1 Nephi chapter 8

[pam]

The word that is usually used in the Bible for tender is the word רך (rak). The most curious thing about this word is that it isn’t used only with the meaning of “tender” but also with the meaning of “weak” or “uncapable”. This shows us that Lehi must have suffered from a spiritual and emotional exhaustion by having to try to persuade his sons to follow the ways of G-d.

This makes sense to me in many ways. Laman and Lemuel had a history of murmurring against their father. A history of also getting others to rebel and complain against the words of Lehi. As a parent, I'm sure Lehi was feeling weak and feeling he was incapable of getting them to heed his words. He was probably wondering if anything he said would get them to change their ways. Probably a feeling of sadness and extreme failure in some ways.

[Giant_Son]

Thanks again, thekabalist! I wanted to comment that you are free to also discuss anything in the Book of Mormon that you don't understand. If you read something, that doesn't seem to jive with you, feel free to discuss it with us. One of us might be able to answer any questions you have.

[pam]

Or it's possible we've had the same questions and our own questions can be answered.

[rameumptom]

In Egyptian hieroglyphics, "iron rod" and "word" are synonymous.

As to the floating building being compared to the Tower, it does exactly fit in here.

Joseph Smith taught that when the City of Enoch was taken up, it was still visible in the sky during the time of Nimrod's Tower. Nimrod sought to catch the City of Enoch and overthrow it, by building a tower to it.

The City of Enoch was the true floating symbol of heaven, whereas the floating building filled with proud people in Lehi's dream are the apostate group, synonymous with those in the tower attempting to overthrow the true form, and the true way to enter heaven.

[Maya]

In Egyptian hieroglyphics, "iron rod" and "word" are synonymous.

As to the floating building being compared to the Tower, it does exactly fit in here.

Joseph Smith taught that when the City of Enoch was taken up, it was still visible in the sky during the time of Nimrod's Tower. Nimrod sought to catch the City of Enoch and overthrow it, by building a tower to it.

The City of Enoch was the true floating symbol of heaven, whereas the floating building filled with proud people in Lehi's dream are the apostate group, synonymous with those in the tower attempting to overthrow the true form, and the true way to enter heaven.

That was interesting.

I also feel even more for Lehi and Saria how much they ahd to work for getting Laman and Lemuel to do as they told them to.

[Maya]

Therefore when Lehi sees a river it means that G-d would provide for him and that through Lehi he would provide cleansing to others but it also indicates that Lehi would have to overcome a spiritual obstacle in the process. The idea of it being near the fruit indicates there would be a spiritual journey ahead of him until he could reach the sweet fruit he would savor.

This part really got me! We all have a spiritual journey to make with spiritual obstacles made just for us to win. After we have managed the journey and climbed over the obstacle the fruit really teasts sweeter.

[KerryShirts]

Rameumptom:

In Egyptian hieroglyphics, "iron rod" and "word" are synonymous.

Kerry:

I didn't know that. I will check this, it has interesting themes.....

[rameumptom]

I'm pretty sure I read it in a FARMS newsletter within the last couple years. I'd have to dig it out, not sure where it might be....

[KerryShirts]

I'm pretty sure I read it in a FARMS newsletter within the last couple years. I'd have to dig it out, not sure where it might be....

Did you ever get a chance to look this up?

[KerryShirts]

I'm pretty sure I read it in a FARMS newsletter within the last couple years. I'd have to dig it out, not sure where it might be....

I found it! VERY INTERESTING!!!!!!! Here's the quote with the footnotes...

"What Meaneth the Rod of Iron"?

Matthew L. Bowen

Insights Volume - 25, Issue - 2

Provo, Utah: Maxwell Institute

We note that the Egyptian word mdw means not only "a staff [or] rod"2 but also "to speak" a "word."3 The derived word md.t, or mt.t, probably pronounced *mateh in Lehi's day, was common in the Egyptian dialect of that time and would have sounded very much like a common Hebrew word for rod or staff, matteh.4 It is also very interesting that the expression mdw-ntr was a technical term for a divine revelation, literally the "the word of God [or] divine decree."5 The phrase mdw-ntr also denoted "sacred writings,"6 what we would call scriptures, as well as the "written characters [or] script"7 in which these sacred writings were written.

Now consider Nephi's comparison of the word and the rod in the context of the Egyptian word mdw:

I beheld that the rod [mdw/mt.t, Heb. matteh] of iron, which my father had seen, was the word [mdw/mt.t] of God.8 (1 Nephi 11:25)

And they said unto me: What meaneth the rod [mdw/mt.t, Heb. matteh] of iron which our father saw, that led to the tree? And I said unto them that it was the word [mdw/mt.t] of God; and whoso would hearken unto the word of God, and would hold fast unto it, they would never perish. (1 Nephi 15:23—24)

NOTES

2. Raymond O. Faulkner, A Concise Dictionary of Middle Egyptian (Oxford: Griffith Institute/Ashmolean Museum, 1999), 122.

