Mormon Myths

[Outshined]

Ephesians 5: 22: Wives submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the Church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the Church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

It is evident that the Lord holds the man responsible for the success of the family. Although the man quite frequently takes the role of the irresponsible wuss and passes the pants on to the wife, he is still held responsible for the family, and he will answer for his delinquency.

I think too many people are blinded by modern traditions. They are beginning to take on a mind-set that certain things are no longer applicable because they are somwhat inconvenient to abide by as a result of changing times. But ask yourself this: Does the Almighty God answer to man? Does He change His eternal principles to conform to the ever changing traditions of man? A little absurd don't you think?

The early leaders taught that plural marriage would be lived in the hereafter; that it was eternal. Assuming those men were true prophets of God, one must accept that doctrine as being true; as there was no room left for speculation. It was quite forcefully taught as being true. This being said, wouldn't a revelation saying otherwise only expose a false prophet? According to the book of Abraham, our time reckoning compared to the time reckoning of Heaven is 1000 to 1 respectively. In other words, one year in Heaven is equal to 1000 years on Earth. This makes 100 years on earth slightly over 1 month in Heaven. Now imagine all of the change that has taken place in the world in the past 100 years. If those changes were also made in the traditions of heaven wouldn't that be a confusing place to live? There would be a change every ten minutes or so.

Again, does God answer to man?

Good post; your point is well-made.

[dontagreeljefe]

Not blind obedience but faith obedience You follow leaders because you have faith they are caled of God. Doctrine and Covenants section 1:38 says what I the lord have spoken I have spoken wether by my voice or the voice of my servants it is the same. Heber J Grant told Marion G Romney even if prophet is wrong follow him and you will be blessed but he wont be wrong.

Joseph Fielding McConkie went to his parents house for dinner after he was married. He saw his dad take a glass of buttermilk. Jokingly he said isnt that the first line of apostatsy. Then his father explained he didnt like it but a senior member of the twelve saw he was served it after a meeting. When asked how do you tell between righteous and unrighteous dominion he said you dont and people that always question dont have as big a portion of the spirit as those that are obedient to there leaders. Is it necessary to pray about wether you should pay tithing, keep the law of chastity, for young men serve a mission, marry in the temple, some may object to this for a married couple decide wether or not to bring children into the world the prophets even recently at church schools spoke on that matter. Read Earl C Tingeys may 2004 ces fireside, C Scott Grow;s Jan 2002 devotional and Russel M Nelsons feb 2005 devotional. The lord has spoken on that if you have faith those servants are called of God. Its not were they said it but is it true. Keep word of wisdom. I think Joseph Smith said we dont ask God what he already revealed.

If the lord is the one that called you you should never say no to a calling. Husbands are to preside in righteousness in the home doesnt mean they are superior just preside decided who says the prayers and other family descisions.

There are three types of teachings that exist among Church members:

As far as never criticizing church leaders. If you been through the temple you know the answer to that question.

1. Gospel Teachings:

Gospel teachings are eternal truths that never change. They are always true and applicable in your life. An example is the atonement of the Savior which makes repentance and happiness possible.

2. Church Teachings: Policies and Procedures:

Church teachings are more appropriately called rules, regulations, and policies. Examples could be mission rules, the length of time missionaries serve, and the Sunday meeting schedule. Teachings in this category may change frequently. Your stress increases dramatically if you perceive polices and procedures as gospel teachings that are not supposed to change. Some people even become inactive because of this error in their thinking.

3. Member teachings:

As the name implies, member teachings are created by members. Many wonderful teachings in classes and publications are examples of true member teachings. However, even in church meetings, not all teachings presented by members are true. Some members teach their own opinions or quote secular writings which are not true. Elder Dallin H. Oaks called them "alternate voices" in the April 1989 General Conference.

Many false teachings are circulated among members of the church. Many also existed at the time of the Savior, for Jesus referred to them as "teachings for doctrines the commandments of men." (Matthew 15:9.) The Pharisees taught them on purpose and for the wrong reasons, yet most members today create and pass on false member teachings without even being aware the teaching is not true. False member teachings increase stress, decrease or destroy faith, and even create propensity toward sin among members of the Lord's church. Even an active member with a strong testimony of the gospel can believe enough false member teachings to create a high stress level detrimental to his spiritual, emotional, and physical health.

