The Jaredites

[Mirium]

Who are the people talked about in Ether (the Jaredites). What time did they live in relation to the Book of Mormon and where did they travel from and to? I'm a bit confused.

[Hemidakota]

Do you remember the Tower of Babel? These were Semites [children of Shem or the Son of Noah] by birth were hired to build the tower [that lasted over 100 plus years]. Jared brother was called to be a prophet by the Lord during the last protracted build and through his efforts; he saved his kindred and friends from losing the true Adamic language, taught by Noah, and was allowed to posses a land of promise [the Americas].

They traveled from the Land Shinar [iraq] to northern China. From there, it is suspected they landed on the southern western coast of Mexico. There empire expanded from the northern portion of Mexico, perhaps some of which settled even further north and then to Mesa-America, where it is believe Lehi children merged with them.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

Book of Mormon 1996 Mormon

See Chapter 48

[rameumptom]

The Jaredites were a group of people that dwelt near the Tower of Babel. The tower was built about 5 centuries after the Flood. The Jaredites might have been Semites, but we have no definite proof of that one way or the other.

The Jaredites were Asiatics that followed God. Jared and his brother, Mahonri Moriancumer, saw that the Lord was going to stop the tower's progress; and prayed that the Lord would preserve their language (whether spoken, written, or both, we do not know).

Then, the Lord guided them and like minded friends to the New World. There are differing views as to which direction the Jaredites took to the new world. Some think they crossed Asia, perhaps picking up more followers along the way, then crossed the Pacific.

However, the Book of Ether notes that they built ships several times and crossed many waters before building barges to cross the great deep (ocean). Some speculate this may have meant traveling across the Black and Mediterranean Seas.

Eventually, most scholars agree they arrived in what is now known as Central America, probably in southern Mexico. There, they would have blended in with the natives already present, causing them to forget their own religion and beliefs, and forsake the God that brought them to this land. Eventually most of them were wiped out in a great genocidal war, leaving remnants scattered around for the Nephites and others to absorb.

[Hemidakota]

The Jaredites were a group of people that dwelt near the Tower of Babel. The tower was built about 5 centuries after the Flood. The Jaredites might have been Semites, but we have no definite proof of that one way or the other.

The Jaredites were Asiatics that followed God. Jared and his brother, Mahonri Moriancumer, saw that the Lord was going to stop the tower's progress; and prayed that the Lord would preserve their language (whether spoken, written, or both, we do not know).

Then, the Lord guided them and like minded friends to the New World. There are differing views as to which direction the Jaredites took to the new world. Some think they crossed Asia, perhaps picking up more followers along the way, then crossed the Pacific.

However, the Book of Ether notes that they built ships several times and crossed many waters before building barges to cross the great deep (ocean). Some speculate this may have meant traveling across the Black and Mediterranean Seas.

Eventually, most scholars agree they arrived in what is now known as Central America, probably in southern Mexico. There, they would have blended in with the natives already present, causing them to forget their own religion and beliefs, and forsake the God that brought them to this land. .

The last statement I do not agree with since the Jaredites were told to bring many forms of life prior to the journey to this land. Same pattern of Noah in bringing for forms of life to sustain what was removed from the flood. Seeing the amount of time for life to recoup itself for the Americas from the landing of Noah to Jaredites presence during the building of the tower, the Lord even told them bring forth fresh water fishes. Simply not possible any living humans alive in that region.

Being an Asiatic group [based on either a northern areas above Shinar or Asian heritage], that itself would lend in removing the curse of the people who surrounded any clan of Ham and not adding any birthright blessing to Japheth sons. I don’t recall anyone person who had moved to distance land until the tower fell, along with the removal of one common language that made this possible of movement of people to distance land. It would not be word of choice for me to use.

Among the three distinct groups of people dwelt in the same vicinity [perhaps adding the term ‘ites’ to the sons of Noah; Hamites, Jasphethites, and Shemites] , which would be allow to be allowed to come to the Americas?