3. Ibid. Significantly, all mdw-derived words were originally written with the "walking stick"/"staff" (i.e., "rod") hieroglyph (see Sir Alan H. Gardiner, Egyptian Grammar [Oxford: Griffith Institute/Ashmolean Museum, 1999], 510). Thus "word" in its earliest Egyptian conception was literally identified with a "rod."

4. Francis Brown, S. R. Driver, and Charles A. Briggs, A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1951?), 641. (matteh) = "staff, rod, shaft." It is derived from the triliteral root NTH, which as a verb means "stretch out, spread out, extend, incline, bend." Thus I suspect that Lehi's first mention of the "rod of iron" might well constitute a polyptoton (words derived from the same root and used in the same sentence) on NTH: "And I beheld a rod [matteh] of iron, and it extended [nth] along the bank of the river, and led to the tree by which I stood" (1 Nephi 8:19). An Egyptian transliteration of the Hebrew matteh ("rod") and Egyptian mdw/mt.t ("rod, word") would have been graphically similar or even identical if written in demotic characters.

Edited February 7, 2010 by KerryShirts

[KerryShirts]

I have every single source this article lists. During the Superbowl, I looked up all the Egyptian and all the Hebrew. This is good enough that I am going to do a video and SHOW the actual Egyptian and Hebrew. It is very interesting in light of other ideas I have on the archaeological state of our knowledge of Judah 600 B.C. The new look at the history, politics, religion, and culture REALLY, ***REALLY*** give power to the BofM. That's why this extra little ditty is going into a new video. This stuff is just fantastic how it all interacts, interlaces, and supports our Book of Mormon. I'll keep ya posted on when my 2nd video (very POWERFUL) for Reformed Egyptian gets up on the You Tube, as well as the new one I will make on these ideas and themes. Through time, the BofM has just become more powerful, relevant, and exciting! We live in terrific times!

[rameumptom]

Kerry,

Glad you found it. I haven't been able to find my head the last few weeks, I've been so busy.

I agree that there are so many things that tie 600 BC Book of Mormon to 600 BC Israel/Egypt. I think you'll also want to review Margaret Barker's talk from the 2005 Joseph Smith Symposium at the Library of Congress. She discusses Lehi's vision of the Tree of Life in conjunction with the first temple worship of Asherah. Why does Nephi see the Tree of Life, and next sees the virgin Mary with Jesus? Because the Tree represents God's wife (Wisdom, Asherah), whose fruit is the Son of God. Perfect symbolism, which Joseph Smith could not have known about in his day, since no one in his day knew about the Tree of Life imagery in the first temple, nor about Asherah being God's wife.

[Maya]

Listening to the Kabalist and you many of you guys I fele like Mary... sitting by your feet and listening... I quess you`ll have to do as Jesus is not around!

Edited February 9, 2010 by Maya

[KerryShirts]

Kerry,

Glad you found it. I haven't been able to find my head the last few weeks, I've been so busy.

I agree that there are so many things that tie 600 BC Book of Mormon to 600 BC Israel/Egypt. I think you'll also want to review Margaret Barker's talk from the 2005 Joseph Smith Symposium at the Library of Congress. She discusses Lehi's vision of the Tree of Life in conjunction with the first temple worship of Asherah. Why does Nephi see the Tree of Life, and next sees the virgin Mary with Jesus? Because the Tree represents God's wife (Wisdom, Asherah), whose fruit is the Son of God. Perfect symbolism, which Joseph Smith could not have known about in his day, since no one in his day knew about the Tree of Life imagery in the first temple, nor about Asherah being God's wife.

I have actually done a series of videos on her talk, and it IS great stuff!

[Jerubbaal]

**It is interesting to find that the Prophet J.S. mentions "thick darkness" gathering round him, just before experiencing the first vision...**

Edited April 23, 2011 by Jerubbaal

[jongjong]

yeah it really does !! prophet J.S really had that experience before God the Father and The Son appeared unto him !!!

[marckendy]

I testify Joseph smith is the prophet OF GODi know sincerly very heart and I beleive the church of thee heavenly father restored by him

[ReshAyinHeh]

1st Nephi chapter 8 is the core of the book of Mormon; the Iron Rod, Tree, and Fruit covering a specific formula which will only be understood by those who really understand the meaning of Tifareth and Geburah.