Let's talk about transubstantiation.

[Elgama]

You really believe this? You are truly a good person, but... the act of this worship, according to LDS is an error that has developed from misinterpritating the scriptures. Doesn't this concern you at all?

I can only teach you what I believe, I can tell you why being a Latter Day Saint is the right way to be, why it is the True and Living Church, how it will help you reach the highest eternal potential God has in mind for you, why Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost will bring you closer to God than you have ever imagined, how the Bible and the Book of Mormon and any current revelation go hand in hand to increase your understanding of God, how the ordinances in the Temple will bring your family together and help you progress together,

BUT I am not capable of converting anyone ultimately that is between yourself and the Godhead, until your heart is converted your doing what you can - your ultimate eternal progression is something only yourself and your Heavenly Father can decide. There is no point in getting baptized as a Latter Day Saint if you do not believe its the best way to God, for me that is probably a form of idolatry and would place you under greater condemnation

[Dominic_Korozya]

I can only teach you what I believe, I can tell you why being a Latter Day Saint is the right way to be, why it is the True and Living Church, how it will help you reach the highest eternal potential God has in mind for you, why Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost will bring you closer to God than you have ever imagined, how the Bible and the Book of Mormon and any current revelation go hand in hand to increase your understanding of God, how the ordinances in the Temple will bring your family together and help you progress together,

BUT I am not capable of converting anyone ultimately that is between yourself and the Godhead, until your heart is converted your doing what you can - your ultimate eternal progression is something only yourself and your Heavenly Father can decide. There is no point in getting baptized as a Latter Day Saint if you do not believe its the best way to God, for me that is probably a form of idolatry and would place you under greater condemnation

Okay, Elgama, I see what you are saving.

It is a very healthy and clear way to view the possition of others outside of your faith.

[Elgama]

Okay, Elgama, I see what you are saving.

It is a very healthy and clear way to view the possition of others outside of your faith.

so back to your question I do not believe it because I am a Latter Day Saint, not because its a sin:)

[john doe]

LDS do not believe that the Sacrament of the Lord transforms or changes literally into the body or blood of Christ. We take the Sacrament (consisting today of bread and water) in remembrance of Him, and renew sacred covenants we made when we were baptized.

[Dominic_Korozya]

so back to your question I do not believe it because I am a Latter Day Saint, not because its a sin:)

LOL - you little heretic!

Ahem... I have to get to bed soon! But I've enjoyed this time here on these forums. I think I am registered to about 6 different forum sites by now.

I'll be back here tomorrow.

Bye.

[Dominic_Korozya]

LDS do not believe that the Sacrament of the Lord transforms or changes literally into the body or blood of Christ. We take the Sacrament (consisting today of bread and water) in remembrance of Him, and renew sacred covenants we made when we were baptized.

Jack Chick would agree with you.

[pam]

No idea who Jack Chick is.

[Guest Godless]

Jack Chick is the creator of the controversial "Chick Tracts", comics that denounce everything from evolution to Catholicism to Halloween. I'd post a link, but I'm pretty sure there's a few anti-Mormon comics in his collection as well.

[Dominic_Korozya]

No idea who Jack Chick is.

When you watch Jack Chicks tracks you will see that he is more like a Jehova Witness than a christian. He likes to tell people about the suffering they will endure in hell for an eternaty.

Jack Chick is the creator of the controversial "Chick Tracts", comics that denounce everything from evolution to Catholicism to Halloween. I'd post a link, but I'm pretty sure there's a few anti-Mormon comics in his collection as well.

I think he hasn't missed anyone out, so there most likely are anti-mormon tracks too.

[Guest Godless]

So where's the connection between Jack Chick and John Doe's statement about transubstantiation?

[Dominic_Korozya]

So where's the connection between Jack Chick and John Doe's statement about transubstantiation?

Who is John Doe?

[Guest Godless]

He's the guy who said this:

LDS do not believe that the Sacrament of the Lord transforms or changes literally into the body or blood of Christ. We take the Sacrament (consisting today of bread and water) in remembrance of Him, and renew sacred covenants we made when we were baptized.

To which you replied:

Jack Chick would agree with you.

Where's the connection?

[Dominic_Korozya]

If the Catholic Church did not believe in the transformation of bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus christ, then there would be no mass. There would be no need for us to meet on the Sabbath day. The Church revolves around the Eucharist, it is what we are and what we stand for. Without communion there would be no purpose in me attending Church.

[Dominic_Korozya]

He's the guy who said this:

LDS do not believe that the Sacrament of the Lord transforms or changes literally into the body or blood of Christ. We take the Sacrament (consisting today of bread and water) in remembrance of Him, and renew sacred covenants we made when we were baptized.

To which you replied:

Jack Chick would agree with you.

Where's the connection?

The connection is very clear, the lack of belief and knowledge in scriptural meaning.

[Guest Godless]

Seems more like a question of literalism vs. metaphor to me. I'm still not sure where Chick's hell-talk fits into the equation.