It is important to recognize that a true teaching can also create pain and stress when we don't want to live it or don't want to admit we aren't living it. For example, a friend may give you feedback that is true, yet you may struggle with it. Someone has said, "Yes, the truth will make you free, but sometimes it must first make you miserable." But false member teachings are much more likely to be the source of our misery.

- John C. Turpin, Stress Reduction For Mormons

False member teachings I have heard from Church members:

1. Never say no to a calling.

2. Men are the head of the household and make all of the important decisions.

3. Confusing self-esteem with selfishness (taking time for oneself is selfish).

4. Attain perfection in this life/perfectionism.

5. Sisters will be required to practice polygamy in the hereafter.

6. All sisters enjoyed practicing polygamy in the early days of the Church.

7. Blindly follow your leaders.

8. Trust others' power of revelation/prayer over your own.

9. Don't express your true feelings.

10 "Never criticize your leaders."

11. Those who hold the priesthood are better than those who do not.

Not blind obedience but faith obedience You follow leaders because you have faith they are caled of God. Doctrine and Covenants section 1:38 says what I the lord have spoken I have spoken wether by my voice or the voice of my servants it is the same. Heber J Grant told Marion G Romney even if prophet is wrong follow him and you will be blessed but he wont be wrong.

Joseph Fielding McConkie went to his parents house for dinner after he was married. He saw his dad take a glass of buttermilk. Jokingly he said isnt that the first line of apostatsy. Then his father explained he didnt like it but a senior member of the twelve saw he was served it after a meeting. When asked how do you tell between righteous and unrighteous dominion he said you dont and people that always question dont have as big a portion of the spirit as those that are obedient to there leaders. Is it necessary to pray about wether you should pay tithing, keep the law of chastity, for young men serve a mission, marry in the temple, some may object to this for a married couple decide wether or not to bring children into the world the prophets even recently at church schools spoke on that matter. Read Earl C Tingeys may 2004 ces fireside, C Scott Grow;s Jan 2002 devotional and Russel M Nelsons feb 2005 devotional. The lord has spoken on that if you have faith those servants are called of God. Its not were they said it but is it true. Keep word of wisdom. I think Joseph Smith said we dont ask God what he already revealed.

If the lord is the one that called you you should never say no to a calling. Husbands are to preside in righteousness in the home doesnt mean they are superior just preside decided who says the prayers and other family descisions.

<div class='quotemain'>

There are three types of teachings that exist among Church members:

As far as never criticizing church leaders. If you been through the temple you know the answer to that question.

1. Gospel Teachings:

Gospel teachings are eternal truths that never change. They are always true and applicable in your life. An example is the atonement of the Savior which makes repentance and happiness possible.

2. Church Teachings: Policies and Procedures:

Church teachings are more appropriately called rules, regulations, and policies. Examples could be mission rules, the length of time missionaries serve, and the Sunday meeting schedule. Teachings in this category may change frequently. Your stress increases dramatically if you perceive polices and procedures as gospel teachings that are not supposed to change. Some people even become inactive because of this error in their thinking.

3. Member teachings:

As the name implies, member teachings are created by members. Many wonderful teachings in classes and publications are examples of true member teachings. However, even in church meetings, not all teachings presented by members are true. Some members teach their own opinions or quote secular writings which are not true. Elder Dallin H. Oaks called them "alternate voices" in the April 1989 General Conference.

Many false teachings are circulated among members of the church. Many also existed at the time of the Savior, for Jesus referred to them as "teachings for doctrines the commandments of men." (Matthew 15:9.) The Pharisees taught them on purpose and for the wrong reasons, yet most members today create and pass on false member teachings without even being aware the teaching is not true. False member teachings increase stress, decrease or destroy faith, and even create propensity toward sin among members of the Lord's church. Even an active member with a strong testimony of the gospel can believe enough false member teachings to create a high stress level detrimental to his spiritual, emotional, and physical health.

It is important to recognize that a true teaching can also create pain and stress when we don't want to live it or don't want to admit we aren't living it. For example, a friend may give you feedback that is true, yet you may struggle with it. Someone has said, "Yes, the truth will make you free, but sometimes it must first make you miserable." But false member teachings are much more likely to be the source of our misery.

