James Strang And False Prophets

[SarahMaree]

Hey y'all- I started reading this book called "The King of Beaver Island" and it's about this guy James Strang. He claimed to be the next prophet following Joseph Smith's assassination, and he had this whole competition going with Brigham Young. He formed a new "Zion" on some island in Wisconsin and had a whole bunch of followers while everyone else was heading west, and he basically formed like a royalty system where he was king.

Has anyone ever heard of him before? My friend said that we never talk about false prophets, but he just seemed like he was such a big deal that I'm surprised I've never heard of him before.

I think that it's beneficial to study people like this in church history, because you can see just how they influence people to follow them. Do y'all think that it's better to just never mention them?

[LionHeart]

Originally posted by SarahMaree@Jan 5 2006, 08:42 PM

Hey y'all- I started reading this book called "The King of Beaver Island" and it's about this guy James Strang. He claimed to be the next prophet following Joseph Smith's assassination, and he had this whole competition going with Brigham Young. He formed a new "Zion" on some island in Wisconsin and had a whole bunch of followers while everyone else was heading west, and he basically formed like a royalty system where he was king.

Has anyone ever heard of him before? My friend said that we never talk about false prophets, but he just seemed like he was such a big deal that I'm surprised I've never heard of him before.

I think that it's beneficial to study people like this in church history, because you can see just how they influence people to follow them. Do y'all think that it's better to just never mention them?

←

Yes, I have heard of him before. If my memory serves me correctly, it seems like Oliver Cowdery was one of the men who followed him. If I'm wrong about this, I would welcome being set straight.

I think it is beneficial to study those people, because it gives you the opportunity to decide what is right and what is wrong.

[Palerider]

lets see......there was Emma who went her way and then Sydney Rigdon went and started a church....and a host of others......

[Snow]

There's still a few Strangites around.

They had an odd website until a couple years ago then somehow it was taken over my a rare Mormon book dealer. Now they have their website back and it's not bad. They claim to have 140 members and no living prophet.

[Red]

Originally posted by Palerider@Jan 5 2006, 09:58 PM

lets see......there was Emma who went her way and then Sydney Rigdon went and started a church....and a host of others......

←

...among them would've also been 6 of the 11 witnesses to the BoM, including Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdrey and David Whitmer to name a few...

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Palerider@Jan 5 2006, 07:58 PM

lets see......there was Emma who went her way and then Sydney Rigdon went and started a church....and a host of others......

Here's a list of Latter Day Saint churches and sects:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints* (Largest--12 million members worldwide)

Community of Christ† (2nd Largest--250 thousand)

Restoration Branches (seperate organizations, but part of the 250 thousand)

Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Church of Christ (Temple Lot)

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)

Aaronic Order

Apostolic United Brethren

Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)

Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)

Church of Christ with the Elijah Message

Church of Jesus Christ in Zion

Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Restored Church of Jesus Christ

Sons Aumen Israel

True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latter_day_sa...rches_and_sects

M.

[Aristotle]

Since this topic is about false prophets and sects, I would just like to add to Maureen's post that the only true latter day saint church which exists today is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; therefore, it should not be listed among the other sects, in my opinion.

[Palerider]

Martin Harris did not go and start his own church up unlike several of the others....its also very important to point out Martin Harris even though he left the Church he did not deny his Testimony of the Church....

[Josie]

To my knowledge none of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon ever denied it to be true, even those that left the Church. What is important to remember is that most of those that left the Church did so with lack of understanding. Atleast many did. They did not know the laws of God or the Church well enough to understand who the next prophet was to be or how he was to be chosen. Brigham Young was the President of the Quorum of the Twelve and he was called of God to lead the people West out of the mobs and persecution.

As far as Emma, part of the reason she stayed behind was to take care of her mother and although men with beliefs of how things should be done convinced her that her son should be the next prophet, I don't know that we can hold her completely accountable for her decisions. She never denied the truthfulness of the Church or the Book of Mormon. That woman had been through much in her short life and had just lost her husband at the hands of a mob while he was in jail on trumped up charges. She had young children and so very much on her and had had for many years.

As far as all the different sects out there that claim the name of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in one way or another, we all realize that they do not have the fulness of the gospel as we have, nor a true prophet of God. They can call themselves anything they want too, but that does not make it so...

[srm]

Originally posted by SarahMaree@Jan 5 2006, 06:42 PM

Hey y'all- I started reading this book called "The King of Beaver Island" and it's about this guy James Strang. He claimed to be the next prophet following Joseph Smith's assassination, and he had this whole competition going with Brigham Young. He formed a new "Zion" on some island in Wisconsin and had a whole bunch of followers while everyone else was heading west, and he basically formed like a royalty system where he was king.

