LDS and a Catholic

[stcalixtus]

My personal viewpoint of LDS is one of admiration:) we have many things in common...gay marriage? both of our churchs are against:) my bottom line is so many are Godless...I mean no belief in God at all:mellow: I feel at least we are on the same page.I know of so many good LDS here in Idaho, let us not stand divided against those whole totally refuse to repent, God bless you and peace be with you my brothers and sisters:)

[pam]

Do you have some legit statistics that many are Godless? Those I know that are gay it is quite the opposite. They have a great belief in God. Many are very religious. Just because their idea may not coincide with yours or mine as LDS or Catholic doesn't mean that they are Godless.

[stcalixtus]

Do you have some legit statistics that many are Godless? Those I know that are gay it is quite the opposite. They have a great belief in God. Many are very religious. Just because their idea may not coincide with yours or mine as LDS or Catholic doesn't mean that they are Godless.

yes I agree, maybe you misunderstand me? Godless= those who do not believe in a higher power whether they be gay, hetrosexual, bi sexual,transsexual, hispanic, caucasian, native american,martian,Austrian,Syrian...whatever.... I mean those that refuse God.I have no problem with gays as long as they do not sin including gay Catholic priests that are not celibate. bear in mind gay sex is no greater than or less than fornication..or adultery:mellow: those that I know are gay...in general tend to hate Christians...too bad as I do not hate them...I pray for their salvation:) Edited May 19, 2010 by stcalixtus

[ThePassenger]

those that I know are gay...in general tend to hate Christians...too bad as I do not hate them...I pray for their salvation

Don't do that. Let them pray to the Allmighty themselves. Let them ask for forgiveness by themselves. Let them find to God by themselves. Will you pray for an animal? Why should you pray for a man that behaves like an animal?

I won't. And I'm convinced that no man should claim the right to ask the Allmighty for forgiveness for those ones who have sinned in such an abominable way. The body of a man is the temple of the Lord. Those ones have tainted this temple.

[Soulsearcher]

those that I know are gay...in general tend to hate Christians...too bad as I do not hate them...I pray for their salvation

Don't do that. Let them pray to the Allmighty themselves. Let them ask for forgiveness by themselves. Let them find to God by themselves. Will you pray for an animal? Why should you pray for a man that behaves like an animal?

I won't. And I'm convinced that no man should claim the right to ask the Allmighty for forgiveness for those ones who have sinned in such an abominable way. The body of a man is the temple of the Lord. Those ones have tainted this temple.

A man that behaves like an animal? HMMMMMM pretty sure i haven't heard those words out of a prophets mouth ever. As for gays being godless, well you have a few on this site who aren't so maybe you should take your foot out of your mouth lol. Both of you.

Oh and welcome to the site.

[ThePassenger]

Oh and welcome to the site.

thanks a lot, "Soulsearcher". (already found it? Your own soul?)

I don't know if there is anythyng wrong with you, but I like to spend the whole day with my feet in my mouth. Everyone here in Hamburg does it. Everyone here in Germany. We don't have anything else to do. We are like that.

So, now that you might have got an imagination about us, let me reply:

Better your feet in your mouth than doing things you seem to have some kind of affinity to. Ha, ha. Guess what I mean? I know this is hard on the edge, but you started it. And now get it back.

[yorkiebeebs]

This sounds like a hate post. I don't like what I'm reading.

[Soulsearcher]

This sounds like a hate post. I don't like what I'm reading.

Sadly what some people see as the response to homosexuals, as a people they are abominations and there for targets. Glad LDS members follow their prophet and know a lot better than that.

[ThePassenger]

Glad LDS members follow their prophet and know a lot better than that.

__________________

But again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty you need only look into a mirror.

LDS members follow the Allmighty's truth. And what about the Allmightys opinion regarding homosexuality? Which sources do we have? Shall I tell you? Even the Evangelical Church in Germany admits, that homosexuality is not admissibled even by the Holy Bible. It's against the will of God. And what do you mean by saying: "Glad LDS members follow their prophet and know a lot better than that." What does it mean? You simply want to offend them? In several boards / panels / forums here in Germany I've spoken against the legalization of homosexual marriage. That would be the next step in your mind, the next demand?

This is not hate, but it's more to bring ones like you back to reality. See California. Prop. 8 supporters have won. You're on the river's wrong side, vom anderen Ufer, how we use to say here.

And don't come with your bloody mirror allegory. Everybody is guilty in some ways, the one more, the other one less. And, sometimes it depends on the mirror (remember one fairy tale...).

