Fiannan Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Tookie Williams committed a gruesome set of murders. So what if he wrote a few books (which didn't even hardly sell), he deserves the death penalty. I don't know how the moderators would feel so I will not post a link to the photographs of his victims after they were murdered -- they were released as part of the evidence regarding possible clemency. The cattle we kill for food aren't put through such acts of violence. I believe if the media would give equal time to presenting biographies of murder victims, along with the pictures of these people, then we'd be seeing a lot more space opening up in the prisons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Then there may be riots. So basically Violence will begat another violence act which will lead to more violence in a what is basically a vengeful, cold hearted, violent nation. It also sends the message that if you do crime, get sent to prison, screw trying to at least attempt to make some amends. And heck, if your a gang leader you might as well stay part of the gang and continue the killing. It kind of works if that is the sort of thing you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted December 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Gang leaders deserve justice just as much as some lonely seriel killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Put him to death and let the riots begin. It gives me something to watch on TV.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laureltree Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 So..What should we do with him? Should we intergrate him back in to society? Should we keep him in prison? What would be the best approach that he will not benifit from....? What approach would allow him to understand what he truly did, not only to those involved, but to there families as well? How can we ever have a system that works if we are constantly changing it out of fear or negotiations...When will these people ever take responsibility for there own actions? I'm more worried that if we don't do something others will think Hey....I'll get out, then I'll do it again.... But next time it might be someone in your family....weather it be a drive by at the mall, a school, a park ......It can happen any place any where. We shouldn't be at fear of what may happen if we do....We should be terrified at what may happen if we don't.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 So..What should we do with him? Should we intergrate him back in to society?Should we keep him in prison? What would be the best approach that he will not benifit from....? Life without parole. It's not as though I am suggesting the guy get out of prison.What approach would allow him to understand what he truly did, not only to those involved, but to there families as well? How can we ever have a system that works if we are constantly changing it out of fear or negotiations...When will these people ever take responsibility for there own actions? I'm more worried that if we don't do something others will think Hey....I'll get out, then I'll do it again....But next time it might be someone in your family....weather it be a drive by at the mall, a school, a park ......It can happen any place any where. We shouldn't be at fear of what may happen if we do....We should be terrified at what may happen if we don't..........And all I am saying is if we punish with brutality and vengence, and the person we are punishing has done some things in the interim of his crime which has helped people, and they react in a brutal and vengeful way, because the death of somebody who may have changed their lives, then we reap what we sow. If we as a society are okay with the trade off.... then so be it. But don't shoot the messenger if I suggest our nation is a pretty nasty place in this regard. Not a hell of a lot better in some regards than the countries we suggest lack human rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 But next time it might be someone in your family....weather it be a drive by at the mall, a school, a park ......It can happen any place any where. We shouldn't be at fear of what may happen if we do....We should be terrified at what may happen if we don't..........First, I have better things to do than live in fear. If you are suggesting this kind of thing works then explain to me why we incarcerate a higher number, and higher percentage, of our citizenry than any other developed nation in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 I believe the death penalty is a crime deterrent. Executed killers do not commit more crimes. I also believe that there are a few people that balk at the idea of being executed and do not commit crimes that would qualify them for the death penalty. Yes we live in a violent society. Until the violent element is taken care of even violently they will exist and in some parts of the world rule. Example: Warlords in Afghanistan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted December 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Alma (first couple of chapters I believe) makes it clear the consequences to a society if a person taking innocent blood is not given the death penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josie Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 I see nothing wrong with the death penalty and believe that if an individual deliberately takes another life, then he should pay with his own life. I do believe it would stop much of the murders taking place today. I would like to see our court systems cleaned up and stream lined to get people through the system much faster, no longer sitting on death row for even 5 or 10 years, much less 20 or more. Once a person is sentenced, a way needs to be developed to put them through their appeals and get it done in no more than 2 years at the most. I believe that needs to be done with the whole judicial system, this thing of taking years and years to get through all of the appeals is rediculous. Any crime hurting another individual is automatic prison time, regardless. We need to be tougher on the criminal and alot of it would stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Yes we live in a violent society. Until the violent element is taken care of even violently they will exist and in some parts of the world rule. Example: Warlords in Afghanistan. So what is it about the United States.... a so-called free and Christian nation which makes us more violent than the rest of the world in your view? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 I see nothing wrong with the death penalty and believe that if an individual deliberately takes another life, then he should pay with his own life. I do believe it would stop much of the murders taking place today. I am not anti-death penalty. But unless there is 100% certainty then it shouldn't be carried out. 99.99% isn't good enough. And as was shown in Illinois..... it is not even close to 99.99%, much less 100%. FWIW, this is one of those issues that has me raising my child in a secular, and even godless way, versus a religious way. Just look at the blood lust and harshness on this forum. WAY more than even this godless heathen feels. You folks only seem to have love for your fellow human beings if they are like you. But if they screw up.... no matter what the circumstances then it's..... lock them up. And I find it even more ironic that most of the same people say they are anti-abortion, because you are killing the "un-born". But then when they are born into awful environments where they are not taught the values you share, and twenty years later committ a crime the attitude is to lock them up and throw away the keys. In my opinion you (I mean "you" in a societal sense not necessarily the person I quoted) don't care about the living.... oops, except those like you. I'm sorry..... I have a hard time seing any additional morality in these views. So there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 This type of subject came up not to long ago with that lady in Texas. Far more folks seem to be on her side for clemency. I wonder why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setheus Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Here is how I would run the show..... If you rape or murder you are sent to a special "Murder/ Rapist" Prision. All