Sexual sins next to murder?

[ryanh]

I think all the debate about the purposes of why or when sex outside of marriage is wrong is missing the point.

In my mind, the point should simply be 'God made a commandment, He knows best, so either choose to accept it, or not'. There is no debate. Degrees of severity don't matter. Sin is sin, and keeps us from blessings.

To argue anything about sexual sins reflects a deficiency in the understandings of the Law of Chastity, and the covenants necessary to return to His presence.

God does not give ANY law or commandment except it is for our benefit. We should all understand that the law of chastity, which is that the men and women should not engage in sexual relations except when legally and lawfully married, is for our own benefit. Whether for reproduction, marital relations, while engaged, with a prostitute, or whatever, the law is given.

The law is not given to punish, make feel worthless, or degrade. It is to warn that there are consequences to not obeying a law. Debating about when and under what circumstances breaking the law is worse is looking beyond the mark! Doing so is only to our own detriment.

Elder Oaks gave a talk this last Conference regarding God’s Love and Law. It is very applicable to this discussion.

God’s love for His children is an eternal reality, but why does He love us so much, and why do we desire that love? The answer is found in the relationship between God’s love and His laws.

. . .

We read again and again in the Bible and in modern scriptures of God’s anger with the wicked3 and of His acting in His wrath4 against those who violate His laws. How are anger and wrath evidence of His love? Joseph Smith taught that God “institute[d] laws whereby [the spirits that He would send into the world] could have a privilege to advance like himself.”5 God’s love is so perfect that He lovingly requires us to obey His commandments because He knows that only through obedience to His laws can we become perfect, as He is. For this reason, God’s anger and His wrath are not a contradiction of His love but an evidence of His love. Every parent knows that you can love a child totally and completely while still being creatively angry and disappointed at that child’s self-defeating behavior

The love of God is so universal that His perfect plan bestows many gifts on all of His children, even those who disobey His laws. Mortality is one such gift, bestowed on all who qualified in the War in Heaven.6 Another unconditional gift is the universal resurrection: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:22). Many other mortal gifts are not tied to our personal obedience to law. As Jesus taught, our Heavenly Father “maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust” (Matthew 5:45).

If only we will listen, we can know of God’s love and feel it, even when we are disobedient. A woman recently returned to Church activity gave this description in a sacrament meeting talk: “He has always been there for me, even when I rejected Him. He has always guided me and comforted me with His tender mercies all around me, but I [was] too angry to see and accept incidents and feelings as such.”

However:

God’s choicest blessings are clearly contingent upon obedience to God’s laws and commandments. The key teaching is from modern revelation:

“There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

“And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated” (D&C 130:20–21).

This great principle helps us understand the why of many things, like justice and mercy balanced by the Atonement. It also explains why God will not forestall the exercise of agency by His children. Agency—our power to choose—is fundamental to the gospel plan that brings us to earth.

[funkenheimer]

Does it really matter? Honestly ask yourself if it makes any difference which sins are worse than others.

It is sin that keeps us from returning to our Father in Heaven. It is sin that keeps us from achieving exaltation and it is sin that keeps families apart through the eternities.

The only way to overcome this is by repentance, no matter what the sin. Once we have done all we can, then through the mercy of the Savior and through the atonement we can overcome sin.

If we fail on earth and do not repent of our sins, and are therefor forced to spend the eternities in a lesser kingdom, does it really matter which sin is worse?

[marts1]

You cannot get away from the fact we all sin to some degree no matter how hard we try. The less the better so ya, it does matter.

[MarginOfError]

You cannot get away from the fact we all sin to some degree no matter how hard we try. The less the better so ya, it does matter.

I will contest that claim. It is perfectly plausible and highly likely that there are people who have no problem resisting sexual sin, but they can't bring themselves to pay their tithing. Does the fact that they committed a "lesser sin" make them more eligible for exaltation than a person who committed sexual sin? Nope--instead, they are both ineligible.

It actually matters very little what the "severity" of the sin is. What has a greater impact is the ease with which an individual can repent of a given sin. For someone who can view pornography and then repent and never view it again, pornography is not a serious sin. But if he continuously remits into patterns of lying, then they lying is a serious sin for him to overcome.

So, no, I don't think it matters how "serious" the sin is. I only think it matters how capable we are to overcome our various sins.

