Two Types Of Sin

[Traveler]

I believe there are two kinds of sins or levels of sin if you will. The first type of sin I call the stupid ignorant sin. This is the most common of sins and is the result of a lot of dumb things, including not paying attention. We just get all caught up in the excitement of the moment, try it you like it mentality, sometimes called the error of youth or boys will be boys or girls just want to have fun mentality. Usually, us low life sinners, really do not mean any harm. We are not looking for a way to get into Hell. Call it a oops or whatever you like; in scripture this is addressed in a most interesting manner along the lines – the times of ignorance G-d winked at but now commands everyone to repent. I concur with scripture – repent –repentance is not that hard (see thread - is being a Christian easy or hard?)

That aside there is to my understanding a whole different level of sin but before I tell you what I think it is, you have to understand something else first. You have to understand the power of G-d in your life and how it can change you from a low-life sinner to something rather grand and wonderful. Someone filled with the spirit of G-d with full knowledge of his love, mercy, grace and compassion. Someone with the understanding, acceptance and knowledge of Jesus and his great sacrifice for our sins. Someone aware of Jesus’ agony at Gethsemane, his pain on the cross and his broken heart at his death. Our evangelical friends call this born again and I agree in part with that assessment. This then brings me to the different type or next level of sin. Someone that has knowledge of G-d’s love, mercy, grace and compassion; someone that realizes the great cost redeemed by Christ in paying for our sins; someone that knows what agony our sins cause G-d; someone who walks with their hand in G-d’s hand; someone that is surrounded in G-d’s spirit to guide their very step. Someone that with full knowledge and G-d beside them chooses in their heart to commit to go against G-d’s will in order to sin. This I call the sin of knowledge and light – a sin of intelligence as apposed to the sin of ignorance type. This is no oops like the lower level sin, this is not a sin of stupidity, it is not a just a sin against your fellow man – it is an open full knowledge deliberate sin against G-d and it is a sin against the holy spirit of G-d.

Not very many can commit the second type of sin. I do not dare say any individual who I think can do a second level sin. But I am quite concerned with those Christians that claim they are eligible (prime candidates), then excuse their sins against G-d as non consequential nothing sins because they are saved and do not need to even consider repentance (change of heart towards G-d and/or their fellow man) from their choice to sin.

Let me just say one thing – what ever your type of sin is, what ever occurred in your heart to allow you to sin and not care. You need to make a change of your heart and that change is called repentance – it is something you have control over and something you must do. If you do not repent your heart will remain unchanged and able to excuse sin. And if you can sin while holding on to G-d’s hand; something is more wrong than you may want to consider thinking about. Perhaps you should consider a “more excellent way”.

And so I ask an old question again in a slightly different manner – is it easy to be a repentant Christian?

The Traveler

[Setheus]

I think it is not easy to be a repentant christian...if it were we wouldnt be having this conversation. I do believe that its esier the more you want it and the harder you strive towards it.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Setheus@Nov 30 2005, 09:46 PM

I think it is not easy to be a repentant christian...if it were we wouldnt be having this conversation.  I do believe that its esier the more you want it and the harder you strive towards it.

←

Thank you for responding - It appears that you are the only "repentant Christian" that would consider making a comment. Mostly I agree with you post. If there is a difference in our opinions it is this. I believe that when the spirit of G-d is with a person they do not even have a desire to sin. In order to sin we must drive the spirit of G-d away. Once we have done that it is very difficult to get it back. The more use to sin we become the more difficult it is to repent (have a change of mind and heart)

The Traveler

[Setheus]

The reason why no one replied is because you and I are just way more evolved than the rest of these monkeys.

Also, with the clarification in your second post I think we have the same view of this.

[Laureltree]

I think allot of people sin Knowling and quite a few are not oops...They just seem to think if its not written in stone from god..It's not a sin.

I agree with you though..It is so... not easy. It takes a mighty change of heart, a sorrowfull one, one that is saddened by the choice that they have make. At that point they truly want to change...What they do with it from there will allow god to decide if they have truly repented.........

[Setheus]

Hmmm, Traveler, what do you suppose that cute little monkey is chattering about?

HA HA I"M JUST KIDDING LT!!!!

I think that is a very good point you made.

[Laureltree]

But But But...... I'm a pooh Bear ..................