- John C. Turpin, Stress Reduction For Mormons

False member teachings I have heard from Church members:

1. Never say no to a calling.

2. Men are the head of the household and make all of the important decisions.

3. Confusing self-esteem with selfishness (taking time for oneself is selfish).

4. Attain perfection in this life/perfectionism.

5. Sisters will be required to practice polygamy in the hereafter.

6. All sisters enjoyed practicing polygamy in the early days of the Church.

7. Blindly follow your leaders.

8. Trust others' power of revelation/prayer over your own.

9. Don't express your true feelings.

10 "Never criticize your leaders."

11. Those who hold the priesthood are better than those who do not.

If you have been through the temple you know the answer of never criticizing the lords annointed

[shanstress70]

Joseph Fielding McConkie went to his parents house for dinner after he was married. He saw his dad take a glass of buttermilk. Jokingly he said isnt that the first line of apostatsy. Then his father explained he didnt like it but a senior member of the twelve saw he was served it after a meeting. When asked how do you tell between righteous and unrighteous dominion he said you dont and people that always question dont have as big a portion of the spirit as those that are obedient to there leaders.

I'm sorry, but I missed the point about the buttermilk... maybe I just didn't read carefully enough. Is buttermilk against the WoW now?

[Prend1]

I'm confused too

[Outshined]

I'm sorry, but I missed the point about the buttermilk... maybe I just didn't read carefully enough. Is buttermilk against the WoW now?

See, the buttermilk represents...uh...nevermind, I didn't get it either.

[dontagreeljefe]

No never was. Joseph was teasing his dad about drinking it. Then BRM felt even on something as smalll as what to drink in apostles dinner he should obey should always obey. Joseph wondered if it was unrighteous dominion for a senior member to insist his junior drink buttermilk. And brm learned to like buttermilk. Point of story was you dont distinguish between unrighteous dominion and people that dont question have a greater portion of the spirit with them.

[shanstress70]

Alrighty then!

[Snow]

If you have been through the temple you know the answer of never criticizing the lords annointed

I think that's a cop out - such a broad statement that it is meaningless.

Certainly you shouldn't criticize Church leaders annointed or not, for their well-intentioned efforts in carrying our the Lord's work. But you certainly would criticize folks for, say eccesiastical or sexual abuse. You, if you were of a mind to, would criticize folks for racists and extremist pubically stated views. You would criticize someone, oh say - a prophet, if he lied about having plural wives.

Not that it makes it right, but Joseph Smith had a huge temper and could not take public criticism, even if it was true and called for. He would blow up and rebuke the person who had been wronged by him in a manner all out of proportion to the perceived slight that he, JS, had received. JS was repeated brougth before Church councils because of it.

Now Joseph also had a huge heart once his feathers got smoothed out, he sought harmony and tried to bring the disaffect (those that he offended) back into his fold.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Prend1]

"If one follows their own spirit (Shakespeare referred to this as being "true to oneself"), then you don't have to blame anyone else if/when things go wrong! ;-)"

O boy where do I start? What about free will? Is it my falut if someone decides to use their free will and run a red light that causes me to be injured. And I guess me getting depression was my fault too. Must an unresolved sin in my life.

While I noramlly do not mind discussion your thinking is a little off in my opinion. Even if you are true things can still and do go wrong.

[Amphiblitz]

Point of story was you dont distinguish between unrighteous dominion and people that dont question have a greater portion of the spirit with them.

Thank you for sharing this with us. I think there is a lesson to be learned here. Definitely worth pondering and carefully weighing with other great lessons taught.

Come back anytime, dontagreeljefe.

[Aristotle]

Point of story was you dont distinguish between unrighteous dominion and people that dont question have a greater portion of the spirit with them.

Sorry, but that sounds like a member teaching!

God gave me a brain to use, not to turn into brain rot from non-use. ;-)

People that don't question things which go against their spirit become robotic, having lost their ability to think, along with their free agency.

[Maureen]

"If one follows their own spirit (Shakespeare referred to this as being "true to oneself"), then you don't have to blame anyone else if/when things go wrong! ;-)"

O boy where do I start? What about free will? Is it my falut if someone decides to use their free will and run a red light that causes me to be injured.

