JoshuaFKon Posted September 22, 2006 Report Posted September 22, 2006 I say that it is IMPOSSIBLE that he would.. and WOULD NEVER THINK THAT LIES HELP!I didn't say "lies would ever help"You say: "it is IMPOSSIBLE that he would"I say: "it is IMPOSSIBLE that he could"one letter difference. :) Josh B) Quote
Princess3dward Posted September 22, 2006 Report Posted September 22, 2006 That it is. God can do anything He wants.... but I think that it doesn't even matter which of us is true... Could it possibly matter when the same conclusion is we are not following a lie? Quote
JoshuaFKon Posted September 22, 2006 Report Posted September 22, 2006 That it is.God can do anything He wants....but I think that it doesn't even matter which of us is true...Could it possibly matter when the same conclusion is we are not following a lie?ok...you're right (not about God's ability to lie) it really dosn't matter.truce?Josh B) Quote
Princess3dward Posted September 22, 2006 Report Posted September 22, 2006 <div class='quotemain'>That it is.God can do anything He wants....but I think that it doesn't even matter which of us is true...Could it possibly matter when the same conclusion is we are not following a lie?ok...you're right (not about God's ability to lie) it really dosn't matter.truce?Josh B)YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!And sure. truce (as long as I got the last word. ) Quote
JoshuaFKon Posted September 22, 2006 Report Posted September 22, 2006 YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!And sure. truce (as long as I got the last word. )Fine. My opinion, based on scripture.and ok deal. Josh B) Quote
Princess3dward Posted September 22, 2006 Report Posted September 22, 2006 YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!And sure. truce (as long as I got the last word. )Fine. My opinion, based on scripture.and ok deal. Josh B)Hey! You broke the deal! Quote
JoshuaFKon Posted September 22, 2006 Report Posted September 22, 2006 <div class='quotemain'>YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!And sure. truce (as long as I got the last word. )Fine. My opinion, based on scripture.and ok deal. Josh B)Hey! You broke the deal!No I didn't ....there is nothing to stop you from having the last word.... :) Josh B) I don't want it now.... sad.gifis that a trick to keep me from having the last word? Quote
Princess3dward Posted September 22, 2006 Report Posted September 22, 2006 I don't want it now.... Quote
Ray Posted September 22, 2006 Report Posted September 22, 2006 3. False (There are some things even God cannot do)Can God lie?Josh B)Perhaps you misunderstood, or misinterpreted me. You're quoting my comment for some reason.Claim #3 asked:Any being which it is right to call God must be free to do anything.and I said:False (There are some things even God cannot do)And my answer to your question is:No, God cannot. (There are some things even God cannot do)Are we there yet? Quote
Snow Posted September 23, 2006 Report Posted September 23, 2006 I say he cannot possibly lie.Read the bible sonny-boy."1 Kings 22:23Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.2 Chronicles 18:22Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.Jeremiah 4:10Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.Jeremiah 20:7O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.Ezekiel 14:9And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.2 Thessalonians 2:11For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."False (There are some things even God cannot do)So you dogmatically believe that God is not omnipotent. Big deal.Got any proof?Answer: no Quote
Dr T Posted September 23, 2006 Report Posted September 23, 2006 There are things that God cannot do. Quote
JoshuaFKon Posted September 23, 2006 Report Posted September 23, 2006 <div class='quotemain'>3. False (There are some things even God cannot do)Can God lie?Josh B)Perhaps you misunderstood, or misinterpreted me. You're quoting my comment for some reason.Claim #3 asked:Any being which it is right to call God must be free to do anything.and I said:False (There are some things even God cannot do)And my answer to your question is:No, God cannot. (There are some things even God cannot do)Are we there yet?My mistake Ray, I must have mis-read your post, sorry Josh Quote
JoshuaFKon Posted September 23, 2006 Report Posted September 23, 2006 Read the bible sonny-boy."sonny-boy"? "1 Kings 22:23Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.God didn't lie, sent a lying spirit2 Chronicles 18:22Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.God didn't lie, sent a lying spiritJeremiah 4:10Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.Jeremiah 20:7O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.This verse is a mistranslation -- the Hebrew word behind "deceive" can also mean "seduce" or "persuade." In the context of Jeremiah, who had to be persuaded by God to take his prophetic calling (Jer. 1:6-7), this is the correct understanding.Ezekiel 14:9And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.The translation is uncertain due to difficulty both in determining the meaning of the verb’s stem and its conjugation in this context. In the Qal stem the basic meaning of the verbal root פָּתַה (patah) is “to be gullible, foolish.” The doubling stems (the Pual and Piel used in this verse) typically give such stative verbs a factitive sense, hence either “make gullible” (i.e., “entice”) or “make into a fool” (i.e., “to show to be a fool”). The latter represents the probable meaning of the term in Jer 20:7, 10 