Seeking advice/opinions

[DotDotCurve]

First off i'd like to say Hey :)

This will probably be a long post, so I hope you manage to read it all.

I currently live in Scotland. I have been planning on moving to America in the next three or so years (I am seventeen right now).

I have looked at all kind of places, from the St. Louis to California to New Hampshire, but I have fell in love with Idaho/Utah. A certain family on youtube who allowed me to see Utah and Idaho every day for the last two years has had a decent impact on this decision.

There are four places I have narrowed it down to (at the moment), which are Boise, ID... Idaho Falls, ID... Pocatello, ID and Salt Lake City, UT.

I have heard that these cities are primarily filled with LDS. Both in the city and the suburbs. Which I have no problem with, as although I am a Weak Agnostic (also called "soft," "open," "empirical," or "temporal agnostic"), I am very open-minded, if I was asked if I believe in God, I would say: "I don't know whether any deities exist or not, but maybe one day when there is evidence we can find something out.".

I would even be interested in learning more about LDS.

Now that I have explained myself, you may be thinking what the point of this post is?

I have one set-back. I have heard that other than small ear piercings, LDS are not big on Tattoos and Piercings.. I have/plans for twelve piercings (on my face, ears and in my mouth) plus a full tattoo sleeve (on my right arm) going down onto my hands and fingers (full covered arm from shoulder to mid-fingers) plus another tattoo on my left wrist (from my wrist to mid-way up my lower arm (below elbow)) which has dash's going across my wrist with the word Hospital under it and dash's going up my arm with the word Morgue next to it, yes it is a connotation of Suicide, not because I have or ever will contemplate it, I just saw the tattoo and loved it (I have never taken life seriously).

I have three questions on this basis:

1. If I moved to SLC or a LDS neighourhood, would I be shunned? Or treated as you would any other LDS or non LDS?

2. If I was to attend a meet or two (if anything to become more culturally knowledgable), would I be accepted or turned away?

3. What are LDS views on Tattoos and Piercings? I may have been mis-informed.

I hope you take this seriously, honest answers please, no matter how harsh.

Thanks for reading all of this :)

[Gwen]

what are your long term career plans?

as for the church yes piercings and tattoos are discouraged. there will be some members and non members alike that will react negatively to it and then there are those that won't care.

[DotDotCurve]

Career plans... I am a Piercer. Which explains my love for them. Would love to do tattoos as well, but I suck at drawing.

Ah, that's good that some people won't care about them as my worst fear is moving there and being ignored, etc as I am a very social person.

Out of the places I listed, could you give me an idea of which would be the best to live in? Community wise... if you know that is.

[Gwen]

i've never lived out there. i was going to suggest you consider the impact of your appearance on your long term career plans but i guess you have. lol

with those areas being so heavily lds populated will there be a market for you to make a living as a piercer there? there may be, i've not researched it but i would suggest you look into that before making a major move.

most women who want one simple ear piercing (like most lds women) won't go to your professional piercer/tattoo artists. they are more likely to go to someone in the mall (which is a little ironic now that i think about it, a professional is bound to be safer and gain better results than some 19 yr old with a short training on how to do it. lol)

i grew up around panama city, fl. it's a big spring break area, lot's of ppl that get impulse piercings and tattoos. my brother has a lot and would know a lot more about the business and what types of reactions ppl give to them. one thing he's learned is the more you keep in locations you can cover or change out the piercing for something less obvious the better received you are by more professional jobs. you need to consider your plan b career plan and will your look be compatible with that?

[FunkyTown]

Salt Lake City is only about 40% LDS, so you don't need to worry about that.

Tattoos are a personal choice. You'll be treated pretty much as you would anywhere else with those tattoos: Either invisible, judged as self-indulgently rebellious or judged as coolly rebellious.

The Punk ideal, which is/was an attempt to force others to question their preconceived notions that appearance is important was hijacked by several important groups, and which group you belong to will heavily influence how others perceive you - Not just SLC, but the world.

1) The Idealists - The Idealist movement are the ones who are informed, articulate and passionate. Often politically active, they often choose 'Fringe' politics as answers. If you can rant with the best of them, you're an idealist.

If you're an Idealist, you'll probably raise a few eyebrows. Your intelligence and daring nature will bring people around, however.

2) The Iconoclasts - If you curse every other word and are ready to pick a verbal and/or physical fight at the drop of a hat, regardless of if the odds are against you, you're an iconoclast.