[ThePassenger]

This sounds like a hate post. I don't like what I'm reading.

Reply With Quote

And I don't like many things, either. I don't like people starving, I don't like people exploited, and I don't like this and that. But who asks me? Has one asked you? "Hate post" - your comment is also interpretable as a hate post. For me, e.g., it is. It always depends.

[prisonchaplain]

This string is dangerously close to being closed. The original poster's topic is that catholics and lds have much in common, and should respect one another, rather than arguing against each other. The ban on homosexual behavior was merely an example of commonality, not an invitation to derail the conversation into yet another gay marriage string, complete with personal digs.

Rather than close the string, perhaps some would like to salvage this, and offer responses to what seems to me to be a tossing of an olive branch???

[UrbanFool]

This is as disturbing as the other thread. I'm going back to my Twilight themed Cafe World.

[yorkiebeebs]

This sounds like a hate post. I don't like what I'm reading.

Reply With Quote

And I don't like many things, either. I don't like people starving, I don't like people exploited, and I don't like this and that. But who asks me? Has one asked you? "Hate post" - your comment is also interpretable as a hate post. For me, e.g., it is. It always depends.

I'm sorry that I commented. I guess I haven't been here long enough and no one knows me so it was probably inappropriate of me to do so.

[Soulsearcher]

I'm sorry that I commented. I guess I haven't been here long enough and no one knows me so it was probably inappropriate of me to do so.

Not at all, your comment was fine, it's how you read the situation and you made a comment :)

[Cassiopeia]

Don't do that. Let them pray to the Allmighty themselves.

I will pray for any who struggles in this life. They are a child of God no matter their choices.

Sadly what some people see as the response to homosexuals, as a people they are abominations and there for targets. Glad LDS members follow their prophet and know a lot better than that.

The gay community is not an abomination. They are people who make a choice that is considered an abomination. They of themselves are children of our Father in Heaven and if we are to reach them and help them in their trials, it is up to us to extend them our love and compassion.

As to the OP, I am glad to have you aboard. Welcome. I was once Catholic and I am now LDS. I find it makes a lot of sense to me. Had I not found the church I would still be Catholic. We do share much in common. :)

[yorkiebeebs]

I will pray for any who struggles in this life. They are a child of God no matter their choices.

The gay community is not an abomination. They are people who make a choice that is considered an abomination. They of themselves are children of our Father in Heaven and if we are to reach them and help them in their trials, it is up to us to extend them our love and compassion.

As to the OP, I am glad to have you aboard. Welcome. I was once Catholic and I am now LDS. I find it makes a lot of sense to me. Had I not found the church I would still be Catholic. We do share much in common. :)

Thank you for this reply. I totally agree.

[todd520]

To get this back on track, I'm an ex Catholic recently Baptized LDS

I went to Catholic school but then lapsed for several decades.

Since I was a lapsed Catholic and am new to LDS, my theology is weak but growing.

I only see similarities between the two faiths and am shocked how some feel we are incompatible.

[SteveVH]

I will pray for any who struggles in this life. They are a child of God no matter their choices.

The gay community is not an abomination. They are people who make a choice that is considered an abomination. They of themselves are children of our Father in Heaven and if we are to reach them and help them in their trials, it is up to us to extend them our love and compassion.

As to the OP, I am glad to have you aboard. Welcome. I was once Catholic and I am now LDS. I find it makes a lot of sense to me. Had I not found the church I would still be Catholic. We do share much in common. :)

This is my first post on this forum so forgive me for butting in here. I think what we have in common is very much on the surface and really only applies to social issues (the sanctity of marriage, family etc.). As far as doctrine and belief is concerned, we could not be at more opposite ends. This is why I am here. I believe I understand basic Mormon beliefs, but how you arrive at those beliefs is still beyond me. So I am here to get educated.

God bless.

[Guest]

This is my first post on this forum so forgive me for butting in here. I think what we have in common is very much on the surface and really only applies to social issues (the sanctity of marriage, family etc.). As far as doctrine and belief is concerned, we could not be at more opposite ends. This is why I am here. I believe I understand basic Mormon beliefs, but how you arrive at those beliefs is still beyond me. So I am here to get educated.

God bless.

This is not true.

I am Catholic, now LDS. The reason I say I AM Catholic instead of I am ex-Catholic is because according to Catholic doctrine, you can't really become "un-Catholic'd". Catholic, by its nature is "universal". And once you are baptized Catholic, you become part of that universal body and is indelible. You can't un-baptize yourself. You can get ex-communicated, yes, but you don't stop becoming Catholic just because you got ex-communicated. It just means you are removed from the communion of the faithful.

