very well. Even this story I had to get from my mom, so it's secondhand.

My maternal grandmother was raised Catholic, as her mother and grandmothers and so forth were before her. She married very young, a Catholic boy who was not a very nice person, and they quickly received an annulment. A priest at her church wanted her to become a nun. She refused. Some time later she met with LDS missionaries and converted, and her parents converted. She met an LDS man who was studying to become an institute teacher (institute is an LDS class during the week, for those wishing to study and learn together). They married, and did not live happily ever in fairytale land, after but have lived well. 10 years ago they went on an LDS mission together, before her health deteriorated. She is still quite faithful and an inspiration.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Fair enough Kabalist. Yes, I know--I worked with an Orthodox rabbi-chaplain for four years in Miami, and had interaction with the Aleph Institute, which was very anti-missionary. The LDS approach is, of course, easier for observant Jews to appreciate.

I attended a meeting of members of a Jewish synagogue and a Mormon stake who wanted to fellowship together in a non-missionary way. We sang hymns that shared common values, shared how we dealt with different issues in life, such as marriages, coming of age, priesthood, missions, etcetera, and at the end, brainstormed ways we could promote understanding and kindness among faiths that have diverse beliefs -- beliefs that are often in conflict with each other.

During the brainstorming, I suggested something, like an all-out advertising campaign for our meetings.

One Jewish fellow -- probably a leader in his Jewish organization, said "That's not our way to proselyte". His suggestion was to expand the meeting by inviting a black faith community to our meeting. This, he said, would be more consistent with his faith's philosophy.

I thought that was interesting -- and I learned that missionary style activities among the Jewish people at this meeting weren't part of their culture.

And as a second line of thought -- the question of whether one should put one's commitment to obey the laws of the land ahead of other principles -- such as the commandment to spread the word of God - always leads to interesting value conflicts. It's a tough debate about priorities when gospel principles are in conflict with each other. In one case, obeying the laws of the land, on the other the commandment to preach the gospel to all nations.

One interesting read was a story about a Mormon Youth in Nazi Germany. His branch had to decided whether to ban Jews from their meetings, or risk being persecuted by the Nazis....it had an interesting conclusion.

Also, a Mormon teenager -- probably teacher or priest age -- distributed anti-Nazi literature and was caught. There was a law against this, and he was convicted, and punished by death...should his Church membership been taken away for disobeying the unust laws of the land? Or should he be be forgiven by the church, with no penalties for disobeying the laws of the land? And what consequences would occur to the Church if they appeared to sanction behavior that was against the Nazi party? Should this even matter in their decision about what to do about his membership for disobeying the laws of the land?

I don't want to necessarily debate the rights and wrongs of this situation, but it was a fascinating read about how these issues can be resolved to meet all interests simultaneously, and sometimes not...

Edited November 21, 2009 by mormonmusic

[RanMan]

I don't have a conversion story so much from another Christian denomination, but I will offer it all the same, because I think it has the same value in seeing why a person would be attracted to the LDS faith.

Neither of my parent's families are very religious. On my mother's side, they are Lutheran because they are German. They only step inside a church to attend weddings and funerals. They never discuss their beliefs so I don't even know what they might be. On my father's side, religion amounts to the fact that they believe that God exists. That's it.

When us children started appearing, my father decided that he wanted to find a church for us to attend so that we could be raised "right." In this process we attended several Christian churches in an attempt to find the church the correct church. I was fairly young and not impressed enough with any of the churches until we joined the LDS Church.

In my teenage years, I found that the LDS Church made sense to me. What I heard in church seemed logical and when I heard the beliefs of other faiths I had a much harder time making sense of them. And to this day that remains true.

I have many critics accuse me of being brain-washed by my LDS upbringing, but my father taught me to examine the facts and be carefull in my decisions. That is what I have done in my membership of the LDS church. I looked at it, and what other Christian denominations have to offer, and made a choice. I certainly am happy with my membership in the Church and wish that others are / would be as happy with their decision of faith as I am.

As far as feelings go, I would not describe my experience with the Church as one ruled by feelings. When I receive revelation through the spirit, it comes as a moment of clarity where I can clearly see the answer to my question / dilemna. When that happens it doesn't come across as something I believe is true, it hits me as something I know is true.

Hope that is what you were looking for.

:)

[Maya]

I still recomend Muchnicks book. Notes of a Jewish convert to the LDS Church. In thsi book se beautifully tells about her Jewish religion and how she finally got interested in it. Her brother married a mauri girl from Hawai and she was an LDS. It tok her many years to study the scriptures by herself before she opened the door to the misionaries. She telss the story from teh point of a jew. She explains many jewish things in her book which I think you know and she also sees the similarity, the connefction between her "old" faith and LDS.

First she had to realise that Jesus Christ really was and is the saviour of the world. The very saviour Jews were waiting and because of whom ther eare some rites done in the jewish belief, which she now understands much more deeply.

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I am so happy I have discovered that truly Jesus is the Christ and taht he paid for our individual sins with his Atonement if we repend. I feel taht I finally begin to comprihend the amazing vision of te true future of the mankind.

I never knew that that opportunity excested untill I Heard the full Gospel adn came to know The Book of Mormon is true. To turn from teh Lord, to deny him invites loneleness, pleases the Adversary adn ensures a trouble-filled life.

The tapestry of eternity is always unfolding. From Adam in the Garden to the Law of Moses, through the life and ministry of Jesus Christ and the ensuing Great Apostasy following the death of the Christ`s apostles, to the restoration of the original Church of Jesus Christ. The unrolling of the plan of our Hevenly Father is moving with divane logic and perfect certanity thowards the inevitable Judgement Day. Zion is within us and always in reach....