Has anyone ever heard of him before? My friend said that we never talk about false prophets, but he just seemed like he was such a big deal that I'm surprised I've never heard of him before.

I think that it's beneficial to study people like this in church history, because you can see just how they influence people to follow them. Do y'all think that it's better to just never mention them?

←

I love Strang's quote (on his deathbed) when asked about succession in the leadership of his church.

"I don't want to talk about it"

[Snow]

Originally posted by Maureen+Jan 5 2006, 10:34 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Palerider@Jan 5 2006, 07:58 PM

lets see......there was Emma who went her way and then Sydney Rigdon went and started a church....and a host of others......

Here's a list of Latter Day Saint churches and sects:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints* (Largest--12 million members worldwide)

Community of Christ† (2nd Largest--250 thousand)

Restoration Branches (seperate organizations, but part of the 250 thousand)

Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

...

M.

←

Of course that is a very misleading list (since the intention of the post is show how splintered the LDS Church is - yes Maureen?)

For example, one group was a non-denomination Christian group that was formed and then disbanded about 10 years later and another group does not consider themselves "Mormon" but rather a ressurrection of ancient Essene Christianity and influenced by Mormonism, Gnosticism (especially Valentinian Gnosticism), Mandaeanism, Manichaeism, and New Age ideas.

But - hey, I only checked two.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Snow@Jan 7 2006, 12:09 AM

Of course that is a very misleading list (since the intention of the post is show how splintered the LDS Church is - yes Maureen?)

For example, one group was a non-denomination Christian group that was formed and then disbanded about 10 years later and another group does not consider themselves "Mormon" but rather a ressurrection of ancient Essene Christianity and influenced by Mormonism, Gnosticism (especially Valentinian Gnosticism), Mandaeanism, Manichaeism, and New Age ideas.

But - hey, I only checked two.

Originally posted by SarahMaree

Has anyone ever heard of him before? My friend said that we never talk about false prophets, but he just seemed like he was such a big deal that I'm surprised I've never heard of him before.

Snow, the intention of your post may have been to bring up the fact that there are several splintered sect of the LDS church but my post in making the list from wikipedia was to show SarahMaree that not only are there the Strangites but a host of other groups who claim to be affiliated with some type of Latter Day Saint theology or idea. SarahMaree was quite surprised that the Strangites existed, I'm sure she would be even surprised to see the other sects. The one sect I find quite interesting is the Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. For me, melding Pentecostal influences with LDS influences is bewildering. Both sects have such different styles that to put them both together is very strange, IMO.

M.

[SarahMaree]

Originally posted by Maureen+Jan 7 2006, 04:17 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Snow@Jan 7 2006, 12:09 AM

Of course that is a very misleading list (since the intention of the post is show how splintered the LDS Church is - yes Maureen?)

For example, one group was a non-denomination Christian group that was formed and then disbanded about 10 years later and another group does not consider themselves "Mormon" but rather a ressurrection of ancient Essene Christianity and influenced by Mormonism, Gnosticism (especially Valentinian Gnosticism), Mandaeanism, Manichaeism, and New Age ideas.

But - hey, I only checked two.

Originally posted by SarahMaree

Has anyone ever heard of him before? My friend said that we never talk about false prophets, but he just seemed like he was such a big deal that I'm surprised I've never heard of him before.

Snow, the intention of your post may have been to bring up the fact that there are several splintered sect of the LDS church but my post in making the list from wikipedia was to show SarahMaree that not only are there the Strangites but a host of other groups who claim to be affiliated with some type of Latter Day Saint theology or idea. SarahMaree was quite surprised that the Strangites existed, I'm sure she would be even surprised to see the other sects. The one sect I find quite interesting is the Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. For me, melding Pentecostal influences with LDS influences is bewildering. Both sects have such different styles that to put them both together is very strange, IMO.

M.

←

Maureen- I appreciate the information. I wasn't surprised that they existed- I've always known that there were different sects, just like with many other churches. I was just surprised I had never heard of him, which is probably due to my deficiency in church history knowledge

[Shaliach]

Is there any evidence that Strang was a false prophet?

[goofball]

By my works ye shall no me. How did that work out for strange?

A very sarcastic remark so I hope I dont offend

[rameumptom]

Strang never really did give much as to prophecies that I'm aware of, except to continue polygamy and have himself ordained king.

Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris left the Church, but returned to it after Joseph's death. Neither followed the Strangites, as both left the Church in 1838 and stayed separate during those last years before the martyrdom of Joseph. Oliver was in the process of moving to Salt Lake, visiting David Whitmer and encouraging him to return as well, when he died of an illness. Martin Harris moved out to Utah and on his death bed gave his last testimony of the book of Mormon.