[rameumptom]

In fact, let's see what the Jaredite record tells us:

1 And it came to pass that Jared and his brother, and their families, and also the friends of Jared and his brother and their families, went down into the valley which was northward, (and the name of the valley was Nimrod, being called after the mighty hunter) with their flocks which they had gathered together, male and female, of every kind. 2 And they did also lay snares and catch fowls of the air; and they did also prepare a vessel, in which they did carry with them the fish of the waters.

3 And they did also carry with them deseret, which, by interpretation, is a honey bee; and thus they did carry with them swarms of bees, and all manner of that which was upon the face of the land, seeds of every kind.

4 And it came to pass that when they had come down into the valley of Nimrod the Lord came down and talked with the brother of Jared; and he was in a cloud, and the brother of Jared saw him not.

5 And it came to pass that the Lord commanded them that they should go forth into the wilderness, yea, into that quarter where there never had man been. And it came to pass that the Lord did go before them, and did talk with them as he stood in a cloud, and gave directions whither they should travel.(Ether 2)

4 And it came to pass that when they had prepared all manner of food, that thereby they might subsist upon the water, and also food for their flocks and herds, and whatsoever beast or animal or fowl that they should carry with them—and it came to pass that when they had done all these things they got aboard of their vessels or barges, and set forth into the sea, commending themselves unto the Lord their God. (Ether 6)

So they gathered fish and bees and stuff to carry "into the wilderness." This is not necessarily to carry over the seas with them, as so many think it means.

Then, when they built the barges for the major trip across the ocean, they did bring their animals, and foodstuffs to subsist upon during the journey. However, it does not mentions fish, bees, or seed.

So, their trip was similar in some ways to Noah, but very different, as well. There was no command to bring foods with them. They did that which was common sense, ensuring that they would have foods they were accustomed to as they traveled along the way. Once they entered the barges for the major ocean voyage, it is very possible they left the bees and fresh water fish behind.

[Hemidakota]

This is where we differ on what we believe. Neither is Ether’s writings detailed enough to account for any real accuracy from the time the families left Shinar to entering the promise land. Even though, I don't blame Ether on this point, noting the chaos and civil strife around him, we are left to the mercy of a condensed version of the Jaredite’s History without seeking a personal answer.

That being the case, we have to wait unto there is a fuller account given in the day to come on what the lands and environment changes left by the deluge, when the families arrived here. Other ponderous questions;

What was the purpose given to them in making preparation before crossing the 'mighty deep'?

How long was the journey from the Tower to the quarter of land never inhabitant by human life prior to the crossing? What was this land called today?

Was there any of those who left on the journey remained behind?

Where was the original landing location?

What was the height of a tree in order to determine the size of the barges built?

And on and on…:)

[thablue718]

Book of Mormon 1996 Mormon

See Chapter 48

Actually they were Hamites , that is Hugh Nibley

hugh nibley says they are the olmecs , and they arrived if you go off zechria sitchin about 3100 b.c.

Edited May 11, 2010 by thablue718

[Hemidakota]

Where is the reference?

[thablue718]

Lehi in the desert, the world of the jaredites , there were jaredites . from the collected works of hugh nibley

[thablue718]

Also zecharia Sitchin the lost realms it is not lds but it is similar to nibley's findings

[Hemidakota]

Since I have most of Hugh's books and already looked at it, I cannot find any connectin between Ham and the Jaredites. Do you have the page or chapter?

There is only two mentions about Ham and his heritage; 'A Twilght World' and 'Egypt Revisited'.

[Hemidakota]

Rmemeber, if the Brother of Jared was called as a Prophet of the Lord, could any member of the Hamnites [Ham children] allowed the priesthood?

