Rap music and "meaning".

[PrinceofLight2000]

I'll kick this off with a discussion I'm having on another forum.

Rap is entertainment. Don't go looking for depth and anything more then a song that makes you wanna move if you're listening to anything on the radio.

True about 85% of the time, I'd say. The genre needs less vulgarity and more meaning, imo.

<censored> meaning. Vulgarity is the spice of life, it is the common language we all share, it is the reason the day you heard a rapper use the word "swag" or "dope" you didn't have to do look it up. Meaning is self-aggrandizing, it's taking the humanity we all share and attempting to put yourself above it, to act as if you count for more because you bothered to read a political blog and incorporate it in your music. You should never want the "meaningful" (which, in the end, is what makes it useless because the parody-of-itself "air quotes" are necessary to define the type of meaning you're talking about) over the vulgar. Give me 'A Milli', give me 'Black and Yellow', give me Nicki Minaj's verse from 'Monster' from now until the end of time. <censored> meaning.

I didn't realize talking about having sex with every woman in sight and glamorizing violence while cursing like you'll turn mute the next day was what defined humanity as a whole. Forgive me.

Now that you've seen my take on the subject, what's yours? This genre has great potential and really should be cleaned up.

[Wingnut]

My take? The person you're conversing with over there is an idiot.

[PrinceofLight2000]

My take? The person you're conversing with over there is an idiot.

You can say that again.

[livyb]

Mainstream rap is terrible I will admit. But there is plenty that you dont hear on the radio that is great.

[PrinceofLight2000]

Mainstream rap is terrible I will admit. But there is plenty that you dont hear on the radio that is great.

Extremely hard to come by. The only rap song I've found that has good lyrics and in the style I enjoy is Linkin Park's "Dedicated".

[livyb]

It isnt that terribly hard to come by.

I do disagree with the person you were arguing with when they say vulgarity is necessary. But I dont disagree when they said not to look too deep for meaning and such. All music doesnt have to be profound; We do need music that is just good to "mob" or dance to. And by we I mean people who enjoy such activites.

[TheActualLiz]

Mainstream rap is terrible I will admit. But there is plenty that you dont hear on the radio that is great.

Agreed. This is one of my favorites from Blackalicious... of course you will never hear it on the radio.

Rain and thunder and lightning

Crumbling buildings

Falling hurricanes

Earth shattering membranes

Scattering insane

Happening

Souls keeps burning

And the sky keeps plummeting

Now--

The sky is falling, life is appalling

And death is lurking, ***** killing each other

Leaving bodies nobodies searching for

And youth announced ..., catching a bit of murder one

And mothers is drinking and drugging, hoe-in; searching for their son

And liquor stores upon every corner

And younger people done accepted defeating

The melting pot of lavas seeping

And the hood is all the mic can conceive when your foes bleeding to their death

And you picking their pocket

Wanna just get even

***** is banging and coppers is banging punk snuggin

Highly intelligent Africans lowered to punk smuggin

And capitals of the planet, planets run by the government

And genocide 's overwhelming, devil is loving it

And children in highschool go 'n smokin their classes up

And people thats rich don't be checking for what is happening

Degrading all women, knock em up, leave em, now smack em up

And ain't no way to reach us we're sleeping like **** castle

Sky is falling

Rain and thunder and lightning

Crumbling buildings

Falling hurricanes

Earth shattering membranes

Scattering insane

Happening

Souls keeps burning

And the sky keeps plummeting

Now--

Rain and thunder and lightning

Crumbling buildings

Falling hurricanes

Earth shattering membranes

Scattering insane

Happening

Souls keeps burning

And the sky keeps plummeting

Now--

Rain and thunder and lightning

Crumbling buildings

Falling hurricanes

Earth shattering membranes

Scattering insane

Happening

Souls keeps burning

And the sky keeps plummeting

Now--

The sky is falling, no one is watching

Tornadoes twisting wheres nobody is listening

And fires no one pays attention

Energies are erupting

Blurring the intentional vision

Doctors and lawyers and scientists all are locked in the prison of the mind

And all the youth are unreachable but they teachable

But emcees don't be teaching them too

Down deep down in their soul

Amongst the prostitution and pimping, robbing and stealing

We give a name

sab-a truth

This is *****-land

Glad to knew ya

But give a ****

For the future

Religions is institutionalized

Hittin truths, even youths...alized

You got two pistols at the head of your own people

Its lethal but its living proof

Instead of leaving smiles leaven death inside of our living room

And instead of college they got us slangin after highschool

For the love of the money and everything that it will buy you

Everybody out for that

And they kill you if you a rival

20 lines and 1 stake on the table

Its about survival

The sky is falling

Rain and thunder and lightning

Crumbling buildings

Falling hurricanes

Earth shattering membranes

Scattering insane

Happening

Souls keeps burning

And the sky keeps plummeting

Now--

Revelation

From the Now ...