The majority of LDS that did not follow Brigham Young did not follow Strang. I believe William Smith did for a time, but then left him to help begin the RLDS.

[Maureen]

By my works ye shall no me. How did that work out for strange?

It appears he is known, since we're talking about him. How did it work out for him? Not well, he was eventually murdered, but then again so was Joseph Smith.

M.

[Maureen]

Strang never really did give much as to prophecies that I'm aware of, except to continue polygamy and have himself ordained king.

Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris left the Church, but returned to it after Joseph's death. Neither followed the Strangites, as both left the Church in 1838 and stayed separate during those last years before the martyrdom of Joseph. Oliver was in the process of moving to Salt Lake, visiting David Whitmer and encouraging him to return as well, when he died of an illness. Martin Harris moved out to Utah and on his death bed gave his last testimony of the book of Mormon.

The majority of LDS that did not follow Brigham Young did not follow Strang. I believe William Smith did for a time, but then left him to help begin the RLDS.

To back his claim, Strang produced a "Letter of Appointment" allegedly from Smith, carrying a Nauvoo postmark and dated June 18, 1844....

Strang's letter convinced several eminent Mormons of his claims. Book of Mormon witnesses John and David Whitmer, Martin Harris and Hiram Page, Apostles John E. Page, William E. M'Lellin, and William Smith, Smith's sisters, Nauvoo Stake President William Marks, Bishop George Miller, and Joseph Smith's mother, Lucy Mack Smith, with others, accepted Strang at first. Lucy Smith wrote to one Reuben Hedlock: "I am satisfied that Joseph appointed J.J. Strang. It is verily so."[23] According to Joseph Smith's brother William, all of his family (except for Hyrum and Samuel Smith's widows), initially endorsed Strang.[23]

About 12,000 Latter Day Saints ultimately accepted Strang's claims.[26] However, not all of these followed him to Beaver Island in Lake Michigan, where Strang's headquarters was moved in 1848. Most of his initial adherents, including all of those listed above (with the exception of George Miller, who remained loyal to Strang until death), would leave Strang's church before his demise. John E. Page departed in July of 1849, accusing Strang of dictatorial tendencies and concurring with Bennett's furtive "Illuminati" order.[27] Martin Harris had broken with Strang by January of 1847,[28] after a failed mission to England. Hiram Page and the Whitmers also left around this time....

James Strang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

M.

[Casslan]

Both Martin Harris and Oliver Cowdrey were re-baptised into the LDS Church, Oliver died before he could head west with the saints, and Martin died in Utah.

[rameumptom]

It appears he is known, since we're talking about him. How did it work out for him? Not well, he was eventually murdered, but then again so was Joseph Smith.

M.

The difference being that Joseph Smith was murdered by a mob, while under Governor Ford's protection. James Strang was killed by three or four former Strangites that he had insulted and enraged.

Why would God turn the Church over to a person who had only joined the Church months before (in 1844), when the Lord had been preparing leaders for almost 20 years? It makes much more sense for God to have chosen Brigham Young, Sidney Rigdon or JSIII than James Strang. The fact that there isn't a new prophet leading the Strangites in 150 years, suggests that this dog doesn't hunt.

As for the various followers of Joseph Smith that followed Strang, almost all left him and rejoined either the LDS or RLDS church. Obviously, they discovered he wasn't called of God, as he claimed.

Many of his teachings were extremely different than Joseph's, as noted in the wikipedia article on James Strang.

It has been determined that the letter of appointment has a forged signature of Joseph Smith. And it is interesting that his insistence that his successor would have to be ordained by an angel has never happened. Obviously, this sect is going to be gone within a couple more generations, unless someone has an angel visit him.

The Book of the Law of the Lord is supposedly the plates of Laban, but that cannot be, as the plates of Laban had not only the writings of Moses, but also Isaiah, Zenock, Zenos, Neum, Jeremiah and other prophets.

[rameumptom]

About 12,000 Latter Day Saints ultimately accepted Strang's claims.[26] However, not all of these followed him to Beaver Island in Lake Michigan, where Strang's headquarters was moved in 1848. Most of his initial adherents, including all of those listed above (with the exception of George Miller, who remained loyal to Strang until death), would leave Strang's church before his demise. John E. Page departed in July of 1849, accusing Strang of dictatorial tendencies and concurring with Bennett's furtive "Illuminati" order.[27] Martin Harris had broken with Strang by January of 1847,[28] after a failed mission to England. Hiram Page and the Whitmers also left around this time....

James Strang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

M.

Did the 12,000 come from the LDS Church, or did Strang's missionary work bring in the majority of those 12,000? The article does not say.