Why? ". . . blessed with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed as pertaining to the Priesthood." (Abraham 1:26)

[Hemidakota]

"The discussions concerning the settlement of America are very far from over," he wrote. He noticed that "countless theories…are circulating about the origins of the Olmecs. The physical appearance of the Olmecs is unknown. The great carved heads remain a mystery." Teachings of the Book of Mormon, vol. 4, ch 9, by Hugh Nibley

[thablue718]

"The discussions concerning the settlement of America are very far from over," he wrote. He noticed that "countless theories…are circulating about the origins of the Olmecs. The physical appearance of the Olmecs is unknown. The great carved heads remain a mystery." Teachings of the Book of Mormon, vol. 4, ch 9, by Hugh Nibley

To quote the curse it was Canaan not all of Ham that was cursed remember . It not a mystery you can look at the features and you can notice , just as if you were look at a greek statue is the same

Go check out blacks in the scriptures ,by Darius Gray and Marvin Perkins

Darius was the first african american on the BYU basketball team. and Marvin was a convert shortly after the decleration. it pretty good , videos you will have to buy

[Hemidakota]

Now what does this have to do with the priesthood or receiving the land of Promise? Canaan was a son and children of Ham descendants. Unless, there is any absolute proof point any of Ham children during that era receive the priesthood, I am willing to look at the references.

Neither, looking at the any Olmecs statue will give a source what and how the people of Jared looked like. In the later generations, we simply know, they were already merging with other societies [namely the Mulekites and the children of Lehi]. If they didn’t, they were short and stubby people! Could there be short dwarfs? Sorry…humor here.

However, the findings by the People of Zarahemla when they searched out [Limhi] for the former lands ended up in the same area where the last known battle between the Jaredites took place [Land of Desolation] proved otherwise noting the size of the shields and other oddities were quite large than there own items. Even the Urim and Thummim that belong to the Jaredites did not fit for man of Joseph Smith height but for a person quite larger than him.

[thablue718]

Now what does this have to do with the priesthood or receiving the land of Promise? Canaan was a son and children of Ham descendants. Unless, there is any absolute proof point any of Ham children during that era receive the priesthood, I am willing to look at the references.

Neither, looking at the any Olmecs statue will give a source what and how the people of Jared looked like. In the later generations, we simply know, they were already merging with other societies [namely the Mulekites and the children of Lehi]. If they didn’t, they were short and stubby people! Could there be short dwarfs? Sorry…humor here.

However, the findings by the People of Zarahemla when they searched out [Limhi] for the former lands ended up in the same area where the last known battle between the Jaredites took place [Land of Desolation] proved otherwise noting the size of the shields and other oddities were quite large than there own items. Even the Urim and Thummim that belong to the Jaredites did not fit for man of Joseph Smith height but for a person quite larger than him.

Well the Olmec Society , started about 3100 b.c. and the Mulekites did not show up until 600 bc.

Canaan was the only man Cursed in the Line of Ham not all of Ham Genesis 9 : And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

28 ¶ And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years.

29 And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.

[thablue718]

Well the Olmec Society , started about 3100 b.c. and the Mulekites did not show up until 600 bc.

Canaan was the only man Cursed in the Line of Ham not all of Ham Genesis 9 : And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

28 ¶ And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years.

29 And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.

he did not say all of Ham sons

All so how did ham marry a cainite woman , Ham was also know as a son of God

[Hemidakota]

Well the Olmec Society , started about 3100 b.c. and the Mulekites did not show up until 600 bc.

Canaan was the only man Cursed in the Line of Ham not all of Ham Genesis 9 : And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

28 ¶ And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years.

29 And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.

I am always curious how we date artifacts when historical events don't even match up. Let you know, this predates the building of the Tower of Babel and the flood. Is there any information how these people traveled from Mesopotamia when there is no record? Not likely…

So, you are stating the Jaredites are not from the loins of Canaan but another son of Ham? Which son? Was it Cush, Mizraim, or Phut? Then, we have the daughter of Ham, Egyptus that is rarely mentioned accept in the Book of Abraham.

Why would Noah curse Canaan directly when it was Ham who stole the garments or covered the nakedness of his father? Lacking clarity from Genesis and the hands it passed through, there is missing elements here that Canaan deserves it as much as Ham his father. The Book of Jubilees goes into detail what was missing but for the church, this is not considered canonize scripture.

