Guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I like Beck and I'm Mormon. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Dang Saint Michael I was going to watch that movie. Million Dollar Baby. Now I know the story. I have been an LDS adult for 40 years and have always heard about being prepared and that we should be debt free, have a years supply etc. that whole time. I have been around investments for 30 years and remember the big push, not from LDS, to own gold as a hedge against inflation. Those who bought gold in 1980, when we had interest rates for mortgages of 13% and a Certificate of Deposit for 18% and a roaring stock market for the next 30 years did very poor in gold. Personally I don't believe that gold will be the great bartering tool in hard times. No one will want a few shavings of gold in exchange for services. They will want fuel and food. Sorry I got way off track but in response to another post in this thread. Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yeah, and we all know that no liberal talking head ever acts like that. Right? Actually I took his "all of them" to be inclusive of talking heads in general, left and right. I could be wrong though. I think it happened once before back in 92. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Dang Saint Michael I was going to watch that movie. Million Dollar Baby. Now I know the story.I have been an LDS adult for 40 years and have always heard about being prepared and that we should be debt free, have a years supply etc. that whole time. I have been around investments for 30 years and remember the big push, not from LDS, to own gold as a hedge against inflation. Those who bought gold in 1980, when we had interest rates for mortgages of 13% and a Certificate of Deposit for 18% and a roaring stock market for the next 30 years did very poor in gold. Personally I don't believe that gold will be the great bartering tool in hard times. No one will want a few shavings of gold in exchange for services. They will want fuel and food.Sorry I got way off track but in response to another post in this thread.Ben RainesBen, you don't invest in gold so you can exchange gold shavings for food... you invest in gold to insulate yourself from currency fluctuations/inflation. Of course, if the stock market is roaring, you don't want to put your money in gold - you want to put your money on the rising currency value. If the currency value is depreciating like the past 2 years, you want to put your money in gold and insulate your money from devaluation. It's the same concept as currency investing - buying certain currencies that are experiencing a change in valuation. Basically, investing in gold pretty much points out that you have no confidence in your currency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintmichaeldefendthem1 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yes, it was Dave Ramsey that turned me off of gold as a good investment. He points out that everytime in history where economies collapsed and currency became worthless, a bartering system replaced it. Gold, or any other currency is worthless in this environment when clean water, gasoline, tents, blankets, guns and ammo find an immediate market (as Ben was pointing out). Everyone, mark my words. In ten years or less, economists will be singing lamentations about the "gold bubble" and all the people that got suckered into it and lost their fortunes. Like any other commodity, what goes up must come down...screaming and plummeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yeah, and we all know that no liberal talking head ever acts like that. Right? Actually I took his "all of them" to be inclusive of talking heads in general, left and right. I could be wrong though. I think it happened once before back in 92.Yeah, I'm pretty sure that I called them all clowns, and singled out Beck as the one that makes the art out of the tenuous assumptions thing. I'll openly admit they all do it, which is why I don't take any of them seriously.Jon Stewart, on the other hand.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yeah, and we all know that no liberal talking head ever acts like that. Right? Kind of like the young Congressman who recently claimed the Republicans are using Goebbel's Nazi tactics?Yep, there's lots of brainless statements being made on both sides.I don't have to agree with a person to think they are at least thinking something through as best he/she can. But I can often see when people are over-reaching on their conclusions, or are guided by a different set of beliefs than I am.For example, if a person supports health care reform, but refuses to include tort reform, then I know there are some partially hidden agendas included. The same goes if that same person refused to include individual protections/guarantees from insurance companies' excesses. Their beliefs only go so far as their lobbyists allow them.I would say I agree with Glenn Beck at least 1/2 the time. Probably more. He can be inspiring, as he was at his rally, which was not political. I'm convinced he is as worthy of his temple recommend as I am of mine.That said, I do not believe in making anyone my guru. I consider the things people state, consider the facts, and make my own decisions regarding it. There are times when Beck has made