[DigitalShadow]

I've been to Beaver Island before, in fact I used to spend my summers there when I was young. There's really not much there now aside from aside from a Michigan State University biological outpost where my grandfather did a lot of his research. I had heard stories about King Strang, but I never knew there was any connection with LDS.

Anyway, just wanted to say that the island is actually pretty nice if you like nature and is no longer inhabited by Strangites.

Edited July 14, 2008 by DigitalShadow

[Misshalfway]

To my knowledge none of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon ever denied it to be true, even those that left the Church. What is important to remember is that most of those that left the Church did so with lack of understanding. Atleast many did. They did not know the laws of God or the Church well enough to understand who the next prophet was to be or how he was to be chosen. Brigham Young was the President of the Quorum of the Twelve and he was called of God to lead the people West out of the mobs and persecution.

As far as Emma, part of the reason she stayed behind was to take care of her mother and although men with beliefs of how things should be done convinced her that her son should be the next prophet, I don't know that we can hold her completely accountable for her decisions. She never denied the truthfulness of the Church or the Book of Mormon. That woman had been through much in her short life and had just lost her husband at the hands of a mob while he was in jail on trumped up charges. She had young children and so very much on her and had had for many years.

As far as all the different sects out there that claim the name of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in one way or another, we all realize that they do not have the fulness of the gospel as we have, nor a true prophet of God. They can call themselves anything they want too, but that does not make it so...

This has always fascinated me. They could get mad at Joseph, or get upset over management or get offended and even leave the church over it all, but never go so far as to deny the truthfulness of the BofM.

During all my time struggling with whether or not there was a God and what the heck I was going to do with the church, I always came back to the BofM. To this day it is still the stongest element of my testimony concerning this restored gospel.

And just a note concerning Emma..... I can't imagine what that women endured! There are probably dimensions of suffering that only she could know. And considering Father's understanding of the hearts of women and his reverence towards such, I have wondered if God understood and accepted her offering as enough and then let her live out her life in a quieter place of peace.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Misshalfway

[Shaliach]

Why would God turn the Church over to a person who had only joined the Church months before (in 1844), when the Lord had been preparing leaders for almost 20 years?

Then again, why would God decide that a relatively uneducated lad should receive the BoM and restore the church? That knife cuts both ways.

It makes much more sense for God to have chosen Brigham Young, Sidney Rigdon or JSIII than James Strang.

It would also have made more sense for God to have chosen someone more learned and respected than Joseph Smith. But God doesn't work that way, does He?

The fact that there isn't a new prophet leading the Strangites in 150 years, suggests that this dog doesn't hunt.

That is akin to saying that because there weren't any legitimate representatives of Christ on earth after the deaths of the Apostles that this must mean the original twelve Apostles "don't hunt". Its a rather weak assertion.

[rameumptom]

Why would God turn the Church over to a person who had only joined the Church months before (in 1844), when the Lord had been preparing leaders for almost 20 years?

Then again, why would God decide that a relatively uneducated lad should receive the BoM and restore the church? That knife cuts both ways.

Ram: The difference is that no one had the authority when Joseph Smith arrived on scene. But in 1844, there were many leaders that the Lord could choose from. It didn't make sense that the Lord would grab someone who had little/no experience in leading in the Church, serving in any of the councils, or was trained extensively (as were the Twelve) prior to his death.

It makes much more sense for God to have chosen Brigham Young, Sidney Rigdon or JSIII than James Strang.

It would also have made more sense for God to have chosen someone more learned and respected than Joseph Smith. But God doesn't work that way, does He?

Ram: No, it wouldn't have. God uses the weak things of the world. The Bible and Book of Mormon shows that God usually uses a pattern for choosing prophets. When no one is around, angelic intervention is used. Otherwise, the authority is passed, as Jesus passed his authority to the apostles of his day; or Elijah passed it to Elisha (who had followed him for years). That pattern would have been disrupted had God chosen Strang out of nowhere.

The fact that there isn't a new prophet leading the Strangites in 150 years, suggests that this dog doesn't hunt.

That is akin to saying that because there weren't any legitimate representatives of Christ on earth after the deaths of the Apostles that this must mean the original twelve Apostles "don't hunt". Its a rather weak assertion.

Ram: That doesn't make sense. Your assertion is opposite my statement. My assertion isn't that the original Twelve or prophet were false. My assertion is the succession of priesthood authority is necessary. Once again, there is a pattern that was set anciently, and the Strangite Church does not follow that pattern. Christ left the Church to the apostles, who did ordain other apostles as necessary to replace those who died. Unfortunately, they became spread out so far and were killed in such distant places that eventually it became impossible for the quorum to reunite and restore itself.

Just as in the case with Strang, where the full authority did not outlast him, IF he were a true prophet, then their current church must be in an apostasy, as we believe happened with the primitive church.