I don't think your example Prend1 follows the "being true to yourself" philosophy. You are not responsible if someone runs a red light and involves you in the accident (although many of these kind of accidents are preventable). But if a person has chosen something for themself (ie. marrying after only knowing the person for lets say 1 week) and is doesn't work out, then that person is particially responsible for that failure.

And I guess me getting depression was my fault too. Must an unresolved sin in my life.

Life does hand out its share of lemons but there are ways to overcome hardships and problems. If a person seeks out productive help for depression and tries to also help themselves then there's a good chance you will beat it. If a person wallows in self-pity and makes no effort to get better, they must take some responsibility for their situation.

M.

[Prend1]

Agree with ya there maureen.

And Aristolte or Mrs. A.....That's one of my biggest gripes with the church. We ARE supposed to blindly follow.

[Snow]

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For example: JS sent the Brethren to Canada with the word of prophecy that they would sell the copyright to the Book of Mormon. Turns out it was a false prophecy.

Same for the other statements. We see eye to eye on this one Ari.

1.What spirit was Joseph Smith following in your opinion, Snow?

2.When Joseph Smith was repremanded by the Lord, what spirit was Joseph following?

3.And what spirit was Joseph Smith following when he established polygamy in the Church?

1. I personally don't have an opinion. Joseph's response was that some revelations come from God, some from man himself and some from the devil and so indicating that the supposed revelation (to go to Canada) was Joseph's own imagination or prompting from the devil. He said no more on the matter.

2. We wasn't reprimanded. He simply prayed to find out the problem and was told the above.

3. Again - I don't have a strong personal opinion but do have questions. Ultimately when we get to the bottom of it, I could accept if it was from God and I could also accept if it was just Joseph out on a limb by himself.

If it turns out that it was Joseph's creation (not God's) I don't think that his primary or at least sole motivation was sexual, though sex was part of Joseph's plural marriages. I think he was first motivated from his reading of the OT and a desire to create an Abrahamic legacy.

[Aristotle]

O boy where do I start? What about free will? Is it my falut if someone decides to use their free will and run a red light that causes me to be injured. And I guess me getting depression was my fault too. Must an unresolved sin in my life.

While I noramlly do not mind discussion your thinking is a little off in my opinion. Even if you are true things can still and do go wrong.

The war in heaven was fought over free agency, so this must be a very important issue! Those who choose to do evil, follow Satan; those who choose to do good, follow God.

A person who runs a red light is guilty of having caused an accident, not using their free agency to deliberately cause an accident which may or may not injure/kill someone.

There is opposition in all things; when we are sick, we appreciate being well, etc. This has nothing to do with sin, but the fact that we are given trials and tests in this life which enable us to grow spiritually, to gain compassion and empathy, and understanding.

And Aristolte or Mrs. A.....That's one of my biggest gripes with the church. We ARE supposed to blindly follow.

No, Prendi...that is a member teaching! We are to use our own free agency (to trust our own spirit, or "gut", or instinct); reasoning things out in our mind, through prayer and study...we arrive at our own determination on our own behalf, as to what is right or wrong for us. Let no one take your power of freedom of thought/choice away from you, as it is God-given...you have earned the right by virtue of the fact that you fought the war in heaven for that agency. What we do with our free agency is the key! Whether or not one chooses to do good or evil, the choice is ours...and we will be accountable in either case.

1. I personally don't have an opinion. Joseph's response was that some revelations come from God, some from man himself and some from the devil and so indicating that the supposed revelation (to go to Canada) was Joseph's own imagination or prompting from the devil. He said no more on the matter.

2. We wasn't reprimanded. He simply prayed to find out the problem and was told the above.

3. Again - I don't have a strong personal opinion but do have questions. Ultimately when we get to the bottom of it, I could accept if it was from God and I could also accept if it was just Joseph out on a limb by himself.

If it turns out that it was Joseph's creation (not God's) I don't think that his primary or at least sole motivation was sexual, though sex was part of Joseph's plural marriages. I think he was first motivated from his reading of the OT and a desire to create an Abrahamic legacy.

