Knowing What to Do (Suffering and the Holy Spirit)

[AnglicanJohn]

Hello LDS Friends,

Unfortunately I think I have inadvertently broken one of the site rules by signing up with a new profile. I have done this to keep some things private and I hope you understand when you read my post.

Last year I was confirmed into the Anglican faith and the experience has been amazing for me.

However this year has been a struggle. Anything that could go wrong did go wrong. My mood has faltered and I still fail to hear the holy spirit guiding me and directing me. I feel pretty lousy at the moment with everything on top of me, I don't know which way to turn.

I also have problems at work, not of my own making, just various problems, made worse by a manager who is inconsistent in his approach that you don't know whether you're coming or going. I don't feel like staying, but my career is ruined where I work and people around me tell me how stupid it is to leave work without something else to go to, especially in this economic climate.

I come to various passages in the Bible talking about the benefit of work, how being happy at work is a gift from good, and how a prudent man sees danger and seeks refuge. Is it stupid to stay in a job that is killing you, or is it stupid to leave knowing you will have no income.

I also believe that my job is detrimental to my faith in that when I get home, Im so mentally exhausted, I don't have time for a lot except to unwind.

It worries me that I still cannot hear the still small voice guiding me and telling me what to do, stay and learn, or trust in God and quit.

This brings me to the purpose of the post and honest question to those of the LDS faith.

I know the LDS seem to have a very secure relationship with the holy spirit. Im not doubting God, or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit in any way, just my ability to hear. Im scared that I feel nothing after being confirmed in a non-LDS faith. For all I know, this could be normal. For LDs, what does the Holy Spirit do to you? Can you discern him quite easily? Does he guide 100%? Does he maintain you and keep you happy?

In terms of bad, abusive situation where no amount of assertiveness or love will help, do the LDS still follow a love your enemy approach and suffer torment for it? Or do you see danger, perhaps an uncompromising and unwilling spirit and do you get out of the situation? What does the Holy Spirit tell you to do in these situations?

I would love to know your thoughts.

John

[martybess]

John,

Sounds like you are in the mist of some trials, hope things improve for you.

The thought of not having the "Gift" of the Holy Ghost is most disconcerting to me John. And I will be frank we as Latter Day Saints feel we have that gift promised us if we take upon us the name of Christ, keep his commandments and do always remember him by way of a covenant. In turn we will have the gift of the Holy Ghost. Other religions can only be blessed from time to time by the Holy Ghost. This is not to say it can't testify or witness to non-LDS folks but, .... only to bring them to the truthfulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints. Mostly it's a still small voice. What does that mean?

Please read the link.

https://new.lds.org/study/topics/holy-ghost?lang=eng

How has the Holy Ghost helped you? | Mormon.org

Marty

Edited November 1, 2010 by martybess

[NeuroTypical]

For LDs, what does the Holy Spirit do to you? Can you discern him quite easily? Does he guide 100%? Does he maintain you and keep you happy?

First and foremost, the thing I've learned is that different saints report different experiences. So here's mine. Here are two things I wrote a few years back that pretty much cover everything I have to say on the issue.:

I was working away quietly, thinking about reality, wondering if I'd ever know what it was, and thinking about an unresolved situation in my life. I was at a crossroads, only tangentially related to my quest to discover the truth about the Book of Mormon. As I thought about this crossroads, trying to discern what to make out of the facts before me, I thought something along the lines of "Well, this pattern indicates that things are moving in the right direction... "

And it happened.

Words can't really explain it - they can only approximate it.

It was unmistakable, not a warm fuzzy, not an emotional reaction.

I had my answer. It was "yes".

It was a strong, internal sensation. Not a feeling - I wasn't happy or sad. The best word is "confirmation" . And what was it confirming? Many things. It was confirming that yes, I had just said something true - the pattern I was looking at was indeed moving in the right direction. It confirmed that there WAS a right direction. It confirmed that this notion of reality that I had looked at - this bizarre tale of prophets and plates and revelations and restorations, had the added benefit of being true.

A few side details:

* The first thing that dawned on me was, "My gosh, this is the Holy Ghost speaking with me!" The second thought that came a few minutes later was "My gosh, I've felt this before!" In one or two of the most stressful times of my life, I had felt that sensation before. I had written off the experience at the time, but realization flooded me - the Lord had stood by me, even while I was inactive.