To the Temptation

Calm ... the Fury

All .... .....

Drown the confusion

Through the devastation

Live in the trees of elimination

Truth is absolute

Prophets Cant wait long

...... ....

Cant take long

Revelation

Devastation

Better stay strong

[PrinceofLight2000]

It isnt that terribly hard to come by.

I do disagree with the person you were arguing with when they say vulgarity is necessary. But I dont disagree when they said not to look too deep for meaning and such. All music doesnt have to be profound; We do need music that is just good to "mob" or dance to. And by we I mean people who enjoy such activites.

Except you can still "mob" to profound rap which has meaning.

Agreed. This is one of my favorites from Blackalicious... of course you will never hear it on the radio.

[lyrics]

That song is actually salvageable after censoring out the bad words, lol. Looks good to me.

[livyb]

Yes you can still to profound music. But that doesnt change the fact that everything doesnt need to be profound :)

[PrinceofLight2000]

Yes you can still to profound music. But that doesnt change the fact that everything doesnt need to be highly profound :)

Fixed.

Profundity is often in the eye of the beholder when it's present at some level, but this genre has managed to completely and entirely erase it for a majority of the time.

Edited October 16, 2010 by PrinceofLight2000

[livyb]

I wouldnt say a majority of a time. But thats also becuase Ive Heard other rappers that you havent.

AND Ill say again. When you just want to jam in the car or on the dance floor depth isnt necessary. It serves not purpose in these instances anyway.

[PrinceofLight2000]

I wouldnt say a majority of a time. But thats also becuase Ive Heard other rappers that you havent.

AND Ill say again. When you just want to jam in the car or on the dance floor depth isnt necessary. It serves not purpose in these instances anyway.

In your opinion. Some of us like to think, and some more of us would rather not be assaulted by explicit content when we're trying to have a good time.

If it truly doesn't matter, why do you seem to care when I say all rap should have some level of depth, small or otherwise? You can dance to it regardless.

[livyb]

I agree with the explicitity and such. That gets on my nerves and is always unnecessary.

It is mostly true that you can dance to it anyways. But also I find that for certain dance settings the depth can take away from the dance. And by certain settings i mean dance performance. Sometimes the depth is great for the choreographer and sometimes it isnt.

I never said it doesnt matter at all. I said in those two situations it isnt necessary. Sometimes appreciated. But sometimes it isnt. For me any way.

So what I am trying to say is yes keep the profound music (and keep it clean) But dont do away with the non profound music either.

[PrinceofLight2000]

I agree with the explicitity and such. That gets on my nerves and is always unnecessary.

It is mostly true that you can dance to it anyways. But also I find that for certain dance settings the depth can take away from the dance. And by certain settings i mean dance performance. Sometimes the depth is great for the choreographer and sometimes it isnt.

I never said it doesnt matter at all. I said in those two situations it isnt necessary. Sometimes appreciated. But sometimes it isnt. For me any way.

So what I am trying to say is yes keep the profound music (and keep it clean) But dont do away with the non profound music either.

I think we're having a bit of miscommunication, liv. What exactly do you mean by "non profound"? I feel that even simple topics have depth so long as there isn't base, tasteless, vulgar, or profane lyrical content. In other words, only the explicit or vulgar stuff is entirely without depth.

[livyb]

There is music that is not profound but also not vulgar.

[PrinceofLight2000]

There is music that is not profound but also not vulgar.

Such as?

[livyb]

A non rap example would be Lady Gagas Telephone

Rap : Lil Wayne and T pains "Got Money"

Shop Boys Party Like A Rockstar

Dem Franchize boys Lean wit it Rock it

[TheActualLiz]

There is music that is not profound but also not vulgar.

By this do you mean "happy hardcore" and "techno classica"? I love those forms of music too but I still find them profound in a very different way. Even with few or no lyrics the work conveys tremendous emotion and I find it deeply moving.

As far as the 5 words I censored out of that song... actually 2 words but one was used 4 times.... please understand that I went extra heavy on the censor button given the nature of this forum. If some radio station had the guts to play rap that was written by highly gifted artists that lifted people up rather than pushing stereotypes then the song would play uncensored.