and is followed here (see L. C. Allen, Ezekiel [WBC], 1:193; R. Mosis “Ez 14, 1-11 - ein Ruf zur Umkehr,” BZ 19 [1975]: 166-69 and ThWAT 4:829-31). In this view, if a prophet speaks when not prompted by God, he will be shown to be a fool, but this does not reflect negatively on the Lord because it is God who shows him to be a fool. Secondly, the verb is in the perfect conjugation and may be translated “I have made a fool of him” or “I have enticed him,” or to show determination (see IBHS 439-41 §27.2f and g), or in certain syntactical constructions as future. Any of these may be plausible if the doubling stems used are understood in the sense of “making a fool of.” But if understood as “to make gullible,” more factors come into play. As the Hebrew verbal form is a perfect, it is often translated as present perfect: “I have enticed.” In this case the Lord states that he himself enticed the prophet to cooperate with the idolaters. Such enticement to sin would seem to be a violation of God’s moral character, but sometimes he does use such deception and enticement to sin as a form of punishment against those who have blatantly violated his moral will (see, e.g., 2 Sam 24). If one follows this line of interpretation in Ezek 14:9, one would have to assume that the prophet had already turned from God in his heart. However, the context gives no indication of this. Therefore, it is better to take the perfect as indicating certitude and to translate it with the future tense: “I will entice.” In this case the Lord announces that he will judge the prophet appropriately. If a prophet allows himself to be influenced by idolaters, then the Lord will use deception as a form of punishment against that deceived prophet. A comparison with the preceding oracles also favors this view. In 14:4 the perfect of certitude is used for emphasis (see “I will answer”), though in v. 7 a participle is employed. For a fuller discussion of this text, see R. B. Chisholm, Jr., “Does God Deceive?” BSac 155 (1998): 23-25.2 Thessalonians 2:11For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."he expression "strong delusion" speaks more to God giving sinners up to their utter depravity (similar to Romans 1), so that they will be certain to be condemned, as 2:12 affirms. Basically, God, by giving them strong delusion, is fixing them in their condemnation by removing His grace and leaving them to their sin. In like fashion, God sent a wicked spirit to torment Saul in 1 Samuel. The torment of the wicked spirit only served to stir up Saul's wicked heart so that his internal sin would be manifested outwardlySo you dogmatically believe that God is not omnipotent. Big deal.Got any proof?Hebrews 6:18: “t is impossible for God to lie.”Josh B) Quote
Princess3dward Posted September 23, 2006 Report Posted September 23, 2006 ................ I hope this thread doesn't go on for much longer... I can already see that it is one of those never ending ones, just because the only "proof" is the bible. We all know what I think about that And you are proving it for me. All in the interperitations. Quote
Dr T Posted September 23, 2006 Report Posted September 23, 2006 No Des. It is only the Bible. Based on god's nature, there are logical things that God cannot do. (in my understanding of thought). Dr. T Quote
Princess3dward Posted September 23, 2006 Report Posted September 23, 2006 But... God can do anything.... Quote
Dr T Posted September 23, 2006 Report Posted September 23, 2006 My position is God cannot do "anything" but "can do all things that able to be done." I can give you examples if you want. Dr. T Quote
Princess3dward Posted September 23, 2006 Report Posted September 23, 2006 My position is God cannot do "anything" but "can do all things that able to be done." I can give you examples if you want.Dr. TNo.. I don't need any.I think I understand where you are coming from.That is like, religion connects with science.That is my dads theory.I have no problem believing that God was subjected to laws himself.... I guess, like LH says... I am keeping an open mind about it. Quote
Dr T Posted September 23, 2006 Report Posted September 23, 2006 No. I'm not talking about laws of nature. We read that God is able to be outside of natural laws such as "the burning bush, walking on water, raising the dead, etc." I'm talking about things that He cannot do because they are logically inconsistent. This might be too advanced for you right now so may you should wait until you are older. If you want to try and think about it, I'm willing to try and explain what I am talking about. Dr. T Quote
Princess3dward Posted September 23, 2006 Report Posted September 23, 2006 No. I'm not talking about laws of nature. We read that God is able to be outside of natural laws such as "the burning bush, walking on water, raising the dead, etc." I'm talking about things that He cannot do because they are logically inconsistent. This might be too advanced for you right now so may you should wait until you are older. If you want to try and think about it, I'm willing to try and explain what I am talking about.Dr. TLike, things He said He would never do, or is not His "style"?I can't think of a good examlpe to explain what I am taking about... Quote
Dr T Posted September 23, 2006 Report Posted September 23, 2006 Des, I have a soccer game to attend. I'll address it in another thread. Dr. T Quote
Princess3dward Posted September 23, 2006 Report Posted September 23, 2006 ???? There are some sayings I will never understand. lol. Quote
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