[Laureltree]

Ok...Ok...So..I'm a monkey....Geesh. Who would have known?

[Alias29]

Traveler and Setheus,

I have an honest question to ask. Maybe you can shed light on it.

I am scripturaly (if it's even a word) challenged. I cannot remember where I read it, but I was sure I saw that if you commit adultry/fornication and repent, you are saved, but if do it again after repentance, you are cast out. Of course that is not the exact wording, so no poking fun here

It's worrysome because that means that if you make these mistakes and learn from them all, and repent again...it doesn't matter. You are still not going to get into the celestial kingdom. I hate to sound rebellious, but doesn't that make all the effort pointless?

I just would like to know your idea on this since you and Setheus are both spiritually, highly evolved individuals who would surely have all the answers, right?

Just teasing. I have alot of questions like this. Sad, huh?

Goes to show how ill informed I am.

[Beautiful_Serenity]

Originally posted by Alias29@Dec 6 2005, 06:44 PM

Traveler and Setheus,

I have an honest question to ask. Maybe you can shed light on it.

I am scripturaly (if it's even a word) challenged. I cannot remember where I read it, but I was sure I saw that if you commit adultry/fornication and repent, you are saved, but if do it again after repentance, you are cast out. Of course that is not the exact wording, so no poking fun here 

It's worrysome because that means that if you make these mistakes and learn from them all, and repent again...it doesn't matter. You are still not going to get into the celestial kingdom. I hate to sound rebellious, but doesn't that make all the effort pointless?

←

If you truly repent from any sin; the repentant person has learned from his/her mistake. Of course if you make the same mistake again and again then the person who "repented" really hasn't otherwise the same pitfalls wouldn't be so easy to trip over.

I think that when we are truly repented and really learned from our mistakes we wont sin (that particular sin) again. Of course the problem with the human race is memory. We forget! We forget the lessons we have learned. We hang on to old habits, friends who really aren't the best to be around, and get caught up in the same old scene.

Making a change of heart is just that a change.

If we do get caught up in our mistakes then we will be "damned", but the good news is we have a whole life time to learn to fix those mistakes.

Yet we have so much to learn what a waste it could be to try to take the same class over and over if we have already passed.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Alias29@Dec 6 2005, 06:44 PM

Traveler and Setheus,

I have an honest question to ask. Maybe you can shed light on it.

I am scripturaly (if it's even a word) challenged. I cannot remember where I read it, but I was sure I saw that if you commit adultry/fornication and repent, you are saved, but if do it again after repentance, you are cast out. Of course that is not the exact wording, so no poking fun here 

It's worrysome because that means that if you make these mistakes and learn from them all, and repent again...it doesn't matter. You are still not going to get into the celestial kingdom. I hate to sound rebellious, but doesn't that make all the effort pointless?

I just would like to know your idea on this since you and Setheus are both spiritually, highly evolved individuals who would surely have all the answers, right? 

Just teasing. I have alot of questions like this. Sad, huh?

Goes to show how ill informed I am.

←

The scripture is D&C 42:24-26

However you need to be careful about this scripture as this particular revelation is given to those that are active in the covenant of the Priesthood and does not pertain to all. It is my understand that this has to do with the priesthood covenant of marriage - or if you will, seeling in the temple. If you have any doubt or question talk with your bishop. My advice to anyone and everyone is to repent.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

I think it is not easy to be a repentant christian...if it were we wouldnt be having this conversation.  I do believe that its esier the more you want it and the harder you strive towards it.

Here's a true story that illustrates the difficulty of this issue. A friend of mine was raised Baptist, and was taught, "Once saved always saved." One day he shared his testimony, saying, "It may or may not be true, but 'once saved always saved' saved me." He had struggled with a particular sin (which he did not name) for 15 years. Every day he committed the sin (knowingly). Every night he repented. He kept at it because, despite his repeated failures, he knew that God still loved him, and he still belonged to God. Finally, after 15 years he got his deliverance. Today he is a deacon--ironically, in a church that does not teach "once saved always saved."

We've been taught that to repent means to ask forgiveness and to turn from the sin. So, did he repent? Apparently he did, for he ultimately found liberty from the bondage. Did he get away with sinning for 15 years? I would guess those were the most difficult 15 years of his life.

