unclean spirits and sin

[Finrock]

Good evening all! :)

I believe that evil spirits have no influence over us other than to encourage us to act on evil desires we already have in our hearts. Desires that we do not poses in some degree, cannot be influenced. That is why when our hearts are pure we cannot be tempted because there is no evil desire within us, in any degree, for evil spirits to encourage us to act on.

Also, as we give in to our evil desires, they become stronger, therefore making it less "work" that evils spirits must do to encourage us to act on the evil desire in the future. Eventually we need no encouragement from evil spirits to act because our evil desire now possesses us. Consequently, as we act on evil desires we may bring in to our hearts other evil desires that, before giving in, the evil spirits could not tempt us with, but who are now able to manipulate these new desires within us and encourage us to act on them.

On the other end, the Holy Spirit encourages us to act on those good desires we have within us. Even if we are mostly possessed with evil desires, but have any degree good desires within us, the Spirit can encourage us to act on those good desires. If there is no good desire in us, then we have no desire in us that the Holy Spirit can encourage us to act on. We are likely perdition at this point. But, otherwise, if we act on a good desire then our desire to do good increases, even if only a degree. And if we further continue to heed the Spirit's encouragements, our evil desires will give way to the increase of good desires as our capacity for goodness increases. Until eventually our hearts will contain nothing but goodness. This is a pure heart.

Regards,

Finrock

Edited April 9, 2010 by Finrock
Changed wording and grammar to make it flow better. Hopefully...

[Bini]

Do you believe in Heaven and Hell? How about what comes out of each?

Look, I see terrible things every day. A mother drowns her baby. A ten-year-old shoots his father. But it's not demons, it's the evil that men do.

And while its true, we're capable of terrible things; we usually justify it with motives like money and power and jealousy... Then sometimes, something comes along and gives us just the right nudge and we do truly evil things just for the kick of it. Dont believe in demons? You should. They believe in us. Heaven and Hell are right here, behind every wall, every face --

the world behind the world. It's crossing over that's the real trick. That's why most demons can only whisper in our ears. But even a whisper can turn your favorite pleasure into your worst nightmare.

I felt like I was watching a movie-trailer when I read this. It's very intriguing. Sucks you in even.

[Traveler]

you are suggesting i'm wrong? i don't think the events of the first vision were little. thus it did take a lot for evil to attempt to take over joseph. however, i don't believe he was possessed.

when i refer to possession i think of it in the very literal since you read about in the scriptures. the evil spirit does enter the body. not hanging around and trying to "talk us into things" but physically in our bodies with our spirit. i don't watch holly wood versions of this so i can't speak for how accurate i think it may or may not be. knowing what i do of holly wood i'd say it's wrong. i think the person still has some control of themselves. and it makes complete since to me why ppl would think that mental illnesses were possessions.

I am suggesting that you may have underestimated the ease with which a spirit can influence physical things. Joseph had no control over the influence being exerted on him and he did nothing to allow it and everything he could to prevent it.

I personally do not like the term possession. For example we never talk about being possessed by the Holy Ghost. I prefer the term “influenced” to which there is a spectrum of influence rather than an on/off switch. It appears to me that that which is spiritual lacks the “boundaries” we normally seem to associate with self.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Good evening all! :)

I believe that evil spirits have no influence over us other than to encourage us to act on evil desires we already have in our hearts. Desires that we do not poses in some degree, cannot be influenced. That is why when our hearts are pure we cannot be tempted because there is no evil desire within us, in any degree, for evil spirits to encourage us to act on.

....

I suggest you read the account of Joseph Smith's first vision. I think you have misunderstood some very important principles.

The Traveler

[Finrock]

Good evening Traveler! I hope you are enjoying your weekend. :)

I suggest you read the account of Joseph Smith's first vision. I think you have misunderstood some very important principles.

The Traveler

Do you honestly think I haven't read Joseph Smith vision or is this one of those questions where one is subtly suggesting something else? And what very important principles do you think I have misunderstood?

Regards,

Finrock

[marts1]

I believe that evil spirits have no influence over us other than to encourage us to act on evil desires we already have in our hearts.

By this statement it seems you do not believe in an evil spirit possessing the body.

[Finrock]

Hello marts1! Good evening to you. :)

By this statement it seems you do not believe in an evil spirit possessing the body.

Certainly I believe that devils have possessed bodies. I would be denying scripture if I didn't believe it. However, I don't accept that it is a common thing. Satan's power is limited to only what God allows. There are rare exceptions to when God has allowed Satan to have special influence over people, but this isn't the rule. I tend to be very skeptical of any type of possession stories, especially those relating to your generally good, everyday people.

So, I was speaking in a general sense. Of course the more we give in to our evil desires the more influence evil spirits have over us.

Regards,

Finrock

[marts1]

We are in agreement then. I think this is why Traveler was questioning that statement as well.