Judge being gay a nonissue during Prop. 8 trial

[bytor2112]

The biggest open secret in the landmark trial over same-sex marriage being heard in San Francisco is that the federal judge who will decide the case, Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker, is himself gay.

Probably had nothing to do with him turning over the will of the California voters....probably:rolleyes:

[pam]

They also don't believe it will influence how he rules on the case he's now hearing - whether Proposition 8, the 2008 ballot measure approved by state voters to ban same-sex marriage, unconstitutionally discriminates against gays and lesbians.

Oh give me a break.

[Soulsearcher]

So who do we think could have decided this with no bias what so ever? Obviously it couldn't be heard by either an LDS, Catholic or Straight person if we are trying to avoid any personal conflict with the idea right?

[pam]

It could have been done by a straight person who has no leanings either way on the issue. LDS or Catholic might be different.

[Soulsearcher]

So we assume a gay person can't really be impartial? A reminder from what i hear this guy was appointed by Regan and fully vetted. Most of his rulings seem to be on par for all his career. Could be a lil much to say "gay so can't be trusted to be fair"

If we refuse to believe him saying he can be impartial and has no leanings to either side......how can we believe anyone really?

Edited August 5, 2010 by Soulsearcher

[pam]

As always you are right Soul. I'm being unfair. I just saw the irony in the situation is all.

[Soulsearcher]

I agree there is irony, and i do understand the concern, but if it was revealed the judge was LDS and gays were swearing he couldn't be trusted, i do wonder what the response here would be. It was never hidden from the people so to me the fact it was open from the get go is a good sign.

[pam]

A reminder from what i hear this guy was appointed by Regan and fully vetted

Not that it matters but the article states he was appointed by President Bush.

[Soulsearcher]

lol will teach me to trust unbiased sources lol but i'm not sure who's right but i'm willing to admit i didn't look far enough into it and you very well could be right :)

[pam]

I agree there is irony, and i do understand the concern, but if it was revealed the judge was LDS and gays were swearing he couldn't be trusted, i do wonder what the response here would be. It was never hidden from the people so to me the fact it was open from the get go is a good sign.

I'm LDS and I wouldn't want to see an LDS judge making the decision. Just for the fact that it also could be seen as a biased decision.

[bytor2112]

I just proposed to my dachshund.....he's a boy dog too

[Soulsearcher]

I just proposed to my dachshund.....he's a boy dog too

Your point is?

[pam]

I just proposed to my dachshund.....he's a boy dog too

There are more issues there than just having a boy dog.

[Soulsearcher]

Could explain why i always thought he was a lil rabid. Poor poor puppy

[bytor2112]

Your point is?

We have as much to offer society as a married couple as an g/l "marriage" and our union would be just as much of an abomination in the eyes of God.

[Soulsearcher]

Then prove that every Straight couple that gets married has more to offer, and it must be ALL straight couples. Exceptions can't be allowed because we are looking for an "exception." If you really want to compare me to someone who sleeps with an animal fine, but don't ever ask why people think you are intolerant and fight you.

[pam]

We have as much to offer society as a married couple as an g/l "marriage" and our union would be just as much of an abomination in the eyes of God.

Oh my heck, I can't believe you would even compare marriage to an animal to gay marriage. While I am all for keeping marriage as being between a man and a woman, stating that gay couples have nothing to give to society is an insult.

[Snow]

You folks that are upset that Prop 8 was ruled to be unconstitutional ought to wake up and face reality. The days of discrimination against people based on race, gender or sexual orientation are fast drawing to a close - even if your discrimination is based on religious morals.

Marriage is not a religious right / institution. It is a legal, societal right / institution and I for one, don't want religions telling me what I can and can't legally do. Here, it not so bad cuz I am part of the religious majority - christian, but heaven forbid I lived in a culture dominated by, say, Islamic fundamentalism, or any kind of fundamentalism, even Christian.

As I said during the prop 8 campaign, one day in the not too distant future, the Church's efforts will have been for naught and created another black eye for the Church through being perceived as an obstacle to enlightened progress, just as we were thus perceived with marriage 100 years ago, and with blacks and with women's rights.

But hey, at least we showed up the Catholics.

[bytor2112]

Then prove that every Straight couple that gets married has more to offer, and it must be ALL straight couples. Exceptions can't be allowed because we are looking for an "exception." If you really want to compare me to someone who sleeps with an animal fine, but don't ever ask why people think you are intolerant and fight you.

I am not intolerant and can't think of a time someone has tried to fight me since.....the fifth grade..maybe. The issue and point I was making is simply that from MY view point and absolutely the Lord's view point is that g/l marriage is wrong. (and that is being gentle)

The issue of g/l marriage boils down to whether or not g/l people are any different from heterosexuals.....physically. They are not a different gender...right? They are not a newly discovered species....right? They have a different sexual appetite that is opposition to our Creator's Eternal plan.

So if "sexual desire" can be used as a reason to make a mockery of marriage....then why should anything be taboo?