I do not buy into "once saved always saved." However, as hard as it is to repent, those who have truly embraced God's love will probably find it ultimately easier to repent than not to. God chases after us, woos us back, draws us by his Holy Ghost. The most miserable person in the world is the believer who is living in sin. S/he can't enjoy the unholy behavior, but doesn't have full peace with God either.

[Guest ToasterOfen]

Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Dec 7 2005, 09:08 AM

I do not buy into "once saved always saved."  However, as hard as it is to repent, those who have truly embraced God's love will probably find it ultimately easier to repent than not to.  God chases after us, woos us back, draws us by his Holy Ghost.  The most miserable person in the world is the believer who is living in sin.  S/he can't enjoy the unholy behavior, but doesn't have full peace with God either.

←

I appreciate this comment and agree with it. I think that no matter where we are in our spiritual journey, we are going to sin, big or small, knowingly or unknowingly, and I am grateful to know that the Lord is there waiting for me to turn to him.

When we know more, more is expected of us, so then if we sin, we are going hurt even more deeply..."The most miserable person in the world is the believer who is living in sin. S/he can't enjoy the unholy behavior, but doesn't have full peace with God either." How can one have peace when they know they have offended God and sinned?

[Fiannan]

A related question:

I have heard people say that if you commit a sin, then you repent, but then a few years later commit that same sin then not only that sin weighs against you but also all the other times you committed that sin.

Is that correct or is it misinterpretation of scripture?

[prisonchaplain]

A related question:

I have heard people say that if you commit a sin, then you repent, but then a few years later commit that same sin then not only that sin weighs against you but also all the other times you committed that sin.

Is that correct or is it misinterpretation of scripture?

No. What God forgives is truly forgiven. In our courts the judge has the power to "forgive" a crime, meaning to withhold punishment. If the offender reviolates, the original charge is reactivated.

Our God does not work that way. Scripture says that when ours sins are forgiven they are removed as far as the East is from the West. The ultimate danger of returning to former sins, is that we will allow our hearts to become so calloused that we no longer respond to the conviction and drawing of the Holy Spirit. The end-line of that sad course is that we commit the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit--the one sin for which there is no forgiveness.

So, Saints, sinners, seekers, backsliders, and all those in between--repent today, turn from your wicked ways. Run quickly prodigal sons and daughters into the loving arms of your heavenly father!

BTW--I don't know where all that came from. You discerners of spirits will have to determine it.

[Traveler]

I disagree with the previous post. Repentance is a change of heart. When one repents their heart is turned to G-d. When a person sins their heart must be turned away from G-d before doing so. It is impossible to love G-d and sin or disobey any commandment of G-d. The Bible (NT) tells us that if one turns away from G-d to sin according to any part of the law they are guilty of all.

I am not sure why any person would believe and teach contrary to scripture. Most likely they will attempt to interpret scriptures to their view but I am sure of two things. No one sins with G-d help or if they belong to G-d. And if someone sins they must repent or suffer the costs of sin - regardless of their opinions and interpretations of scripture. I find no where in scripture that G-d allows one to seek forgiveness of a sin prior to committing that sin. Repentance must come after the sin.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Traveler says:  I disagree with the previous post.  ... I find no where in scripture that G-d allows one to seek forgiveness of a sin prior to committing that sin.  Repentance must come after the sin.

It was my post you're disagree with, and I am not sure why. You insinuate here that I suggested sins could be forgiven prior to them being committed. I never said, nor did I mean to hint that they could be.

However, your verbage seems to suggest that the commitment of a single sin, regardless of what it is, breaks fellowship with G-d, and requires repentence. Well, okay. Yes, we must repent of all our sins. However, if every time I drive and think "That driver's an idiot!" Traveler believes I must get on my knees and cry out to God, begging for him to forgive me, because, after all, I know God now, and I know better than to think ill of others, well...I'm thinking we'd all best just stay on our knees.

We don't lose our salvation everytime we stumble. However, if we fail to repent, then we will lose our salvation, ultimately.

I hope I clarified my view. I'll not be selling indulgences here anytime soon.

[pushka]

PC, I read your reply the other night, and I understood it..and I agreed with your reasoning too...I suppose it mirrors the way I've always understood the process of repentance, and I can see how one would become less inclined to repent the more they commit a sin over and over again...