Now, as far as doctrine and belief is concerned, Catholic and LDS is not as "opposite" as you imply. It is definitely a LOT deeper than just the surface!

As a matter of fact, the fourth article of faith is the same between Catholic and LDS. They both believe that the first principles and ordinances of the gospel are Faith in Jesus Christ, Repentance, Baptism, and Confirmation. The only difference is in the order in which the ordinances are placed upon the person.

As I see it, Jewish, Catholic, and LDS faiths are kinda like Elementary, High School, and College. One builds on top of the other to clarify doctrine/principles, so that at their most basic, they share a foundation.

[SteveVH]

This is not true.

I am Catholic, now LDS. The reason I say I AM Catholic instead of I am ex-Catholic is because according to Catholic doctrine, you can't really become "un-CatholicCatholic'd". Catholic, by its nature is "universal". And once you are baptized Catholic, you become part of that universal body and is indelible. You can't un-baptize yourself. You can get ex-communicated, yes, but you don't stop becoming Catholic just because you got ex-communicated. It just means you are removed from the communion of the faithful.

So you are LDS but still believe in Catholic doctrine? Interesting. You're the first I've ever heard make such a statement. I would disagree on one point. No one is baptized "Catholic". We are baptized into the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is why the Catholic Church recognizes and accepts the baptism of any person who is baptized in water and in the name of the Trinity. It is also why the Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon baptisms, at least since 2001. The Catholic Magisterium determined that the Mormon faith was so far removed from Christianity that it could not even be called heretical, but is considered an entirely different religion altogether. Thus, its baptisms would be invalid.

Now, as far as doctrine and belief is concerned, Catholic and LDS is not as "opposite" as you imply. It is definitely a LOT deeper than just the surface!

In what way?

As a matter of fact, the fourth article of faith is the same between Catholic and LDS. They both believe that the first principles and ordinances of the gospel are Faith in Jesus Christ, Repentance, Baptism, and Confirmation. The only difference is in the order in which the ordinances are placed upon the person.

We do not believe in any ordinances. We believe in sacraments and the fact that they may be called by the same name does not mean they carry the same meaning by any stretch of the imagination.

As I see it, Jewish, Catholic, and LDS faiths are kinda like Elementary, High School, and College. One builds on top of the other to clarify doctrine/principles, so that at their most basic, they share a foundation.

I certainly do not see it that way. Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism. Mormonism conflicts with both of these religions in almost every way, from the nature of God, to the nature of man, to the nature of salvation to the nature of our eternal destiny; from Genesis to Revelation and everywhere in between. Please tell me what Mormonism would have built upon, other than accepting the Sacred Scriptures from a purportedly apostate Church?

By the way, thank you for responding to my post. I have been conversing with Mormons on another forum for a little over two years. My purpose in this is truly to try and understand Mormon theology. By this time I have become fairly familiar with most of the beliefs, but I am still baffled at how one arrives at these beliefs. One thing is for sure, though we do not have really any similarities in our substantive beliefs and I see no reason to pretend that we do. I certainly don't hold it against anyone. :)

God bless and thanks again.

Edited March 9, 2011 by SteveVH

[Guest]

So you are LDS but still believe in Catholic doctrine? Interesting. You're the first I've ever heard make such a statement. I would disagree on one point. No one is baptized "Catholic". We are baptized into the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is why the Catholic Church recognizes and accepts the baptism of any person who is baptized in water and in the name of the Trinity. It is also why the Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon baptisms, at least since 2001. The Catholic Magisterium determined that the Mormon faith was so far removed from Christianity that it could not even be called heretical, but is considered an entirely different religion altogether. Thus, its baptisms would be invalid.

In what way?

We do not believe in any ordinances. We believe in sacraments and the fact that they may be called by the same name does not mean they carry the same meaning by any stretch of the imagination.

I certainly do not see it that way. Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism. Mormonism conflicts with both of these religions in almost every way, from the nature of God, to the nature of man, to the nature of salvation to the nature of our eternal destiny; from Genesis to Revelation and everywhere in between. Please tell me what Mormonism would have built upon, other than accepting the Sacred Scriptures from a purportedly apostate Church?

By the way, thank you for responding to my post. I have been conversing with Mormons on another forum for a little over two years. My purpose in this is truly to try and understand Mormon theology. By this time I have become fairly familiar with mos of the beliefs, but I am still baffled at how one arrives at these beliefs. One thing is for sure, though we do not have really any similarities in our substantive beliefs and I see no reason to pretend that we do. I certainly don't hold it against anyone. :)

God bless and thanks again.