People will hate you, but since that's kind of what you're going for if you're an Iconoclast, then good on you!

3) The I-wanna-do-it-toos - If you think you're an Idealist who pushes Italian-style Fascism but don't know who Giovanni Gentile is, you're an I-wanna-do-it-too. If you're an Iconoclast who's never gotten a broken jaw or landed in jail, you're an I-wanna-do-it-too.

If, on the other hand, you're getting the tattoos not as a statement, but as a fashion accessory, I probably wouldn't get them. When you're in your 30s, you'll regret it unless you have a very, extremely strong sense of self.

I wouldn't have listened to those words when I was in high school, though, so if you do get them, cheers.

[DotDotCurve]

Such an obvious thing I missed... are there any Piercing shops out there. So obvious, but it sliupped my mind, thanks.

Don't even get me started on piercing guns at the malls. You might as well use rusted barbed-wire. If only the parents knew what potential physical (both inner and outer) damage they are doing to their children by going to the mall, they would be appauled.

Do you have any knowledge of why they wouldn't go to a professional shop?

As for my plan B career choice, I already have enough saved up to live happily and comfortably for as long as I need. Only used in emergencies. I am one of those people who live for the moment, I don't have back-up plan. If push came to shove and business didn't pick up out there, a move to California for a year or two would make me more than enough to come back to SLC.

Edit: Funkytown. I have been interest in Body Modification for nearly 5 years now. It isn't a fashion stament, more a way of life. I am not trying to be cool or rebellious (since my family are fine with them). I find they look beautiful, which is why I get them.

Edited January 19, 2011 by DotDotCurve

[FunkyTown]

Edit: Funkytown. I have been interest in Body Modification for nearly 5 years now. It isn't a fashion stament, more a way of life. I am not trying to be cool or rebellious (since my family are fine with them). I find they look beautiful, which is why I get them.

Now this, I find interesting. A friend of mine who's in to body modification does it for a few reasons.

The pain of piercings focus her, and the reminder of the pain, which she called 'Delicious' focuses her. She gets a feeling of control out of it, since she decides what she wants to do with her body.

If I can submit a question: If it's just that you think they're beautiful, why not get simple external 'Fakes' instead of actual piercings? There are a plethora of studs, rings and such that appear to be piercings but aren't and don't harm your body in any way.

I think you'll agree there's more to it than simply looking beautiful. I don't think I know anybody who was in to the culture who, when given the option for the external add-on and the actual piercing, went for the fake. If that's the case, if it goes beyond simply being beautiful, knowing what the allure is is an important part of knowing who you are and taking control.

[DotDotCurve]

I like the way your friend thinks of it. I have never thought of it that way, but it makes a lot of sense. Since I both get pierced and pierce people, there is something about modifying both myself and other peoples bodies that feels so good.

[Backroads]

I grew up in Ogden, Utah, so I'm familiar with Salt Lake (by the way, in Ogden, you could totally get away with piercings and tattoos and I imagine Salt Lake is similar). What I've noticed with Utah is you either have people that completely freak out about what your style is or rebel and take that same style.

1. If I moved to SLC or a LDS neighourhood, would I be shunned? Or treated as you would any other LDS or non LDS?

I think Utah is becoming diverse enough that I doubt you would be shunned.

2. If I was to attend a meet or two (if anything to become more culturally knowledgable), would I be accepted or turned away?

Hopefully accepted. I also suspect that if anyone in a meeting tried to turn you away, there would be other members who would berate them for doing so. That being said, there are a lot of jerk Mormons in Utah. My advice is to not judge all Utah Mormons by some of them.

3. What are LDS views on Tattoos and Piercings? I may have been mis-informed.

Technically, there is no all-or-nothing policy to tattoos and piercings. One can certainly do temple work, be baptized, etc, while sporting tattoos and piercings. They will not get you kicked out of the church in any way, shape, or form. However, as a sense of modesty and respect for the body, it is discouraged. I know active Mormons with piercings and tattoos, and I've always had a thing for piercings myself.

[DotDotCurve]

Backroads... thanks so much, that takes a load off of my mind.