I would agree with that.

[Guest Unorthodox]

Not sure if this was mentioned...

Joseph Smith died as a "lamb led to the slaughter."

(the description of his death in the Ensign contradicts this)

[BenRaines]

How so Unorthodox? I don't think he refers to the actual killing but his willingness to go to Carthage Jail in the first place. Not the actual killing. This is my personal opinion.

[Outshined]

How so Unorthodox? I don't think he refers to the actually killing but his willingness to go to Carthage Jail in the first place. Not the actual killing. This is my personal opinion.

I agree; and he never had a chance against the armed mob that killed him.

[Guest Unorthodox]

Fair enough, if you are talking about his arrest.

I was thinking more about the fact that he had defended himself with a gun, while a lamb does not defend itself at all.

Personally, if I was LDS, I also would not be concerned with JS having a gun, because he wouldn't be the first Prophet to wield a weapon. He could still be called a Martyr.

Perhaps the myth is not that he was like a lamb, but in the artwork depicting his death, and the traditional story that we are told that leaves out his self defense?

Maybe its not myth, but just artistic license.

[Amphiblitz]

Perhaps the myth is not that he was like a lamb, but in the artwork depicting his death, and the traditional story that we are told that leaves out his self defense?

I've been LDS all my life, and the "traditional story" I've always been told is the same one that is told at the Carthage Jail Visitors Center. It includes his "self-defense" and defense of his bretheren.

No active LDS I know (and I know MANY) has a problem with it. The only time I've heard it brought up as a supposed contradiction to the "going like a lamb" comment has been by anti's.

Like Ben said, though, he went like a lamb in the sense that he had the means to resist arrest indefinitely. The Nauvoo militia, which he commanded, was a formidable force, not to mention any number of individual members who would have had the means and know-how to help them escape. And, not to mention the fact that calling the security level at Carthage Jail "minimum" would be an understatement.

But that's just me. :)

[Guest Unorthodox]

No active LDS I know (and I know MANY) has a problem with it.

Here is one example from the book "Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints":

Shortly after five o’clock in the afternoon of 27 June 1844, a mob of about 200 men with painted faces stormed the Carthage Jail, shot and killed Joseph and his brother Hyrum, and seriously wounded John Taylor. Only Willard Richards remained unharmed. Upon hearing shouts of “the Mormons are coming,” the mob fled, as did most of Carthage’s residents. Willard Richards cared for the wounded John Taylor, both of them mourning their slain leaders. Hyrum’s body was inside the jail, while Joseph, who had fallen from a window, lay beside the outside well.

I thought (perhaps mistakenly) that this was the story that was typically told to members who did not dig a little deeper...although the Ensign has put out an article giving the whole story.

Also, as a non-member, this is the version of the story I read when touring the LDS Museum in SLC.

And here is the artwork I refer to:

Actually, one good test of whether or not the history is told with artistic license would be that movie "The Work & The Glory".

I didn't see it, but did Part 2 show Joseph Smith's death?

If so, was he holding a gun?

As I mentioned above, I don't have a problem with it either, and if I believed he was a prophet, it would not affect that testimony.

In the Judeo-Christian-LDS tradition, prophets have not been traditionally pacifist. There are many biblical and BoM prophets that killed people.

I still think the story is given artistic licence, and I take back my comment about it being a myth. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[BenRaines]

No offense here. I think it was Joseph Smith himself, when he allowed himself to be taken in to custody, that referred to going like a lamb to the slaughter. Perhaps he had seen the end himself and knew what the end result of this encarceration would be. As Amphib stated he had more than enough firepower at his disposal to free himself if he desired.

[Guest Unorthodox]

As Amphib stated he had more than enough firepower at his disposal to free himself if he desired.

Really? I thought Outshined had just said that JS didn't stand a chance?

But I still agree with you that by accepting his arrest, he went as a lamb to the slaughter.

I'm still taking back what I said about this being a myth...I am only holding on to the opinion that the story is given great artistic license...as are many other religious stories in all traditions.

[Guest Unorthodox]

Actually, one good test of whether or not the history is told with artistic license would be that movie "The Work & The Glory".

I just read a summary of that movie and it doen't seem to cover the period of his martyrdom...so nevermind...