Unworthy

[bytor2112]

What would you do if you knew that some of the Aaron Priesthood was unworthy to bless and/or pass the Sacrament? Suppose you have informed the Bishop and he has interviewed these youth and they denied any wrong doing....BUT you are certain of it?

Do we have responsibility to confront these young men and ask them to not bless or pass the sacrament?

[Gwen]

nope..... unless it's your son.

[JThimm88]

Yikes. That's a tough call. I'm not even sure... but I am looking forward to other answers, as I'm sure you are too.

[bytor2112]

If it were my son...he wouldn't be allowed for sure.

[bytor2112]

I struggle with this because it takes away from the sacredness amd mentally puts the focus on these boys. (I am not the only one who knows)

[pam]

Not much else you can do unfortunately. It's not up to you to confront the boys personally. This becomes an issue between the boys, the Bishop and the Lord.

[Gwen]

when i was in yw's there were ym that we knew were not doing what they ought to (nothing "major" but not living worthily). i knew some yw that let those things bother them and take away from the ordinance for them. some yw would refuse to partake if that ym passed to them or if they blessed. i always found that to be foolish. the ym will have to sort out what they have done with the lord. the ordinance will be as valid as the person partaking is worthy to do so. just as if the ym is worthy but someone partakes unworthily. it won't take away from the service of the ym. it's a lesson we must all learn. not to sound harsh but you need to stop worrying about others worthiness and judging them and worry about your own.

the only exception i have to this is a situation i know of that allowing a ym (who had committed a great offense) to pass unworthily causing severe psychological damage to someone in the congregation.

[NeuroTypical]

This is the easiest thing in the world.

What would you do if you knew that some of the Aaron Priesthood was unworthy to bless and/or pass the Sacrament?

Tell the Bishop.

Suppose you have informed the Bishop and he has interviewed these youth and they denied any wrong doing....BUT you are certain of it?

Look to those within your stewardship, as the Bishop is looking to those in his. In other words, get over it and mind your own business.

Do we have responsibility to confront these young men and ask them to not bless or pass the sacrament?

No. Not unless you hold some sort of position of authority or stewardship over the young man in question.

I once heard an Apostle give counsel to a gathering of Bishops. One asked him what they should do if someone came for a temple recommend interview and lied through their teeth. The Apostle told them to not get in the way of the member and their God. Unless the spirit directed otherwise, the Bishop should give the temple recommend.

Folks got their agency. It's not our job to get in the way of it.

LM

[bytor2112]

As Elder's we are to watch over the church......right?

[pam]

As Elder's we are to watch over the church......right?

Whether that is true or not, it's not always your stewardship to approach Deacons who may not be worthy. That would be the Bishop's who is president or over the Aaronic Priesthood.

If all Elders had the attitude that they are watching over the Church per se, can you imagine the chaos and discord there would be? That's why there are callings and stewardships over different aspects of the church organization.

[bytor2112]

Whether that is true or not, it's not always your stewardship to approach Deacons who may not be worthy. That would be the Bishop's who is president or over the Aaronic Priesthood.

If all Elders had the attitude that they are watching over the Church per se, can you imagine the chaos and discord there would be? That's why there are callings and stewardships over different aspects of the church organization.

Well...it is in Doctrine and Covenants. So what does it mean to "watch over the church"?

[pam]

Have a reference so I can read it?

[bytor2112]

Have a reference so I can read it?

Elder and Elders Quorum Presidency

Elders are to teach, expound, baptize, and watch over the Church. In addition to having the authority and responsibilities of Aaronic Priesthood offices, elders may bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost, administer to the sick, and perform other ordinances (see “Priesthood Ordinances and Blessings” in the Family Guidebook). When authorized by their priesthood leaders, elders may preside over Church meetings when no authorized high priest is present. (See D&C 20:42–45; 107:11.)

[darrel]

Home teaching:)

Certainly priesthood bearers must be worthy (D&C 121:37). However we need to be careful not to set ourselves up to judge them. Others have said it is the Bishop, a judge in Israel, and the Lord who are to judge. So unless we have the direct responsibility in our stewardship to them, we must remember we too have sins and beams in our own eye and will be judged accordingly.

Edited August 28, 2010 by darrel
punctuation

[john doe]

If the bishop has been informed, then the matter is out of your hands. Take the sacrament, even if they may be unworthy to administer it, the power of the atonement is still contained therein. You will still receive the renewal of covenants in full.