[Gwen]

why someone wouldn't go to a professional piercer is an individual choice. i can tell you why i didn't and why i might do it differently now. lol

i was a teen when i got my ears pierced and was an active typical lds girl. i followed the rules and taking care of my body and looking "neat" by our definition of it was important to me. professional piercing/tattoo places have a stigma about them. for someone with a "sheltered" life they are dirty and scary. i didn't want to look like the person doing the work, i just wanted one simple earring. all emotional not logical or researched thoughts. you also hear stories about the bad parlors that are dirty, that do work for ppl with something contagious and you end up with it. not worth the risk. and to be seen going in or coming out of a place like that.... no way.

since my brother has gotten his we've talked more about it and i know a bit more, though not much more. there are still the dirty places, you have to do your research but the clean ones are very much professional. my brother visited several places, got to know the artist and watched him work on multiple ppl before getting his done. he says anyone that gets them on an impulse and doesn't know the artist is asking to catch something. lol i don't know what i'll do when my girls think they want their ears pierced but i won't just walk up to any mall store. i'll probably have more than one conversation with my brother about it before deciding where to go. the biggest issue i have with mall ppl came after i saw a mother getting her new born baby's ears pierced at one and the girl doing it didn't look to be but 17 herself, the baby jumped at the noise of the gun and moved ripping the earring through the ear lobe. there was a lot of screaming, from the baby, the mother and the girl doing the piercing and a lot of blood. that's when the obvious hit me, these places don't have the proper training.

i'm sure there are professional places out there, you just need to do the research and find out exactly what the market is. i would also suggest if you want to branch out of the very specific market (enthusiasts) and reach into the market of more "clean cut" folks that just want something small then you need to look that part. something with a clean store front, some jewelry sales or something (mall looking but professional lol). have a more toned down employee to handle those customers, then you can have the enthusiasts stuff attached to it, in an attached side shop or to the back. yes some would say "but is that hiding who i am?" or "is that being someone i'm not for others?". you can look at it that way and complain or you can see it as exactly what you will need to do, attracting to the customer market you are trying to reach. if that is a market you want to reach.

[DotDotCurve]

If you won't be looked down on for going to a professional piercer, I beg of you, please do not take you girl to a mall. People say piercing parlours may be dirty, which any decent one won't, they sterilized the equipment in front of you, and open the a brand new needle in front of you as well... the gun they use at the mall cannot be sterilized. I have majored in Blood-born Pathogens, I know what I am on about. You will be infinitely more likely to get an illness/diseae from the mall than a professional shop.

This is me being genuinely concerned for your girls health, not some attempt to help out the piercing industry.

I would love to cater for both clientele. I would love to make it more acceptable for LDS girl and men to go to a professional shop than a mall. I like your idea of two shops, a clean cut on for your casual customer and a more hardcore one next to it for your avid piercee. Thanks for the great idea, much appreciated.

[captmoroniRM]

1. If I moved to SLC or a LDS neighourhood, would I be shunned? Or treated as you would any other LDS or non LDS?

Depends on how truly Christ-like those around you are. Yes, appearances can and usually do lead to certain impressions of a person, but to first impressions aren't always true anyways.

2. If I was to attend a meet or two (if anything to become more culturally knowledgable), would I be accepted or turned away?

Anyone is welcome to visit Church meetings. You may come across some judgmental people who might be overly focused on your appearance, but it depends on how Christ-like the people are around you.

3. What are LDS views on Tattoos and Piercings? I may have been mis-informed.

We are encouraged to avoid Tattoos and any piercings other than one in each ear. For guys, they are encouraged to have no piercings.

[FunkyTown]

I have majored in Blood-born Pathogens, I know what I am on about.

You're a seventeen year old who majored in Blood-born Pathogens? That's impressive. I didn't realize sixth form(High school, for you Americans) had medical specializations available in Scotland.

And isn't the proper term 'Bloodborne Pathogens'?

[MichaelCraig]

When I first saw this on a bumper sticker I thought it was a little weird. I don't mean to hijack the thread but what are your feelings about it dotdotcurve and anyone else?

[Backroads]

I actually like it. I know Mormons aren't too big on the cross, but I can really appreciate that sticker.

[Guest DeborahC]

As a 58 year old woman with tattoos, I STRONGLY beg you to reconsider the tattoos.

You are 18 and making a decision that will affect you for the rest of your life.

The piercings can grow over.

The tattoos will be impossible to remove and I PROMISE you WILL regret it.

Tattoos fade with time, and your skin loses its elasticity around my age, after menopause, at which time those tattoos fade into a big blobby ugly blur that you will be forced to cover out of embarrassment.