* Other people tell me their conversion stories, and they are often different. My Bishop, as a young man, was watching a sunset, and said a brief prayer "thank you, God", and heard the words as clear as day "You'll be all right - I'll always take care of you". My experience was different. Another guy from my ward had been desiring to feel the Love of Christ - and felt it unexpectedly when he stood up to shake hands with a brother from another ward. They stood there with clasped hands, with tears flowing down both their faces. My experience was different - there was not a lot of emotion (although I pretty soon felt exhilleration, as it sank in what was happening). My wife's grandfather was on a bar stool 40 years ago, having left the church, and was almost knocked to the floor by the words "Wayne, why hast thou forsaken me?" I heard no words. The energy and the impact was internal to me, not external like it was to him.

* I have since felt this impression, this confirmation, quite often. As I returned to church in full force, keeping my baptismal covenant, the Holy Ghost has been, at points in my life, my constant companion.

* I have since been able to test this "answer", this influence of the spirit, this burning in the bosom, fairly scientifically. I've been able, once, to "switch" it on and off several times, by asking the Lord in prayer "should I do this?.... should I not do this?... should I do this?"

[rameumptom]

We believe that the Light of Christ, one of the powers of the Holy Spirit, is given to all mankind so as to be able to tell right from wrong. Many call this the conscience, which is a part of the Light of Christ.

The Gift of the Holy Ghost is a stronger revelator with more gifts to share with a person. It is a lifetime struggle for all of us to strive to have the Spirit with us at all times. Distractions, sins, stress and many other things can make our spiritual strength wane and affect our spiritual walk.

First things to do is to return to the basics: prayer and scripture study. Make sure your prayers are deep and sincere enough so that they do not bounce off your ceiling, but go all the way to heaven. Make sure you take time to ponder the scriptures, and how they apply to you personally. These two things will help strengthen you, and increase your ability to have the Spirit with you.

One thing you may wish to do, is pray concerning your job. Should you patiently stay, or begin seeking other employment. Be aware that God does not answer questions that we have not struggled over. God is more likely to give an answer that we've brought to him with a possible solution than one which we've given little or no thought over. Make your prayers specific, and the answer you seek from God specific.

"Shall I stay with my current job? If yes, let my heart feel peace from the Spirit. If no, then let this struggle continue."

If the Lord says "no", then you know it is time to make changes. You can then ask him, "Shall I seek a replacement job?" If he tells you "yes", you know you shouldn't just walk out on the job, but take the time to search for a new one.

Another key point: make time to exercise. Your body is the temple of God, and being such, it is the vessel of your spirit. If it is stressed or ill, it cannot bear your spirit well. Exercise will reduce stress, and give you more energy to work and do whatever is necessary when you do come home after work.

It also may be, regarding your faith, that the Lord gave it to you as a springboard for your initial Christian walk. It is possible you are now ready for the next level of truth, which may be in another Christian religion. The Anglicans are a good church, but perhaps there is somewhere else the Lord would have you be right now, which comes closer to His greatest truths. The same scripture study and prayer can help you to make that determination. Ponder on what it was initially that filled you with the Spirit, and determine if those things are still provided by your church, or not. Also ponder on if the Lord is ready to take you to the next higher spiritual step. Then ask Him in specific prayer just where it is he would like you to be or to investigate.

Good luck on the search for peace and happiness. The world makes us all struggle for it. But if we endure well, and search diligently, we all may find it.

[UtahValleyGirl]

I think that when we are exhausted, we can't listen to what is best for us. Because there are levels of needs, we have to make sure that the most basic levels are taken care of before we can be clear on anything else.

When I'm tired and depressed I can't hear anything except "nap time!"

[AnglicanJohn]

Thank you all for your replies, especially to rame, that really spoke volumes to me.

To Marty, just to clear up, I don't doubt the Holy Spirit in my life, but I think I can say that I personally am not in a stage where I can hear him.

I was expecting life to get easier after becoming a Christian, that Jesus would be a literal shield, armour, and that the Holy Spirit would shout at me if I was about to do something wrong and guide me in the truth, and that is all Im seeking.

I actually got turned on to the LDS faith initially many years ago, but Moronis promise never rang true for me, and all the prayer I gave to God and sincerest searching never said a word to me.

After much searching, someone said just pick a church and Go, so I picked one I didn't much care for and didn't look back, I was filled with a sense of purpose, and passion, devotion. I think Satan has tried holding me back because I do remember one day feeling really depressed and doubtful and praying and all that funk lifted.

Now I am determined that my faith will not be rocked, but Im beginning to wonder whether Christians are destined for a life of torment on Earth and turning the other cheek and doing otherwise would almost be blasphemy and not recognising the wonderful gifts in heaven.