some good calls (such as with getting a self-declared communist on Obama's staff fired). There are other times when he's been over the top. I personally like Teddy Roosevelt, even if he was too progressive for Beck - I totally agree with TR's trust busting, for example.That said, I think our federal government IS too big and cumbersome, and it will collapse in on itself, if we do not shrink it. Financial gravity alone will bring it down, as we keep spending more than we take in. Given we did not elect enough moderates and conservatives this time to really make a big difference in shrinking government, I think Americans are still in the mode of wanting to shrink government, as long as it does not affect their personal entitlements.Our education system sucks, ranking 25th in the industrial world. We're not graduating 1/4 of our high school students, meaning a huge poverty hole we keep digging. Americans are too stupid and soft to realize they are passively destroying their own country. Sadly, history shows that when nations collapse in on themselves, they often end up having a chaotic revolution that begins with mass killings and kangaroo courts, and end up in dictatorship (a la French Revolution). We can only hope to have a softer landing, as the Russians had in the early 1990s after the Soviet collapse.But given the radicals on both the far right and left in this nation, I'm not sure we can accomplish that. If Glenn Beck can encourage people to get out of debt, get food storage, and seek to return our nation back to its founding principles, then good for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yes, it was Dave Ramsey that turned me off of gold as a good investment. He points out that everytime in history where economies collapsed and currency became worthless, a bartering system replaced it. Gold, or any other currency is worthless in this environment when clean water, gasoline, tents, blankets, guns and ammo find an immediate market (as Ben was pointing out). Everyone, mark my words. In ten years or less, economists will be singing lamentations about the "gold bubble" and all the people that got suckered into it and lost their fortunes. Like any other commodity, what goes up must come down...screaming and plummeting.There's nothing wrong with owning gold and other precious metals, as long as you do not put all your eggs into one basket. It is just one more place to invest. And with everything, it should occur AFTER you are out of debt, have your food storage, and have diversified your portfolio.When/if the economy collapses, gold will not be the only thing without value. The American dollar (savings accounts, money market), stocks, and bonds will be rather devalued as well. As it is, silver or copper may actually be better metals to own, as they are used in a lot of industries. Gold is so rare it is not used much outside of jewelry and maintaining currency values. Still, it has retained value rather decently over the years, not dipping below $300 an ounce for a very long time, even when economies were bad.That said, if economies sink, then salt and sugar will be worth a whole lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yes, it was Dave Ramsey that turned me off of gold as a good investment. He points out that everytime in history where economies collapsed and currency became worthless, a bartering system replaced it. Gold, or any other currency is worthless in this environment when clean water, gasoline, tents, blankets, guns and ammo find an immediate market (as Ben was pointing out).Wow - that's the first time I've seen Dave Ramsey be as wrong as possible before. Yeah, a bartering system shows up when currency becomes worthless - but that barter system pretty much always uses gold and silver as a medium of exchange. When Argentina's economy collapsed, gold was indeed a big part of the black market. The only problem was that no matter what gold you had, it was valued as junk gold because nobody had a way of determining it's purity. Also, as I sat there looking at the hundred-billion-dollar Zimbabwe note I bought off ebay for five bucks, I read a news article about how you could buy a loaf of bread for a quarter-gram of gold there (it came to about ten USD after doing the conversion). I'm a fan of Dave Ramsey, but dang - when he gets something wrong, he doesn't do it halfway.LM(doesn't own any gold) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintmichaeldefendthem1 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 YouTube - Dave Ramsey on GoldI think Ramsey makes a sound argument for what a lousy investment gold is and it becomes even more worthless when the economy is no longer currency based. Gold, like any currency, is a faith based commodity. In times when faith is in short supply, people would rather have a gas powered generator than a bucket full of gold. Gold is only valuable to someone if they think they can get someone else to think it's valuable too. This doesn't happen during a lapsed economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) Thanks - good link.Yep - dang - there it is, right around 2:00 into the video: "In a failed economy, no time, not once, since the Roman Empire, in a failed economy, has gold been used in a medium of exchange." I've never seen anyone I've liked and respected so much, be so