What that means?

You will not get jobs you interview for.

People will reject you - and whether you care now or not, you WILL care later.

People will be frightened of you

People will be suspicious of you

You will lose many opportunities for advancement.

If you MUST get tattoos, please get them in a place that will not sag, bag, or stretch when you reach 40 and please get them in a place you can hide with clothing, when appropriate.

My 16 year old son insisted on a tattoo when he was living at home.

I made it a point not to say "no" unless it met certain criteria.. so I said "fine, BUT it must be above your shirt sleeve line."

He got a big old tattoo that read "INXS"

He is now 36 and thanks me on a regular basis.

He is SO embarrassed over that tattoo.

Please.. please.. reconsider...

I think those sleeves are SO unattractive and they are a FAD, which means in a few years they will no longer be in fashion and unlike a pair of platform shoes, will be impossible to discard!

Do Henna tattoos instead.. they disappear with time.

[DotDotCurve]

Funkytown, you can do courses over here. 11 day course in the subject and you get your qualification afterwards. Edit: In case you are thinking i'm still in school, I have been out of school and at college for a year and a half. Left a few months before I turned 16.

As a 58 year old woman with tattoos, I STRONGLY beg you to reconsider the tattoos.

You are 18 and making a decision that will affect you for the rest of your life.

The piercings can grow over.

The tattoos will be impossible to remove and I PROMISE you WILL regret it.

Tattoos fade with time, and your skin loses its elasticity around my age, after menopause, at which time those tattoos fade into a big blobby ugly blur that you will be forced to cover out of embarrassment. Touch ups. Also that adds to the charm of it, I love seeing old tattoos, natural wear and tear makes for a better effect.

What that means?

You will not get jobs you interview for. I am a piercier (soon to be, apprenticeship set up). Peircings are more than welcome.

People will reject you - and whether you care now or not, you WILL care later. All the people I associate with have both tattoos and piercings.

People will be frightened of you I don't care about the opinions of naive people.

People will be suspicious of you I don't care about the opinions of naive people.

You will lose many opportunities for advancement. Advancement in the piercings industry. Doubt having piercings will affect that.

If you MUST get tattoos, please get them in a place that will not sag, bag, or stretch when you reach 40 and please get them in a place you can hide with clothing, when appropriate.

My 16 year old son insisted on a tattoo when he was living at home.

I made it a point not to say "no" unless it met certain criteria.. so I said "fine, BUT it must be above your shirt sleeve line."

He got a big old tattoo that read "INXS"

He is now 36 and thanks me on a regular basis.

He is SO embarrassed over that tattoo.

Please.. please.. reconsider...

I think those sleeves are SO unattractive and they are a FAD, which means in a few years they will no longer be in fashion and unlike a pair of platform shoes, will be impossible to discard! Sleeves and other piercings and tattoos have been about (in popularity) for 40+ years. For the majority of people like me have them as a hobby, a passion... not as a silly fad.

Do Henna tattoos instead.. they disappear with time.

Edited January 20, 2011 by DotDotCurve

[hordak]

You're a seventeen year old who majored in Blood-born Pathogens? That's impressive. I didn't realize sixth form(High school, for you Americans) had medical specializations available in Scotland.

And isn't the proper term 'Bloodborne Pathogens'?

Is this thread making you think of the 3 billy goats gruff as well?

[MichaelCraig]

Hordak, I like you. 3 billy goat gruff came to mind from the get-go. HA!!! :0

[FunkyTown]

Hordak, I like you. 3 billy goat gruff came to mind from the get-go. HA!!! :0

I sheepishly have to admit to my suspicions being completely wrong, Michael.

OSHA offers a tattooing based Bloodborne Pathogens course one can complete in as little as 8 hours. 11 day courses are also available. It's commendable to take something like that and also plausible.

[Backroads]

Deborah, exactly what keeps me from actually getting a tattoo. I'll stick with piercings.

One of the weirdest things I've heard regarding tattoos was a suggestion that instead of garments, we have that symbols tattooed on our bodies... To me it defeats the entire purpose of free agency.

[Blackmarch]

First off i'd like to say Hey :)

This will probably be a long post, so I hope you manage to read it all.

I currently live in Scotland. I have been planning on moving to America in the next three or so years (I am seventeen right now).