One more question, what do LDS people do about distractions? Suffer them or embrace them?

John

Edited November 1, 2010 by AnglicanJohn

[beefche]

John, I know you are not of our faith, but your latest post reminded me of something Elder Holland said (of the quorum of the 12 Apostles in our church). He spoke at a local congregation and talked about how when we are having bad times in our life, when we are depressed, when life seems to be so hard, that we are NEVER to doubt our God and His love. He said that we have to remember that we are not immune to difficulty, trials, or anything else. We have several people in the scriptures to remind us that no one is immune to the difficulties this life offers--including Jesus, Himself.

So, as you work through this difficult time, remember that there IS a reason for it. You will have to find that reason yourself, but remember that we cannot have faith if that faith is not tested....otherwise is it really faith or just a good imagination? Continue to do those things that you know are right--prayer, scripture study, service to others, etc.--and once you are out of your valley and on top of the ridge, you can look back and see that you were led along the way. You may not be able to see it or feel it now, but trust God that He can and will lead you safely.

[AnglicanJohn]

Thanks Beefche.

Sorry for not being of the faith. I have long admired it though and wished for a long time I would have a calling for it. The reason for posting here was to try and get an LDS perspective on how you guys deal with these kind of issues, whether you even face the same kind of issues or not as the rest of the Christian world, especially surrounding the Holy Spirit and Suffering.

You guys really do seem to have it so much better, I was wondering if God was wanting me to step in another direction in terms of faith.

[martybess]

Thanks Beefche.

Sorry for not being of the faith. I have long admired it though and wished for a long time I would have a calling for it. The reason for posting here was to try and get an LDS perspective on how you guys deal with these kind of issues, whether you even face the same kind of issues or not as the rest of the Christian world, especially surrounding the Holy Spirit and Suffering.

You guys really do seem to have it so much better, I was wondering if God was wanting me to step in another direction in terms of faith.

John,

I hope I did not offend you. I did not know you knew much about us so I offered a shorten version on what we believe is a gift to us.

You do not need to apologize that you are not of our faith. You are a Christian and so we have common ground, we have a testimony together concerning the Bible and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Yes I must conquer with you John, hopefully without seeming boastful we as LDS folks do seem to have it together. We do have a tremendous support group. We have a living Prophet, the Priesthood and the Holy Ghost and additional scripture but we too have trials. We too have jobs that are really stressful and do pray for help and we fast for, pray for and seek answers in the scriptures. We too have to step out into the unknown, with faith that we will be blessed for trusting the Lord. Sometimes we don't receive that help for what seems a long time. Sometimes due to our lack of our trust, faith and putting forth an effort to do ALL we can first fall short. That is the learning process of life and it is hard. I can say one of the hardest decision I have every had to make in my married life of 32 years was when I was faced with the decision of a job change do to a illness that I have had to endured now for 14 years. I was once an active lively person, full of life...now some days it's all I can do to just make it home from a pain filled day on the job. 3 surgeries latter I have finally turned it over to the Lord. I have finally gotten over the resentment and the why me. Nothing has been harder but nothing has refined me more to seek for help from Heavenly Father. What might be the difference for us? Really when I think about that question, I guess I must say hopefully without seeming boastful is all that the LDS religion has. As you know we believe other religions have portions of the fullness and we believe we have been blessed with the fullness of Christianity as it was while the Savior walk the earth.

Pray, fast and read your scriptures and the Lord will make your burden easier to bear John. When you get up in the morning ask the Lord, "what would you have me do today?", listen. You will have a thought come to your mind and then do it. Have faith, look to lift others.

Here's a good example of some help to follow:

This has been my favorite story since a boy. I stumbled upon it in an old book that the father of our past beloved prophet wrote.

May you be blessed.

Edited November 2, 2010 by martybess

[rameumptom]

Trials come to all those who believe in Christ. Jesus told us to take up our cross and follow him. In this, we seek to endure well to the end. When Joseph Smith suffered in a dank, dark jail for months under trumped up charges, and he asked the Lord when the suffering would stop, the Lord responded:

Doctrine and Covenants 122

1 THE ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;

2 While the pure in heart, and the wise, and the noble, and the virtuous, shall seek counsel, and authority, and blessings constantly from under thy hand.

3 And thy people shall never be turned against thee by the testimony of traitors.

4 And although their influence shall cast thee into trouble, and into bars and walls, thou shalt be had in honor; and but for a small moment and thy voice shall be more terrible in the midst of thine enemies than the fierce lion, because of thy righteousness; and thy God shall stand by thee forever and ever.