convicted rapist and killers throughout the US from every state are sent to this one prision.....which only has 100 beds. Thats right, just enough for 100 inmates. How can this work? Its simple. If you are number 99 as far as who's been there longest and a new inmate comes in fresh off the streets, you get bumped up to number 100...and the guy who was standing at 100....he is executed THAT DAY. Then, if 3 new guys come in the next day that means you and 99 and 98 are TOAST....its a rotation. This would be an excellent crime prevention tactic and it would save MILLIONS of tax dollars that now go to just keeping these scum in a cage and providing them books and tv's and cigarettes etc....in this new prision you get just what is required to physically stay alive until you become 100th inmate and a religious text of your choice. Thats it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 You get a pass I guess given where you've been. But if I want that kind of environment I'd move to Afganistan, Iran, or Saudi Arabia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted December 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 But if they screw up.... no matter what the circumstances then it's..... lock them up. And I find it even more ironic that most of the same people say they are anti-abortion, because you are killing the "un-born". But then when they are born into awful environments where they are not taught the values you share, and twenty years later committ a crime the attitude is to lock them up and throw away the keys. Screw up(?), why don't you go onto google, type in Mr. William's name, add to it crime scene photo and then tell me he deserves clemency. When I hear the word "screw up" it conjures up things like shop lifting or getting hooked on drugs, not making hamburger out of innocent people. So, just out of curiosity, who deserves to live the most -- a child six months after conception, or a violent murderer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 I'll type slower this time so maybe you can perhaps see my points....Screw up(?), why don't you go onto google, type in Mr. William's name, add to it crime scene photo and then tell me he deserves clemency. When I hear the word "screw up" it conjures up things like shop lifting or getting hooked on drugs, not making hamburger out of innocent people. It was 25 years ago. He has done good since. And I am not suggesting he get out of prison.... ever. Say, what was your opinion on that lady from Texas awhile back in the same situation?So, just out of curiosity, who deserves to live the most -- a child six months after conception, or a violent murderer?Again, I'll try again and type slower this time..... people who shout about protecting the rights of the un-born.... then don't give a crap about them once they are born.... except Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted December 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Oh please, if a fetus grabs a gun and blows the head off some innocent store clerk I'd support the death penalty for him too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Sarcastic pith is hardly decent argumentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josie Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 I don't think it is being blood thirsty or violent to end the life of someone who has ended someone else's. It is done only after they have been proven to have committed that crime and had a chance to appeal that conviction usually several times through several courts. That mean alot of people have agreed that there is no doubt of their guilt. As long as we continue to allow people to get away with their crimes and go unpunished, they will continue to commit the crimes over and over. Until we put a stop to it, it will not stop. I do not believe that people in prison should be treated badly. But I do believe that they should be put to work. They should be kept busy, the more violent ones in the walls of the prison and those there for minor offenses, put to cleaning up roads, or whatever to give them something to do, save tax payers money, that is already paying to keep them there. I even have no objection to educating those that have hope to get out, that they may be productive citizen's when they get out, but I think that just like the hard working citizen that is obeying the law, they should be expected to pay the state back for that education when it is finished and they are working. There are alot of things that could be done, to make this a better place to live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisajo Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Which is cheaper for the tax payers...Killing him?......Letting him live in prison for the rest of his life? Or What it will cost after all the rioting that could happen if he dies? Just a thought........................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 As long as we continue to allow people to get away with their crimes and go unpunished, they will continue to commit the crimes over and over. Until we put a stop to it, it will not stop.The guy in question is in prison. They are not suggesting he be let out. You ever been inside a prison. I have..... 3-4 times a year to visit my students (I don't have to but it is the right thing to do). It's not a nice place. I do not believe that people in prison should be treated badly. But I do believe that they should be put to work. Except when locked down they have jobs in prison. Full time work at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 I believe life without parole is a suitable punishment, if it is devoid of pleasures like cable television and movies, etc. It should be a barren and solitary existence, for reflecting on the damage they did to another person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setheus Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Originally posted by sgallan@Dec 10 2005, 03:10 PMYou get a pass I guess given where you've been. But if I want that kind of environment I'd move to Afganistan, Iran, or Saudi Arabia.←What does that mean? I am not saying we need to change the judicial system or take away certain unalienable rights.....I'm saying if you're gonna convict the SOB then follow through with the punishment. Dont sentence life and then let him out in 10. Dont sentence to death and then let him live another 25 years.....do you follow? That is nothing like Afgahnistan, Iran, or Saudi Arabia. In those countries you're guilty until proven innocent. Also, my idea was for the most vicious and hurtful of crimes. I dont believe in sending a thief up the river for life...just the killers, rapists, etc..And one last thing... You dont grant me "a pass...given where I've been" You have no idea in the world where I've been or what I've done. So please dont pretend to have a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 What does that mean? I am not saying we need to change the judicial system or take away certain unalienable rights.....I'm saying if you're gonna convict the SOB then follow through with the punishment. Dont sentence life and then let him out in 10. Dont sentence to death and then let him live another 25 years.....do you follow? That is nothing like Afgahnistan, Iran, or Saudi Arabia. In those countries you're guilty until proven innocent. We are in our own way getting towards that kind of brutality towards our citizens what with our being the leader in incarcerating them. And if you think innocent until proven guilty is a true concept.... try getting charged with a crime and not able to afford a lawyer. Also, my idea was for the most vicious and hurtful of crimes. I dont believe in sending a thief up the river for life...just the killers, rapists, etc..You idea is unconstitutional. You remember a document called the constitution don't you. It is what keeps folks like you from taking away the rights of folks like me..... and vice-versa. And one last thing... You dont grant me "a pass...given where I've been" You have no idea in the world where I've been or what I've done. So please dont pretend to have a clue.I've lurked on this board for years so I know more than you think. And I'll grant any "pass" I **** well please.Setheus was here X (use of profanity) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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