Unworthy

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I am coing into all these discussions late but oh well...

After you have informed his Bishop it is no longer in your hands, it is between the boy and his file leader.

You have no authority in the situation unless you are the boy's Dad.

[UrbanFool]

Does one of the GAs have a story from their childhood to guilt these boys into doing the right thing? Like the walking to school in the snow with cardboard cutouts in their shoes. My dad had one for every topic.

[Dove]

Hello, Bytor (everybody),

I'm coming in late on this discussion, so thanks for your patience in my response.

One thing that sticks out in my mind is respecting others' agency. If these boys have grown up in the church I'm fairly certain that they already know what they're doing is wrong. Hence, they will have to deal with God's consequences, sooner or later, rather than yours....

Bytor, this seems to be bothering you on a level that you feel "pants kicking" is an appropriate response to this. This seems angry to me and that you have assumed the right to intervene where it is not your call....

I would suggest some serious prayer and contemplation to get "in tune" to your motives and the intent of your heart as to why you want to intervene so strongly. I believe Justice has given some really good advice that advocates your point of view on this. In the end, it is those boys' decision whether or not to be worthy while passing the sacrament. Remember, there are stiff ramifications quoted in the scriptures for those who knowingly take the sacrament unworthily (damnation being one). I can only believe that this is the same for those who choose to administer this sacred ordinance unworthily.

That being said, I agree with all the others who have said that it is really not your place to intervene and tell them "how it should be." That falls into the hands of the bishop, their parents, the Holy Spirit, and in the end, themselves.

Best of wishes in working through this.

Dove

[Vanhin]

It's a matter of priesthood keys. If the bishop authorizes the boy to pass the sacrament, it is valid. Without the bishop's (or equivalent priesthood leader's) approval, no sacrament can be administered.

About the Great Apostasy, one might wonder how it could have happened with the priesthood so proliferated throughout the ancient Church. The keys of the priesthood, or the loss thereof, is the answer. The chain of authority from the Lord to the individual priesthood bearer was broken.

On a side note. In a recent thread most were condemning a poor fellow who supposedly had a WoW issue, yet he had a temple recommend and attended the temple. He didn't receive the same charity as the boy in question on this thread. Is the sacrament not holy enough to cause concern?

Regards,

Vanhin

[Matthew0059]

bytor-

So, after reading everyone's response: now you know what to do! Just take whichever advice you want.

Seriously, though, I think it depends on the specifics of the situation. Remember 3 Nephi 18:29, that the Disciples (presiding authority) are commanded to not knowingly let any unworthy person partake of the sacrament. Those keys and authority are also given to bishops.

Once you've done what you can do by presenting the bishop your evidence, and he takes action, your responsibility re: them partaking and passing/blessing the sacrament is fulfilled. However, your responsibility as an older brother in CHRIST can still be exercised. If you do decide to talk to them about what's happening, I'd advise (without knowing the situation) to avoid discussing the sacrament and see if you can get them just to level with you. If you can get them to be open and honest, you've won a major battle- from there, you can act as a mentor of sorts.

Are their fathers members? Perhaps you could go to them- it is DEFINITELY within their stewardship to confront the boys.

If you do end up talking to them, remember the sandwich principle- begin and end on a positive note, with the unpleasant topic being in the middle.

Finally, DO search your own soul and make sure you're not gratifying your own pride by talking to these young men (I'm not saying you are- I don't know either way). If your motives are charity and love, then by all means proceed with wisdom and discernment. If your motives are half-charity and half-pride, then pray until your motives become more pure, and then proceed.

[UrbanFool]

This thread reminds me of a corny LDS movie I watched that I can't remember the name of. It was a teen movie with a high school girl who played tennis, the bad boy, and was listed as based off of Alma the younger. In that one, the girl saw the guy drinking, so when it came time for him to be priestified, she didn't raise her hand to sustain him. The bishop spoke to her afterward and she told him why. Isn't this pretty much the same situation? Was it her place to report to the bishop that the guy had been drinking and was not ready for the priesthood?

[anim82r]

I don't know how close this answer would be brother, but several years ago there was this story in Liahona about an inactive father who had a child in a hospital in critical condition. He's been inactive for many years and has done quite a lot of things a LDS isn't supposed to do. He's a Melchizedek Priesthood holder. He had a hard time deciding whether to bless the child or not for he knew he had sinned a great deal against God. He wasn't sure if the blessing would have any effect at all. Eventually he did bless the child. The writer's point here is that the man was a Melchizedek Priesthood holder. In his sinful state he used it to bless his child, and it was well for the writer. It's included in that Liahona Issue. So I think it's okay.

During Sacrament meeting, we may still partake of the Sacramental bread and water no matter the spiritual condition of the person who blessed it. It is him who will be accounted for for blessing the Sacrament knowing he is unworthy, not the worthy partakers, including you who knew about it. Some priesthood who were unworthy did bless the Sacrament simply because they didn't know they were not supposed to bless the Sacrament when they're unworthy. It does happen here in country. But the Bishop or the Branch President, after learning about it, would do everything they could to never let such things happen again.

I think we just have to trust our leaders and see the Wisdom of God in action.