Here is another one: First in Flight by Blackalicious

[CHORUS:]

First in flight [repeated 4X]

[Gil Scott-Heron:]

(Cause all we got is rhythm and timin'

We go beyond the edge of the sky)

[Gift of Gab]

FREE! Like a bird out in the wind in the night

Like a 747 to LA that's in flight

FREE! Like a garden flourishing in the wind

Like a student bout to do it when he's graduatin

FREE! From any of the energy perception

Can never be defined create the definition within

FREE! Just lovin life itself and never pretend to be

Anything other than the man I was meant to be

Travel through time and get a glimpse of the centuries

To come a better day is promised remember

FREE! Like my nephew in a few months about to be out the penitentiary

Meditation [repeated 9X]

[Chorus]

[Gift of Gab]

UH! I never hesitate about a reluctant mind

Just put the peddle to the metal see what ya find

You back there slouchin over won't you pick up your spine?

Let's make it really really happen live up this time

Cause you can choose to say "Good morning God" or "Good ***, morning"

With black clouds storming

I walk without umbrellas into these woods

Don't need em cause the mighty trees will shelter me good

I'm eating berries from the bushes of the heavenly good

From the ?stakes/steaks? the power came to us whenever we stood

Reverberatin out we're reachin each and every hood

Whenver we could the spiritual anatomy fool

But never take the credit for it B cause that'd be rude

It's just the way in life we searchin for that had to be new

You gotta work it though cause everyday ain't Saturday fool

Evolve into a better life and be happy with you and me

[Chorus]

[Gil Scott-Heron]

The first to fly

The first to strive

The first to fight to stay alive

The first to win

The first to strike

The first to live

The first in flight

[Gift of Gab]

RISE! Like the sun up at the crack of the dawn

Like a wakin child in the morning stretchin and yawnin

RISE! Like an infant being held in the light

Like the smoke from an incense when it's ignited

RISE! If you're sleepin won't you open your eyes again

The greatest high be that natural high within

No need to force the progression just ride the wind

You'll know the answer to the where and why and when

If you keep workin for your search you will find the end

Though at the end you find it only begins again

See at the end you'll see it only begins again

And everything you learn you're only rememberin

Cause you're

[Chorus (repeat 4X)]

[Gift of Gab: repeat 2X]

It's me

Let your mind and your soul be free

Work to shine meet your goal believe

Spread that kind of L-O-V-E

Take some time off the lonely

[Gil Scott-Heron: repeat to end]

Cause all we got is rhythm and timin'

We go beyond the edge of the sky

Only one potential bleep.... even in this forum.

[PrinceofLight2000]

A non rap example would be Lady Gagas Telephone

Rap : Lil Wayne and T pains "Got Money"

Shop Boys Party Like A Rockstar

Dem Franchize boys Lean wit it Rock it

Gaga - It's about getting wasted at a club and not answering your phone because of it from what I can read, so, explicit. Edit: forget explicit and make it crude instead.

Wayne and T - About sex, materialism, and infidelity.

Shop Boyz - Also about sex.

Dem Franchize Boys - About sex, drugs, and materialism.

Edited October 16, 2010 by PrinceofLight2000

[livyb]

They are not all about sex and drinking.

There maybe drinking content in them,(everyone doesnt agree that a drink or two is a sin ) but I dont think you can assume its about getting wasted.

In any case, we arent going to see eye to eye and that is fine.

[PrinceofLight2000]

By this do you mean "happy hardcore" and "techno classica"? I love those forms of music too but I still find them profound in a very different way. Even with few or no lyrics the work conveys tremendous emotion and I find it deeply moving.

As far as the 5 words I censored out of that song... actually 2 words but one was used 4 times.... please understand that I went extra heavy on the censor button given the nature of this forum. If some radio station had the guts to play rap that was written by highly gifted artists that lifted people up rather than pushing stereotypes then the song would play uncensored.

Here is another one: First in Flight by Blackalicious

I think the subject at hand only deals with music that has lyrics. All music without lyrics has depth and emotion, imo.

That was a great song. Did it take the Lord's name in vain? That's what it looked like. Whenever that happens i examine the context and try to see if there's a method of interpretation in which the use of God's name could be seen as a prayer.