[bytor2112]

Home teaching:)

Certainly priesthood bearers must be worthy (D&C 121:37). However we need to be careful not to set ourselves up to judge them. Others have said it is the Bishop ,a judge in Israel and the Lord who are to judge So unless we have the direct responsibility to them, We too have sins and beams in our own eye and will be judged accordingly.

While home teaching is certainly part of it...I tend to think it extends beyond.

Imagine if you will that you witness a Priest smoking a cigarette. Do you confront him or ignore it? Do you tell the Bishop...his parents or no one? And suppose you do tell the Bishop or parents and the boy denies? Duty served?

The situations I am referring to are much more serious.....and I intend to confront the boys. I know them pretty well....I was their Scout Master for several years.

[Soulsearcher]

What will your confronting do really? If you know they already lied to the Bishop what do you really hope to accomplish aside from personal pride in confronting them and telling them you know they lied? Don't really see it changing much except they know who brought it to the Bishops attention and any standing you have with them will be lost.

[darrel]

You certinly have the agency to do what you think is best. I would be very cautious that whatever I did would not cause a young man to fall away. My own sons are not active because of this situation. The spirit of Love and direction of the Holy Ghost are most important weapons we need to approach these issues. This is why those with priesthood responsibility should be the ones to address it.

[Wingnut]

...and I intend to confront the boys.

So what are you asking us for?

[pam]

Elder and Elders Quorum Presidency

Elders are to teach, expound, baptize, and watch over the Church. In addition to having the authority and responsibilities of Aaronic Priesthood offices, elders may bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost, administer to the sick, and perform other ordinances (see “Priesthood Ordinances and Blessings” in the Family Guidebook). When authorized by their priesthood leaders, elders may preside over Church meetings when no authorized high priest is present. (See D&C 20:42–45; 107:11.)

Of course I've never held the Priesthood and of course have never had any of the Priesthood lessons. However, if I were to take this at face value, I don't take it to mean that watching over the Church means that Elders are responsible for reporting everything that anyone in the Church does if they feel it is wrong.

Watching over the Church to me is making sure that our members are taken care of. Home teaching is a great example of this. It's missionary work to those that are already members. Nothing more. Home teachers aren't their judge in Israel.

[bytor2112]

It won't be in a harsh manner and I am not going to accuse them of lying or being unworthy. But, I am going to remind them of their responsibility as a Priesthood holder.

[bytor2112]

So what are you asking us for?

Feedback.

[jayanna]

OKay, while you do not have authority over them...

If the other members in the ward approach you about it, do not discuss, complain, or speculate, send them immediately to the bishop.

by the mouth of two or three witnesses.

But remember, you do not have authority in any way, unless you have stewardship over them.

You must keep taking the sacrament, it is still a true sacrament.

My hubby shared with me an example of this from the N.T. Peter kept attending the temple, even after Jesus' resurrection, even when he KNEW they were doing it wrong...but he kept going, because it was still the house of the Lord, since He cleansed it, and Peter knew he would need to spend time in the Lord's house, to be near Him.

Someone once told me they had a problem with me making the sacrament bread. Which is weird, because I didn't tell them I made it, they just asked around until they found out, I guess. I did it about 3 or 4 times a year. They said that it took away from the Lord, and put the focus on me. They said that I was trying to make a tradition of home-made bread for sacrament. Wow. I said that I was sorry if I gave the impression that I wanted the sacrament to be about me, and I assured the person I spoke to that it was always a very sacred experience for me to prepare the bread, and I only did it when I was prompted.

The sacrament is about what you make it about, if you are focusing on Christ, it will be about Christ, if you are focusing on the guy in the third row that you don't think is worthy to take it, that's what it will be about.

9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am anot as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Luke 18

Edited August 28, 2010 by jayanna

[jayanna]

Elder and Elders Quorum Presidency

Elders are to teach, expound, baptize, and watch over the Church.

When authorized by their priesthood leaders, elders may preside over Church meetings when no authorized high priest is present. (See D&C 20:42–45; 107:11.)

You have answered your own question...WHEN do elders preside, when WHO is not present, when they have been authorized beforehand...

Those are the conditions

You are to 'watch over', not police, or judge, don't be that ice cream truck driver that writes the traffic ticket

[skippy740]

Unless the spirit directed otherwise, the Bishop should give the temple recommend.

Don't you think the spirit would direct otherwise?