Before I address these points, I want to clarify your position. You are Catholic?

[SteveVH]

Before I address these points, I want to clarify your position. You are Catholic?

Yes, sorry for not disclosing that. I'm new to this forum. On the other forum on which I post our religions (if we choose) are stated along with our User Name, location, etc. so we don't have to worry about making that identification. But yes, I am devoutly Catholic.

I thought that was fairly clear in the way I answered "we believe this and we believe that".

I am curious, though, what difference does it make as far as the comments I made and the questions I asked? Does it make a difference in the way you would answer?

[Jason_J]

So you are LDS but still believe in Catholic doctrine? Interesting. You're the first I've ever heard make such a statement. I would disagree on one point. No one is baptized "Catholic". We are baptized into the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is why the Catholic Church recognizes and accepts the baptism of any person who is baptized in water and in the name of the Trinity. It is also why the Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon baptisms, at least since 2001. The Catholic Magisterium determined that the Mormon faith was so far removed from Christianity that it could not even be called heretical, but is considered an entirely different religion altogether. Thus, its baptisms would be invalid.

I think you misunderstood what she was saying. She was not saying that she believes Catholic doctrine still as a member of the Lord's restored Church, but was referring to the "once a Catholic, always a Catholic" belief.

We do not believe in any ordinances. We believe in sacraments and the fact that they may be called by the same name does not mean they carry the same meaning by any stretch of the imagination.

Of course there are a number of similarities between a number of the Catholic sacraments and the ordinances of the LDS Church besides the name used.

I certainly do not see it that way. Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism. Mormonism conflicts with both of these religions in almost every way, from the nature of God, to the nature of man, to the nature of salvation to the nature of our eternal destiny; from Genesis to Revelation and everywhere in between.

The restored Gospel fits quite nicely with the Biblical record, from Genesis to Revelation. Latter-day Saints also believe our Church to be the fulfillment of Judaism, and a restoration of principles that have their beginnings from The Beginning. Also, we must be clear to distinguish between the various types of Judaism throughout history. I for one enjoy the writings of non-LDS Old Testament scholar Margaret Barker. LDS apologist Kevin Christensen has written a series of articles under the title "Paradigms Regained: A Survey of Margaret Barker's Scholarship and its Significance for Mormon Studies". These papers survey Barker's scholarship and show how recent historical research into Israelite religion and Old Testament studies further evidence the Latter-day Saint faith as a genuine restoration.

Other articles that are good for beginners in this field include:

Mormonism as a Restoration by Daniel Peterson

Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Practices by John Tvedtnes

Divine Embodiment: The Earliest Christian Understanding of God by David Paulsen

Mormonism in the Early Jewish-Christian Milieu by Barry Bickmore

Ye Are Gods: Psalm 82 and John 10 as Witnesses to the Divine Nature of Humankind by Daniel Peterson

That should be a good start to see that LDS beliefs fit nicely with historical Jewish beliefs, and it is amazing that with developments in research and scholarship, there are so many evidences of things that Joseph Smith and his associates supposedly made up...enjoy!

Edited March 9, 2011 by Jason_J

[Guest]

Yes, sorry for not disclosing that. I'm new to this forum. On the other forum on which I post our religions (if we choose) are stated along with our User Name, location, etc. so we don't have to worry about making that identification. But yes, I am devoutly Catholic.

I thought that was fairly clear in the way I answered "we believe this and we believe that".

I am curious, though, what difference does it make as far as the comments I made and the questions I asked? Does it make a difference in the way you would answer?

It doesn't make a difference as far as your comments go. It does change the way I would answer, though. Because, I have to take into consideration that you don't take anything from the Book of Mormon, D&C, Pearl of Great Price, or any of the teachings of the LDS Prophets as binding. So, I can't refer to any of those. But you do hold Catholic stuff binding, so I can use those. Make sense?

But, Jason_J was super excellent in giving you some material, so I'll not clutter the thread because Jason's stuff is awesome. By the way, he's like me - Catholic turned LDS... and fairly recently. And he is also very well-versed in Catholic doctrine.

Edited March 9, 2011 by anatess

[Jason_J]

Also SteveVH, if you are looking for a more active LDS forum as far as apologetics and these sorts of discussions go, you may be interested in Mormon Dialogue and Discussion Board. It has a good mix of LDS and non-LDS posters, including a number of Catholics (I used to be one of those until recently ).