completely and totally wrong about something. I mean, I'm just some not-particularly-smart-guy who keeps abreast of current events. And even I know that gold was a medium of exchange in Argentina in the '90's, it's a medium of exchange in Zimbabwe today. Dave then gives the example of the immediate aftermath of hurricane Katrina. Maybe he hasn't done much thinking about the nature of a short-term local disaster, and when a nation's economy collapses, because they're not the same thing. In the aftermath of a disaster, there is no economy in the impacted areas. In the aftermath of an economic collapse, people still go to work and have jobs and lives and goals and dreams - and yes indeed gold passes as a medium of exchange. Now, I understand he was trying to shut down the conspiracy theorist who wrote him, and beat the notion out of his head that gold will save him. Maybe that made Dave speak in absolutes he wouldn't use after thinking a little bit. Maybe he's using a different definition of 'medium of exchange' than I am, but it doesn't sound like it. Everything else he says I agree with, especially about how stuff only has value if people place value on it. Here's a brief ditty from someone living through the Argentinian collapse:Everyone wants to buy gold! “I buy gold. Pay cash” signs are everywhere, even on TV! I can’t believe I’m that silly! [...]No one pays for the true value of the stuff, so big WARNING! Sign on people that are buying gold coins. Since it is impossible to determine the true mineral percentage of gold, small shops and dealers will pay for it as regular jewelry gold. What I would do if I were you: Besides gold coins, buy a lot of small gold rings and other jewelry. They should be less expensive than gold coins, and if the SHTF bad, you’ll not be loosing money, selling premium quality gold coins for the price of junk gold. If I could travel back in time, I’d buy a small bag worth of gold rings. Small time thieves will snatch gold chains right out of your neck and sell them at these small dealers found everywhere. This is VERY common at train stations, subways and other crowded areas. Edited January 21, 2011 by Loudmouth_Mormon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Yes, it was Dave Ramsey that turned me off of gold as a good investment. He points out that everytime in history where economies collapsed and currency became worthless, a bartering system replaced it. Gold, or any other currency is worthless in this environment when clean water, gasoline, tents, blankets, guns and ammo find an immediate market (as Ben was pointing out). Everyone, mark my words. In ten years or less, economists will be singing lamentations about the "gold bubble" and all the people that got suckered into it and lost their fortunes. Like any other commodity, what goes up must come down...screaming and plummeting.And if anyone pays attention, they would hear Glenn Beck telling them that gold is not the right investment idea for everyone. He insists that you investigate as to whether it is right for you, and if you choose to buy gold, to then he recommends going through a certain company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintmichaeldefendthem1 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 And if anyone pays attention, they would hear Glenn Beck telling them that gold is not the right investment idea for everyone. He insists that you investigate as to whether it is right for you, and if you choose to buy gold, to then he recommends going through a certain company.And therefore maintains his integrity. Glenn buys gold for his family, but leaves his audience free to make their own choice. Contrary to what some say, he's not trying to lead a cult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areyoutrueblue Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Glenn Beck is irresponsible for talking violence and "getting your gun" along with all the other right-wing talk-show hosts that do the same thing. Whatever serendipitous instances that happened to convince him to join the Mormon church I'm not sure are related to the crazy things he says on his talk show, and the less he talks that stuff the less worse himself and Mormonism looks. Frankly I don't think this man is ready for Mormonism or any other religion because he incorporates the beliefs into his crazy-talk and he's not a well-balanced man mentally. He needs a psychiatrist, not a minister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintmichaeldefendthem1 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Really? When did Beck ever call for violence or tell his listeners to get their guns ready? What "crazy" things is he saying? It seems every criticism on this thread I've seen of Beck is based on ignorance of the things he actually says and promotes on his show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipplecutBuddha Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 just my little bit here, but Beck never claimed to represent the LDS Church. He only said he was a member of the LDS Church. The OP was "Does he represent your faith?" or something like that, and the answer is a rather clear --no--. Not all Mormons are Donnie and Marie either, nor are we all Harry Reid. We are Americans. We are just as varied as the rest of the nation is. Can that possibly mean