[captmoroniRM]

hehe

In all seriousness, I don't consider rap as music. As a musician myself, its like nails on a chalkboard. At best, it barely follows music theory. Most of it is just someone talking to a pre-programmed beat track. Most importantly, I have yet to find a rap that edifies, and we are instructed in the scriptures "that which does not edify, is not of me."

There is power in real and wholesome music. My dad, years ago, worked in a music store in southern VA where due to the demographics, rap tends to be very popular. All the time, guys would come in and start playing around with the synthesizer keyboards, playing drum tracks, and trying to rap or what not. He said that this always repelled people actually looking to invest in pianos for their kids or themselves. One day, it got so bad that customers kept leaving because of the wanna-be rappers.

My dad went into the back, found one of the piano teachers, and asked him to go out in front and play the most complex, fast, and intense classical piece he could. The teacher, who didn't have anything going on at the time did, sat down on a piano in the show room and went to town. The look on the face of the "rappers" was as if they'd been shot. The guys started trickling out. When he was done, the teacher asked my dad what that was about. My dad simply smiled and said "Rap repellent."

I'll have to see if I can find the article, but my dad always mentioned that when he was new in the Church, back in the late 70's, one of the brethren counseled the members to avoid music where the beat overwhelms the lyrics and melody. This was pretty much before the advent of rap music.

[PrinceofLight2000]

They are not all about sex and drinking.

There maybe drinking content in them,(everyone doesnt agree that a drink or two is a sin ) but I dont think you can assume its about getting wasted.

In any case, we arent going to see eye to eye and that is fine.

"sippin' that bubb'"..."I left my head and heart on the dance floor"

Sounds pretty clear to me. She's drinking to the point of fogged memory and clubbing to forget about her clingy boyfriend.

[PrinceofLight2000]

They are not all about sex and drinking.

There maybe drinking content in them,(everyone doesnt agree that a drink or two is a sin ) but I dont think you can assume its about getting wasted.

In any case, we arent going to see eye to eye and that is fine.

"sippin' that bubb'"..."I left my head and heart on the dance floor"

Sounds pretty clear to me. She's drinking to the point of fogged memory and clubbing to forget about her clingy boyfriend.

[img[http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3651/3285738288_720cb15f54.jpg

hehe

In all seriousness, I don't consider rap as music. As a musician myself, its like nails on a chalkboard. At best, it barely follows music theory. Most of it is just someone talking to a pre-programmed beat track. Most importantly, I have yet to find a rap that edifies, and we are instructed in the scriptures "that which does not edify, is not of me."

There is power in real and wholesome music. My dad, years ago, worked in a music store in southern VA where due to the demographics, rap tends to be very popular. All the time, guys would come in and start playing around with the synthesizer keyboards, playing drum tracks, and trying to rap or what not. He said that this always repelled people actually looking to invest in pianos for their kids or themselves. One day, it got so bad that customers kept leaving because of the wanna-be rappers.

My dad went into the back, found one of the piano teachers, and asked him to go out in front and play the most complex, fast, and intense classical piece he could. The teacher, who didn't have anything going on at the time did, sat down on a piano in the show room and went to town. The look on the face of the "rappers" was as if they'd been shot. The guys started trickling out. When he was done, the teacher asked my dad what that was about. My dad simply smiled and said "Rap repellent."

I'll have to see if I can find the article, but my dad always mentioned that when he was new in the Church, back in the late 70's, one of the brethren counseled the members to avoid music where the beat overwhelms the lyrics and melody. This was pretty much before the advent of rap music.

The biggest appeal about rap for me, as in eminem's style (NOT content), is that you can have a whole lot of lyrical content delivered quickly and effectively. It makes for great poetry when done right. I've thought about writing raps myself.

In rap songs like that, the lyrics take center stage and the beat is just a vehicle. I love it.

Oh, and here's a good example of a rap that edifies: YouTube - Dedicated - Linkin Park (Demo 1999) (High Quality!!)

Also, there's quite a bit of Christian rap out there. Manafest is a good example. It's wholesome, but I don't enjoy it because the level of depth isn't sufficient enough for me.

Edited October 16, 2010 by PrinceofLight2000

[Wingnut]

My take? The person you're conversing with over there is an idiot.

You can say that again.

Okay.

The person you're conversing with over there is an idiot.

Gaga - It's about getting wasted at a club and not answering your phone because of it from what I can read, so, explicit.

I disagree. Less-than appropriate? Yes. Chases away the Spirit (if you use that benchmark)? Yes. Not uplifting or enriching? Yes. Explicit? No.