Rap music and "meaning".

[dorave]

Wow! I guess a lot can happen while I am typing!

Prince of Light,

Nice link with Psybot.... what's your opinion on Pacifica from the Ultramax concert?

Pam,

Thanks for the reminder.... I will try to be civil. :)

That's kinda ill. Peep this ol' gem from a band out of Japan YouTube - Sugar Plant - Rise (original short size)

[PrinceofLight2000]

That's kinda ill. Peep this ol' gem from a Duo out of Japan YouTube - Sugar Plant - Rise (original short size)

Capsule is better.

[dorave]

Capsule is better.

Yeah to anyone barely past puberty.

[TheActualLiz]

I've always opposed defining hiphop, or trying to, as it was a convergent evolutionary group of elements organically coming together and being what anyone wanted it to be. Becoming an unrestricted vehicle of expression for those that felt oppressed had no or limited means to express themselves in a positive fashion.

Kool Herc, Afrika Bambaataa, Grandmaster Flash, Sugarhill Gang n all the originators just created what they felt like creating, using stuff they enjoyed disco/funk and making it their own, taking it a step further. This enabled Kids that couldn't sing, who could now rap. Those that couldn't afford expensive instruments, the possibility of making their own music by manipulating the family record player, sampling other artists recorded material, cutting it n scratching it up to make it there own, getting the beat timed on the break. Kids that couldn't use canvas to paint used trains. You didn't need to go dancing class to do the moves you just created your own, same goes with rapping - you just expressed what you felt, warts n all, your limitations that would not be accepted in other artforms made your output in hiphop much more enhanced, accent, delivery, high/low voice tones slangs, incorrect grammer, foreign language was embraced not rejected. And people were compelled to it regardless of its technical flaws because they could relate to it, the higher tempos opened the door for versitilaty with a more ranged possibility of musical output than most genres, where you could create from 70bpm - 140bpm. One did not feel distanced like you would find in other artforms or musical genres, due to all these factors and combined with its accessibility, it became a representation of you and people like you -- this was especially apaealing to those living in the lower ends of society.

I don't think hiphop at it's core back in the late 70s is anything near the structured artform it is today. With all the ghostwriting, contractual oversight, hiring of external musical producers and artistry restriction nowadays I cant even say it is art, pop art sure.... but whats pop art worth these days? a worthless download?

There is was no gatekeeper to say whats hiphop or what isnt, there is just your own personal compass that could identify and dig it.

By what criteria should rap be judged?

I say, whatever you can honestly claim that - 'that was fresh..' to, meaning innovation or 'that was dope' meaning honest intent. Judge an artist or rap on it's merit to be both honest, or to/and push boundries, both musically and intellectually.

Grandmaster Dorave has spoken.

Dorave,

So am I correct in understanding that the merits of hip hop and rap are in no particular order the following?

1. Romantic merit (ability to express emotion)

2. Accessibility (both in terms of production and reception)

3. Innovation (creating or remaking art in ways never thought of before)

4. Open Source Access (ability to share and change existing material)

5. Social Change (bringing hidden problems into mainstream light)

These seem like reasonable criteria for assessing the merits of a particular piece of art.

Given these standards what would your opinion be on the following two examples which can be found in modern commercial work? Both address the very real problem of broken homes in very different ways. ::warning some language... no offense intended::

Would you say that these two are equivalent or that one is better than the other?

[TheActualLiz]

Thanks for the links both of you! All three are good examples of their respective styles and enjoyable in different ways. :)

[FlaviusHambonius]

Haha, well. I'm not a fan of the Beatles personally,

I forgive you.

[dorave]

Dorave,

So am I correct in understanding that the merits of hip hop and rap are in no particular order the following?

1. Romantic merit (ability to express emotion)

2. Accessibility (both in terms of production and reception)

3. Innovation (creating or remaking art in ways never thought of before)

4. Open Source Access (ability to share and change existing material)

5. Social Change (bringing hidden problems into mainstream light)

These seem like reasonable criteria for assessing the merits of a particular piece of art.

Given these standards what would your opinion be on the following two examples which can be found in modern commercial work? Both address the very real problem of broken homes in very different ways. ::warning some language... no offense intended::

Would you say that these two are equivalent or that one is better than the other?

ur 5 points are good, and both tracks are equal id say, sorry for my briief answer as I gotta go.