I have looked at all kind of places, from the St. Louis to California to New Hampshire, but I have fell in love with Idaho/Utah. A certain family on youtube who allowed me to see Utah and Idaho every day for the last two years has had a decent impact on this decision.

There are four places I have narrowed it down to (at the moment), which are Boise, ID... Idaho Falls, ID... Pocatello, ID and Salt Lake City, UT.

I have heard that these cities are primarily filled with LDS. Both in the city and the suburbs. Which I have no problem with, as although I am a Weak Agnostic (also called "soft," "open," "empirical," or "temporal agnostic"), I am very open-minded, if I was asked if I believe in God, I would say: "I don't know whether any deities exist or not, but maybe one day when there is evidence we can find something out.".

I would even be interested in learning more about LDS.

Now that I have explained myself, you may be thinking what the point of this post is?

I have one set-back. I have heard that other than small ear piercings, LDS are not big on Tattoos and Piercings.. I have/plans for twelve piercings (on my face, ears and in my mouth) plus a full tattoo sleeve (on my right arm) going down onto my hands and fingers (full covered arm from shoulder to mid-fingers) plus another tattoo on my left wrist (from my wrist to mid-way up my lower arm (below elbow)) which has dash's going across my wrist with the word Hospital under it and dash's going up my arm with the word Morgue next to it, yes it is a connotation of Suicide, not because I have or ever will contemplate it, I just saw the tattoo and loved it (I have never taken life seriously).

I have three questions on this basis:

1. If I moved to SLC or a LDS neighourhood, would I be shunned? Or treated as you would any other LDS or non LDS?

2. If I was to attend a meet or two (if anything to become more culturally knowledgable), would I be accepted or turned away?

3. What are LDS views on Tattoos and Piercings? I may have been mis-informed.

I hope you take this seriously, honest answers please, no matter how harsh.

Thanks for reading all of this :)

Hi and welcome :)

1) You should not be shunned, almost since our church was founded our leaders have been trying to pound into our heads to be more open and inviting and loving to those around us. Reality is that many of us hate moving from our comfort centers or are afraid of how others would react were they to found out we're mormon, and so probably won't interact at first because of that, but then there are many who are at the other end of the spectrum who are very outgoing and very welcoming people who go out of their way for strangers...

and once you get LDS to open up a little I think you'll be begging for them to not invite you to so many activities and dinners.. maybe

As a whole, i've found lds people generally to be more accepting and inviting.

2) you should definitely be accepted into a meeting even if you looked like some tribal religious shaman from deep in africa (you'd probably get a few starees tho if that were the case). about the only things that will get you booted out of meeting is if youre trying to disrupt it. Altho since you're asking we do ask people to dress in a manner that is respectful to God if they can, but if you can't don't let that stop ya from visiting a service :)

3) we believe our bodies are are from God, and so peircing and tattooing is very strongly discouraged. We have been told by prophets not to do it. However that doesn't mean if you do it you're going to hell, or if you did before you came into the church that you'd have to get them removed or that you're going to hell. Mainly we avoid it out of respect for our bodies.

Personally i'd advise against getting permanent tattoos.. (while i a few who havent regretted it, the ones that do regret it are more numerous) If you really want a tattoo, have you tried that henna (i think thats how its spelled) stuff? it wears off after a few weeks to a month, but i know some people are allergic to it.

[hordak]

I sheepishly have to admit to my suspicions being completely wrong, Michael.

OSHA offers a tattooing based Bloodborne Pathogens course one can complete in as little as 8 hours. 11 day courses are also available. It's commendable to take something like that and also plausible.

Actually wanting to immigrate to one of the most conservative areas in the US with a unessential non conservative skill , is what put it in my mind.

From my understanding (and i'm no expert) it is a quite difficult process, most "slots" going to families or or those who get sponsored through skilled job E.G. Doctors, engineers and can prove they can support themselves financially here.

Piercer/tattoo artist would be a long shot from what i understand.

Of course it could just be the "follies" of youth.

[hordak]

Tattoos fade with time, and your skin loses its elasticity around my age, after menopause, at which time those tattoos fade into a big blobby ugly blur that you will be forced to cover out of embarrassment.

You know i never understood this "argument." Not to sound insensitive but if your body gets stretched out and sags to the point it makes the tattoo look bad, then the body part probably looks bad and most would want to hide it as well.

plus

old does not equal out of shape

the body is quite resilient actually