there are other deeply spiritual men out there who are unafraid to display their faith to the world....that aren't LDS? Well, of course there are...should we shoot arrows at them too? Just because he's on television making money, he's not to be trusted? What about all the charitable work Hollywood stars support? Why trust them? Or should we just not trust anybody who happens to be successful at all...CEO's....Doctors....Lawyers....Dealership owners....Must I go on? Wasn't there something in the Bible somewhere about not judging with unrighteous judgement? You don't have to like him, trust him, or even listen to him. But really...getting down on a guy just because he's a successful LDS TV personality? The exaple of Olbermann is perfect. I know nothing about him beyond his recently ended television show, and I strongly objected to the tenor of his presentation. I'm sure he's a nice enough guy, with true friends, and a great talent at something beyond television. Will I attack him? Never....He and I will both have to answer the same questions come Judgement Day, and for that reason I prefer to just ignore his political statements. I doubt any of those will be on the final.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipplecutBuddha Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Glenn Beck is irresponsible for talking violence and "getting your gun" along with all the other right-wing talk-show hosts that do the same thing. Whatever serendipitous instances that happened to convince him to join the Mormon church I'm not sure are related to the crazy things he says on his talk show, and the less he talks that stuff the less worse himself and Mormonism looks. Frankly I don't think this man is ready for Mormonism or any other religion because he incorporates the beliefs into his crazy-talk and he's not a well-balanced man mentally. He needs a psychiatrist, not a minister.*sigh* Okay...I only do this once.--post a link showing Glenn Beck supporting violence or gun crimes of any kind, in any way whatsoever, in any of his books or during any of his shows.--specific examples please....no "He does it all the time!!!!" kind of stuff that simply re-states what you've already said.The rest of your post is too strongly emotional to respond to here. While I don't mind that you disagree with him, your statements are too far beyond the line to be even close to reasonable. These are the kinds of posts that close threads which, if I were to hazard a guess, is your intent. Considering this is only your fourth post...welcome to the site :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyRudick Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I like him.Me too:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Glenn Beck is irresponsible for talking violence and "getting your gun" along with all the other right-wing talk-show hosts that do the same thing. Whatever serendipitous instances that happened to convince him to join the Mormon church I'm not sure are related to the crazy things he says on his talk show, and the less he talks that stuff the less worse himself and Mormonism looks. Frankly I don't think this man is ready for Mormonism or any other religion because he incorporates the beliefs into his crazy-talk and he's not a well-balanced man mentally. He needs a psychiatrist, not a minister.I can't stand Beck, but even I will say this is absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prospectmom Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 He encourages the storing of food and supplies, a practice which I understand to be common among Mormons, Actually for a long time now the US Government has encouraged preparedness for every on. In every emergency preparedness manual it is encouraged to have a car kit, have emergency rations in your home and have an escape kit ready if you have to abandon your home. I think food storage and preparedness are not just a Mormon thing any more. I can like Glen Beck without always agreeing with every thing he says. I like to watch him sometimes. I appreciate his passion and always learn something new when I take the time to listen to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintmichaeldefendthem1 Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 , Actually for a long time now the US Government has encouraged preparedness for every on. In every emergency preparedness manual it is encouraged to have a car kit, have emergency rations in your home and have an escape kit ready if you have to abandon your home. I think food storage and preparedness are not just a Mormon thing any more. I can like Glen Beck without always agreeing with every thing he says. I like to watch him sometimes. I appreciate his passion and always learn something new when I take the time to listen to him.I can appreciate the distinction you're drawing here. I think that general advice is generally ignored, but advice that is embedded in a distinct culture, such as the LDS, is far more effective. Mormons live a life of preparation because that's what their faith teaches. Though I'm not Mormon, I took steps to be better prepared because Glenn Beck suggested so, demonstrating my greater faith in Glenn Beck than in our government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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