And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

Ham was the culprit here and not Canaan who received not the blessings of the Priesthood. Canaan was cursed based on his taking lands that were not his to begin with. Noah, according the Book of Jubilees, divided the earth among his three sons; Canaan decided the land where current Israel, Syria, Jordan, was his. This was given to Shem children. Missing information is helpful to determine the story behind Canaan cursing by his grandfather since he was not there with the incident of Noah. Edited May 11, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

he did not say all of Ham sons

All so how did ham marry a cainite woman , Ham was also know as a son of God

This was asked by a member to President Joseph Fielding Smith, (A Way to Perfection, p. 103-104) which is my same sentiments;

It is generally believed that the curse placed on Cain was continued in his posterity and that through the seed of Ham this curse was brought through the flood. Since Ham was the son of Noah, we must conclude that it was not Ham who had the black skin and was a descendant of Cain. However, there is in the Church the general belief that Ham married a woman who was a descendant of Cain, and in this way the curse of Cain was continued after the flood in Ham's posterity. Some of the brethren who were associated with the Prophet Joseph Smith have declared that he taught this doctrine. That the wife of Ham was a descendant of Cain seems to be embodied in the following passages in the Book of Abraham:

Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.

From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.

The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden.

When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterwards settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang the race which preserved the curse in the land.-Abraham 1:21-24.

GOD only did this to preserve the Cain race from total destruction. What a merciful FATHER we have. Joseph Smith has left very little on record in his own words outside of the Pearl of Great Price. During the course of a discussion in Nauvoo in 1842, on the question as to whether blacks [negroes] or Native Americans [indians] have received the greater ill-treatment from the whites, the Prophet Joseph said:

"The Indians have greater cause to complain of the treatment of the whites, than the negroes, or sons of Cain." (D. H. C. 4:501.)

Edited May 11, 2010 by Hemidakota

[thablue718]

This was asked by a member to President Joseph Fielding Smith, (A Way to Perfection, p. 103-104) which is my same sentiments;

It is generally believed that the curse placed on Cain was continued in his posterity and that through the seed of Ham this curse was brought through the flood. Since Ham was the son of Noah, we must conclude that it was not Ham who had the black skin and was a descendant of Cain. However, there is in the Church the general belief that Ham married a woman who was a descendant of Cain, and in this way the curse of Cain was continued after the flood in Ham's posterity. Some of the brethren who were associated with the Prophet Joseph Smith have declared that he taught this doctrine. That the wife of Ham was a descendant of Cain seems to be embodied in the following passages in the Book of Abraham:

Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.

From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.

The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden.

When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterwards settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang the race which preserved the curse in the land.-Abraham 1:21-24.

GOD only did this to preserve the Cain race from total destruction. What a merciful FATHER we have. Joseph Smith has left very little on record in his own words outside of the Pearl of Great Price. During the course of a discussion in Nauvoo in 1842, on the question as to whether blacks [negroes] or Native Americans [indians] have received the greater ill-treatment from the whites, the Prophet Joseph said:

"The Indians have greater cause to complain of the treatment of the whites, than the negroes, or sons of Cain." (D. H. C. 4:501.)

But how can Someone say who has more right to complain about any crimes of humanity . the are all bad

[Hemidakota]

Agreed...but he saw more than what was his day on the treatment of both group of people.

You forget, Joseph was full aware of the Indians [Lamanites, Jaredites, Mulekites, Nephites, perhaps others] and historical past of this earth from two known sources; in his youth, Moroni taught him, along with others who visited the young boy, showed him the past Americas [see Lucy Mack Smith journals].

Later, in the Johnston home, he viewed the beginnings of the universe, the galaxy, our earth, its history, along with Sydney. Most of which is now written, except portions where the Spirit told him not to write, is in the D&C section 76.

Much later, he saw the future of this land where the Lord revealed it by 'piece meals' on what will befall this land [see JS journals beyond 1842].

[rameumptom]

The Jaredites were clearly Semites. The Olmec heads prove nothing regarding to race. It is way to simplistic to equate giant stone Olmec heads with Hamites, simply because they have some African American look to them. Know what? They also look Tongan/Samoan. Do we want to claim that Tongans are Hamites?

Let's not go there.

Secondly, there obviously was no "curse" on the Jaredites, as the Lord was cursing everyone else there at the Tower.