[Guest mysticmorini]

So, no, I don't think it matters how "serious" the sin is. I only think it matters how capable we are to overcome our various sins.

Either that or seriousness does matter, but seriousness is measured on our ability to repent and not the type of sin. perhaps this is just a different way to say the same thing.

[marts1]

Another point that can be made here is the fact that most of us will not make it to the top degree in which case the higher the better. Would a person rather go to outer darkness or a telestial degree for an extreme example.

[MarginOfError]

Either that or seriousness does matter, but seriousness is measured on our ability to repent and not the type of sin. perhaps this is just a different way to say the same thing.

That sounds like a very different argument than you were making before.

[MarginOfError]

Another point that can be made here is the fact that most of us will not make it to the top degree in which case the higher the better. Would a person rather go to outer darkness or a telestial degree for an extreme example.

Most of us will not make it to the top degree...without the Atonement. And repentance is the key to accessing the Atonement. So again, it matters little what the sin is, but what our ability to repent of it is.

[funkenheimer]

Most of us will not make it to the top degree...without the Atonement. And repentance is the key to accessing the Atonement. So again, it matters little what the sin is, but what our ability to repent of it is.

Exactly the point I was trying to make, only better stated.

[Moksha]

Sexual sins next to murder?

The countless people who have forged secular law have put a great deal of thought into the seriousness of various crimes. Murder tops the list. They have even classified various type of murder. They have also classified various types of sexual misconduct. They are able to come to this classification by looking at things as shades of gray, rather than as black and white items.

[marts1]

We all have our weakness's of which can be made into strengths. This is a long process and we are also givin weakness's that we might remain or be humble.

[Faded]

If I have a one time forinication with another partner, that only affects me and my partner.

If I peddle Heroin to kids, I bring a whole lot of souls into darkness and quite possibly their lives.

For them they might overdose and die before getting out of the quagmire. Thus the end of a possible life that could have had a lot of potential.

Me and my partner can have hope in the Atonement, and even if there was a pregnancy, that could bring great joy in ones life.

Seems like I have heard something about turning your weaknesses into strengths.

As far as the one-time forinication vs. putting smack into kids --- no comparison. (IMO)

Quite frankly, it's an absolutely lousy example, because it seeks to twist things in the favor of one side.

It is saying "one-time sinning vs sinning over and over again."

That DOES NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION. It merely confuses it. It's like saying, "Which is bigger, one watermelon or a thousand grapes." But the original question was, "Which is bigger, a watermelon or a grape?"

A more accurate comparison for one-time fornication would be selling drugs to one kid and never doing it again. And in that comparison, there undoubtedly will be some people who are just sure that drugs is worse. Well, both things are bad. Fornication is FAR worse in the eyes of God.

Much of it comes down to what is legal vs what is illegal. Adultery and fornication are not illegal (there are laws but they are not enforced.) Going 75 miles per hour in a 55 mile and hour zone IS illegal. Does that make speeding worse than fornicating?

[hordak]

Quite frankly, it's an absolutely lousy example, because it seeks to twist things in the favor of one side.

It is saying "one-time sinning vs sinning over and over again."

That DOES NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION. It merely confuses it. It's like saying, "Which is bigger, one watermelon or a thousand grapes." But the original question was, "Which is bigger, a watermelon or a grape?"

A more accurate comparison for one-time fornication would be selling drugs to one kid and never doing it again. And in that comparison, there undoubtedly will be some people who are just sure that drugs is worse. Well, both things are bad. Fornication is FAR worse in the eyes of God.

Much of it comes down to what is legal vs what is illegal. Adultery and fornication are not illegal (there are laws but they are not enforced.) Going 75 miles per hour in a 55 mile and hour zone IS illegal. Does that make speeding worse than fornicating?

As the one who asked the question I was comparing a watermelon to 1000 grapes.

(Though my initial post was not clear as it could be)

Plus you yourself "twisted" it

Despite the corrupting influence of society, the powerful impact of sexual sin is very easy to demonstrate. Consider the following scenarios:

As have others

I for one am not influence by the social acceptance, or enforcement. But but the affect is has on others.

Violation of the second greatest commandment ( i suppose you could put fornication in their as well but that affects 2 souls,)

The drug dealing affects as many as you can supply.

Guess we will agree to disagree.