[Dominic_Korozya]

Seems more like a question of literalism vs. metaphor to me. I'm still not sure where Chick's hell-talk fits into the equation.

It's nothingto do with his hell-talk.

Jack Chick believes that communion is just something that should be done for memories sake. The LDS also hold this view. That is the simularity.

[Connie]

I agree with Elgama and i do not doubt your sincerity but transubstantiation does concern me in that i think it puts too much emphasis on a thing, on an object and therefore it's easier for it to become idolatry. That said, "we claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscious, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." (Article of Faith 11) We believe worship is between an individual and God and is not for us to judge.

I can appreciate that we interpret scripture differently. I can see how one could interpret that we have to literally eat the body of Christ, but i do not believe that interpretation. I don't believe Christ meant it literally. It is symbolic, just as sacrificial lambs in the Mosaic law were symbolic. I can appreciate the parallels between the Seder meal and the Passion of Christ, but i don't see why we would have to literally eat the body of Christ just because the Jews literally eat the sacrificial lamb at the Seder meal.

We place as much emphasis on our sacrament as you do on your Eucharist. That is why we go to church. That is why our meeting is called Sacrament Meeting. We are there to partake of the sacrament, remember the atonement and sacrifice of Christ and renew our covenant to take His name upon us and follow Him.

Thank you for the parts of the Chatichism you quoted. That was very interesting and helpful to read.

[john doe]

Jack Chick is a hate artist, and comparing our beliefs to his is considered offensive. You should choose your words more carefully in the future.

[Faded]

You provided these options:

I use to believe that. I use to be Catholic.

It is a sin to believe that.

It could be true.

It is true.

As I was not ever Catholic, option one is out.

As I believe that transubstantiation is a false doctrine, options 3 and 4 are out.

That leaves only one option -- and in that option, I'm expected to call people sinful for believing in an incorrect teaching from the Church they were probably raised in. I don't buy into that being sinful. Being misinformed is not sin.

You need more/better options.

[Dominic_Korozya]

You provided these options:

I use to believe that. I use to be Catholic.

It is a sin to believe that.

It could be true.

It is true.

As I was not ever Catholic, option one is out.

As I believe that transubstantiation is a false doctrine, options 3 and 4 are out.

That leaves only one option -- and in that option, I'm expected to call people sinful for believing in an incorrect teaching from the Church they were probably raised in. I don't buy into that being sinful. Being misinformed is not sin.

You need more/better options.

I cannot edit the poll.

Jack Chick is a hate artist, and comparing our beliefs to his is considered offensive. You should choose your words more carefully in the future.

Jack Chicks view of the bread given out at communion is precisely the same as the view the LDS hold. Jack Chicks denomination is the baptist denomination. He does not believe that the bread and wine become the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

Do not put words into my mouth. I am not in a loving mood today.

[john doe]

Do not put words into my mouth. I am not in a loving mood today.

Words were not put into your mouth. And it would behoove you to find another baptist who agrees with LDS than Jack Chick, because he will be the first to tell you we are going to hell faster than you.

[Dominic_Korozya]

Words were not put into your mouth. And it would behoove you to find another baptist who agrees with LDS than Jack Chick, because he will be the first to tell you we are going to hell faster than you.

I do not believe that you are going to hell...

[ADoyle90815]

While I have family members who are Catholic, I wasn't actually raised in that church, so the first option wasn't for me. The reason why Catholics believe in the transubstantiation is there's a Scripture of the Last Supper where Christ takes the unleavened bread and says, "This is My Body" and later takes the wine and says, "This is My Blood." Protestants, and that includes LDS believe that it's symbolic, so when they do Communion or Sacrament as it's known in the LDS church, it's done in memory of Christ. Many denominations use grape juice instead of wine, while others use wine. I don't think believing in transubstantiation is a sin at all, even if I don't fully share that belief.

[Faded]

I do not believe that you are going to hell...

I truly don't 100% understand why, but it's worth noting: If there is any category of denominations that is more fully and completely convinced that Latter Day Saints are doomed to spend eternity in hell, it's the Baptists.

It's a strange thing certainly. We agree with them on their denunciation of infant baptism. We agree with them on transubstantiation. We agree with them on ceasing a long list of Catholic practices. But there is a lot of bitter regard for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints amongst the scholarly elite baptists of the world. Latter Day Saints respect them, but I for one am wary of them.

We're definitely a different animal altogether from them. It doesn't make sense to quote Baptists and tell LDS, "This is what you believe."

Transubstantiation is a drop in the bucket. There are many, many things that we view as false doctrines that have persisted through the ages. The impact of this particular teaching is not nearly as significant as many others. For that reason, you'd be hard pressed to find much attention given to transubstantiation in any talk by a modern Apostle.

[Dominic_Korozya]

For that reason, you'd be hard pressed to find much attention given to transubstantiation in any talk by a modern Apostle.

This is because they have no understanding of the Old Testament.