Next, how do we know there weren't people already here? Archaeology pretty much proves that most Native Americans are descended from the Clovis people, who came over the Bering Strait ice bridge. The Jaredites were just one group who came over. They had a period of power when they obtained the throne, and then other families (likely not biologically Jaredites) attempted to regain the throne for themselves.

Just because Olmecs and Jaredites may have been around in the same timeframe, does not mean they were the same peoples. Or it is possible that the Jaredites were just a small portion of the peoples that made up the Olmecs.

History and culture are never as cut and dried as we often try to make them. When the Jaredites killed each other, were they all destroyed? No. However, as a nation they were destroyed. We have proof in that Coriantumr dwelt with the Mulekites for 9 moons. During that time, he could have engendered children.

In fact, I propose that the Mulekites were in fact, at one time, cultural Jaredites. They landed in Jaredite territory. By the time King Mosiah I found them, they lost their language, lost God, and had been in violent wars. Those violent wars caused them to flee and to establish themselves in a new place, with a chief city of Zarahemla. Guess what? Zarahemla the man was still alive when Mosiah showed up! He gave his genealogy to Mosiah. This means that the city of Zarahemla, which might have been 50 years old, was created in the time period of the last Jaredite destructions. The Jaredites destroyed themselves ca 200 BC, not 600 BC, otherwise Coriantumr could not have dwelt with them.

How did they lose their Hebrew language and religion? By dwelling among the Jaredites for centuries. They kept a portion of their culture, but lost most of it. It also happens that at this time, when the Nephites absorb the Mulekites, that they begin having Jaredite names among them and Jaredite intrigue, secret combinations, and wars.

History is messy, complex, conjoined, and convoluted.

[Blackmarch]

Who are the people talked about in Ether (the Jaredites). What time did they live in relation to the Book of Mormon and where did they travel from and to? I'm a bit confused.

they originated shortly after the tower of babel.. whenever that was, and wherever that was.

[Hemidakota]

Next, how do we know there weren't people already here? Archaeology pretty much proves that most Native Americans are descended from the Clovis people, who came over the Bering Strait ice bridge. The Jaredites were just one group who came over. They had a period of power when they obtained the throne, and then other families (likely not biologically Jaredites) attempted to regain the throne for themselves.

I will point out, I think it goes back to who was first here in the Americas after the deluge. No doubt, until we have the sealed portion of the plates, it remains a speculation of whether the Clovis people came before the Jaredites.

However, I do believe like you, as others came across the Being Staits after the fact. Even other culture, made their way here by sea when Lehi cross the ocean.

In fact, I propose that the Mulekites were in fact, at one time, cultural Jaredites. They landed in Jaredite territory. By the time King Mosiah I found them, they lost their language, lost God, and had been in violent wars. Those violent wars caused them to flee and to establish themselves in a new place, with a chief city of Zarahemla. Guess what? Zarahemla the man was still alive when Mosiah showed up! He gave his genealogy to Mosiah. This means that the city of Zarahemla, which might have been 50 years old, was created in the time period of the last Jaredite destructions. The Jaredites destroyed themselves ca 200 BC, not 600 BC, otherwise Coriantumr could not have dwelt with them.

Concur...like you, I believe they did the same and escaped south to avoid the current civic strife in the land northward. Ram what are your thoughts on the Mulekites landing on the eastern shores of Mexico and may had followed the coastal regions of North America prior to landing?

Talking about the last battle (Battle of Cumorah), something that was missed by even the FAIR scholars, seeing where they believe the last battle was fought among the Jaredites and Nephite, was a statue or stellar, stating the nature of the area as sacred ground. This was found on a neighboring mountain top not far from the speculated battle site presented. Now that was close premonition of finding the site by the FAIR scholars. I need to go to my notes later when time permits, to see who made the discovery and what was written on the statue or stellar. When you look at the area, there are considerable military advantages that Mormon could had used the site where the statue or Stella was left; size for his army to control the ridge crests, hosting his rear supplies, reserves, and easy escape route, terrain factor (notable ‘U’ shape entrenchment by surrounding hills to control the offending army as it approaches), height of mountainous area (recon the valley below in seeing a foreseeable army approaching).