5 If thou art called to pass through tribulation; if thou art in perils among false brethren; if thou art in perils among robbers; if thou art in perils by land or by sea;

6 If thou art accused with all manner of false accusations; if thine enemies fall upon thee; if they tear thee from the society of thy father and mother and brethren and sisters; and if with a drawn sword thine enemies tear thee from the bosom of thy wife, and of thine offspring, and thine elder son, although but six years of age, shall cling to thy garments, and shall say, My father, my father, why can’t you stay with us? O, my father, what are the men going to do with you? and if then he shall be thrust from thee by the sword, and thou be dragged to prison, and thine enemies prowl around thee like wolves for the blood of the lamb;

7 And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.

8 The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?

9 Therefore, hold on thy way, and the priesthood shall remain with thee; for their bounds are set, they cannot pass. Thy days are known, and thy years shall not be numbered less; therefore, fear not what man can do, for God shall be with you forever and ever.

[AnglicanJohn]

So is trial and tribulation used purely to teach, or should Christians expect years of turmoil and torment?

[martybess]

So is trial and tribulation used purely to teach, or should Christians expect years of turmoil and torment?

AnglicanJohn,

Do you read the Bible daily? I think your answer is found there.

What do we believe in our faith? To me well, it seems the answer to your question is yes, for others no, maybe not years.

Job suffered much but others are blessed with peace for what seems to us a lifetime but... each of us handle things differently.

The book of Job — The Guide to the Scriptures

"Although the book is about Job’s suffering, it does not entirely answer the question of why Job (or any other person) might suffer pain and the loss of his family and goods. The book clarifies that having afflictions does not necessarily mean that a person has sinned. The Lord may use affliction for experience, discipline, and instruction as well as for punishment (D&C 122).

The book of Job teaches that if a person has a correct knowledge of God and is living a life that is acceptable to God, he will be better able to endure the trials that come upon him. Job’s unfailing faith is characterized by such exclamations as, “Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him” (Job 13:15). Job is also mentioned in Ezekiel 14:14; James 5:11; Doctrine and Covenants 121:10."

Alma 36:27 — The Guide to the Scriptures

"And I have been supported under trials and troubles of every kind, yea, and in all manner of afflictions; yea, God has delivered me from prison, and from bonds, and from death; yea, and I do put my trust in him, and he will still deliver me."

Adversity — The Guide to the Scriptures

"Through adversity—trials, troubles, and distress—man can have many experiences that lead to spiritual growth and eternal progress by turning to the Lord."

What do you think life is all about? Do you think we are to become so saintly that we have peace all the time? Joesph Smith, Moses, Adam and so on all had trials, even the Savior "let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.." - Mat 26:39.

Can we have peace all the time? Yes some day, until then...seek for help from God and do all we can on our part.

[AnglicanJohn]

I read the Bible as much as I can. I get a bit cautious about the concept of suffering. There is suffering for sufferings sake and suffering for your belief, or righteous suffering.

I haven't worked out if there is a difference between the two and Im still going.

I know Proverbs 22:3, KJV A prudent [man] foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.

To me that says you shouldn't put yourself in danger, you shouldn't suffer needlessly.

But of course I know that the Lord can use bad times to educate, James 1 speaks of this, NIV "Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him."

I know I should be grateful that there will be good times afterwards, but at the moment, I don't know what God wants me to do, for all I know he could be telling me to get out. But I do know Im struggling to cope.

I don't mind suffering, but it would be nice to have some respite every now and again.

But I will keep turning to God, I will keep asking for help, I will keep reading the Bible, and while I don't get it right all the time, I will keep asking and I will never turn away from him.

John

[rameumptom]

Suffering is an important component in our developing righteousness. Paul taught that even Christ learned how to succor us through his trials and tribulations.

We learn compassion, selflessness, faith, patience, hope, and many other Christ-like attributes through our own trials. However, we see that throughout the many trials we see, the Lord can be there to give us strength through these trials. But it is usually after the trial of our faith that we receive the greater blessings of God.

[FunkyTown]

Before I talk, I'd like us to turn to the scriptures on this. Specifically: 1 Kings: 11-12:

And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake

And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

The Holy Spirit is not the voice in the hurricane. It's not the voice of a landslide, or an earthquake. It's not even the voice of a roaring fire.

To hear it, you have to be still spiritually. You have to try not to let your own desires and dislikes, wants and fears to interfere. In the midst of trials, He can speak to us, but we sometimes find it difficult to hear.

We've all been there.