[pam]

You folks that are upset that Prop 8 was ruled to be unconstitutional ought to wake up and face reality. The days of discrimination against people based on race, gender or sexual orientation are fast drawing to a close - even if your discrimination is based on religious morals.

Marriage is not a religious right / institution. It is a legal, societal right / institution and I for one, don't want religions telling me what I can and can't legally do. Here, it not so bad cuz I am part of the religious majority - christian, but heaven forbid I lived in a culture dominated by, say, Islamic fundamentalism, or any kind of fundamentalism, even Christian.

As I said during the prop 8 campaign, one day in the not too distant future, the Church's efforts will have been for naught and created another black eye for the Church through being perceived as an obstacle to enlightened progress, just as we were thus perceived with marriage 100 years ago, and with blacks and with women's rights.

But hey, at least we showed up the Catholics.

I feel you are right Snow but that doesn't mean we can't still show some outrage over it.

[bytor2112]

Oh my heck, I can't believe you would even compare marriage to an animal to gay marriage. While I am all for keeping marriage as being between a man and a woman, stating that gay couples have nothing to give to society is an insult.

Er....gay couples ..yes....gay marriage...no.

[Soulsearcher]

So you only got married out of sexual desire? there was nothing higher to your relationship than getting the old lady in bed? If that's all marriage is then I'm kinda sad.

Sexual relations are simply a part of relationships. Being most gays really don't see their relationships as sinful, why would they need to get married if they were not worried about sinning out of wedlock? The focus has been put way too much on what happens in the bedroom, which is a vastly inferior amount of time to the rest of life.

Bytor if your marriage is just sex then great, but these people want a single monogamous relationship, bound to someone til the day they die, an expression of not just sex, but devotion and love. Lets be honest marriage is not the institution it once was, and that started long before the gay marriage push. In stead of the focus being on who we need to keep out of the club why do we not focus a lil more on making it the club people are fighting for?

Again, if we have ot get into it, please provide absolute medical proof that this is not a true part of the person. That there is no genetic difference or biological factors? You asked about a species or different gender, but as easy as it is for you to dismiss, you do it simply because it's so easy. No one knows, anyone who claims they know for sure is lying. Yet when gay people tell the truth about how they feel how this is a part of them, their truth automatically means less because it just doesn't fit your truth. So no matter what the gay side says, or experiences, or has gone through it means nothing because you know them better than they know them selves. So if this is the reality, show me the medical and genetic proof that tells you that i know nothing about myself and can't have a leg to stand on.

[bytor2112]

I self deleted my posts...they were ugly and un-called for....and to Soulsearcher and anyone else that I offended by my comments...I am truly sorry. Sometimes my grumpy side over rules my compassionate and common sense side.

(Sidenote: While I am against g/l marriage for religious reasons and likely also for cultural prejudices learned in my adolescence,,,,,I really am not all the bothered by the decision nor am I overly concerned if it stands one way or the other. Just feeling feisty! )

[Soulsearcher]

I feel you are right Snow but that doesn't mean we can't still show some outrage over it.

That being said, a lot of LDS were upset at the fact this suit was filed at all. How dare people challenge this. Some members of the forum consider any activity by gays to be outrageous and wrong, any outrage is just part of the agenda to corrupt all the youth. Both sides need to understand this hits close to home, and while neither side is going to en up completely happy, a lil respect for the feelings of others isn't a bad idea.

[bytor2112]

So you only got married out of sexual desire? there was nothing higher to your relationship than getting the old lady in bed? If that's all marriage is then I'm kinda sad.

Sexual relations are simply a part of relationships. Being most gays really don't see their relationships as sinful, why would they need to get married if they were not worried about sinning out of wedlock? The focus has been put way too much on what happens in the bedroom, which is a vastly inferior amount of time to the rest of life.

Bytor if your marriage is just sex then great, but these people want a single monogamous relationship, bound to someone til the day they die, an expression of not just sex, but devotion and love. Lets be honest marriage is not the institution it once was, and that started long before the gay marriage push. In stead of the focus being on who we need to keep out of the club why do we not focus a lil more on making it the club people are fighting for?

Again, if we have ot get into it, please provide absolute medical proof that this is not a true part of the person. That there is no genetic difference or biological factors? You asked about a species or different gender, but as easy as it is for you to dismiss, you do it simply because it's so easy. No one knows, anyone who claims they know for sure is lying. Yet when gay people tell the truth about how they feel how this is a part of them, their truth automatically means less because it just doesn't fit your truth. So no matter what the gay side says, or experiences, or has gone through it means nothing because you know them better than they know them selves. So if this is the reality, show me the medical and genetic proof that tells you that i know nothing about myself and can't have a leg to stand on.

You are a passionate advocate for your cause. However, I think what they really want is for the State to sanction and approve their relationships. In secular terms, is a couple that is devoted to one another and not legally married (hetero) any less a devoted couple?