When we turn our gaze to God, we can feel and know the Holy Spirit. When we turn to the things of the world, we listen for the hurricane and we don't hear the loving whispers of the spirit.

I want to thank you. Just writing this has reminded me of something I had let myself forget: That we have to turn our gaze to God to see Him. When we concentrate on the world, it's too easy to miss the promptings given to us.

Hello LDS Friends,

Unfortunately I think I have inadvertently broken one of the site rules by signing up with a new profile. I have done this to keep some things private and I hope you understand when you read my post.

Last year I was confirmed into the Anglican faith and the experience has been amazing for me.

However this year has been a struggle. Anything that could go wrong did go wrong. My mood has faltered and I still fail to hear the holy spirit guiding me and directing me. I feel pretty lousy at the moment with everything on top of me, I don't know which way to turn.

I also have problems at work, not of my own making, just various problems, made worse by a manager who is inconsistent in his approach that you don't know whether you're coming or going. I don't feel like staying, but my career is ruined where I work and people around me tell me how stupid it is to leave work without something else to go to, especially in this economic climate.

I come to various passages in the Bible talking about the benefit of work, how being happy at work is a gift from good, and how a prudent man sees danger and seeks refuge. Is it stupid to stay in a job that is killing you, or is it stupid to leave knowing you will have no income.

I also believe that my job is detrimental to my faith in that when I get home, Im so mentally exhausted, I don't have time for a lot except to unwind.

It worries me that I still cannot hear the still small voice guiding me and telling me what to do, stay and learn, or trust in God and quit.

This brings me to the purpose of the post and honest question to those of the LDS faith.

I know the LDS seem to have a very secure relationship with the holy spirit. Im not doubting God, or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit in any way, just my ability to hear. Im scared that I feel nothing after being confirmed in a non-LDS faith. For all I know, this could be normal. For LDs, what does the Holy Spirit do to you? Can you discern him quite easily? Does he guide 100%? Does he maintain you and keep you happy?

In terms of bad, abusive situation where no amount of assertiveness or love will help, do the LDS still follow a love your enemy approach and suffer torment for it? Or do you see danger, perhaps an uncompromising and unwilling spirit and do you get out of the situation? What does the Holy Spirit tell you to do in these situations?

I would love to know your thoughts.

John

[martybess]

I know I should be grateful that there will be good times afterwards, but at the moment, I don't know what God wants me to do, for all I know he could be telling me to get out. But I do know Im struggling to cope.

Yes this is hard, do you stay, do you leave.

I think John we a members believe that we must do all we can to be in tune with the spirit. Did you watch the youtube video with the elderly gentlemen working on the old radio? This is what we must all do. Rid our lives of distractions, listen for the still small voice and then follow. Sometimes the follow is the hardest. Sometimes we know the answer but say: "no, no that's just my mixed up thoughts and confusion.

You may be right maybe H.F. is saying it’s time to move on. I don’t know your work habits. How long you have been there, what you do, if you get along with others well, if you get frustrated easy and so on.

I know a guy who has not been able to keep a job for more than a few months at a time. He’s unreliable and has no self discipline and so he just quits or gets fired. He’s still lives at home and can’t seem to get it together. H.F. is not telling him to move on. H.F. is telling him to get it together. On the other hand I know ppl who will stick with something forever even though better jobs have come their way, thus not excelling as they possibly could. It sounds like I’m judging and maybe in a way I might be but really I’m just trying to help them. (It’s my calling in my ward). So without knowing what really is going on I can only tell you what I might do. If I though H.F. was telling me to move on, I know he would not tell me that (probably) unless I had another job opportunity. It’s just logic to me.

You may have done all this but I would probably first look to see how I’m viewing my situation. How I deal with others. Why they might be treating me so. Why I view them treating me so. If I’m kidding myself and really I’m living a double life. Sinning and digging my own pit during the week with riotous living and then going to church on Sunday. (Allot of times this is the case for me). I might talk to my boss’s boss if it were unbearable, unfair and I had spent all possibilities on my part. If I get fired, then there you go the answer. Why the answer? Well I had done all I could on my part, felt I was following the promptings and come what may had faith and did what I felt H.F. was saying was ok. (But remember to H.F. there could be more the one right way to go) and still in the end be ok.

So I guess really to answer your original question. Yes we all have trials but... we bring many upon ourselves and sometimes it's just life. No one has peace all the time that I know.

-Marty

[rameumptom]

Sometimes, God just wants us to "be still and know that I am God." Sometimes there isn't anything we personally can do, but to quietly endure and develop our faith and hope that Christ will deliver us when it is time to do so.