the aftermath of a confession.

[Guest saintish]

I see your confusion. As i said we have largely moved on, myself more so than my wife. In any case had justice been better served it wouldn't be an issue. It's kind of a mute point now I suppose.

[estradling75]

I see your confusion. As i said we have largely moved on, myself more so than my wife. In any case had justice been better served it wouldn't be an issue. It's kind of a mute point now I suppose.

Understood... There is a lot of things that suck about what happened in your story, and one would hope for better from church leaders. Sometime you just have to focus on you and yours being right with God and let him deal with the rest.

[Vort]

So are you of the opinion that there is no need for justice?

On the contrary, justice is indispensable -- in the long run. In mortality, justice is an elusive goal we always pursue but rarely catch. Our lot is to learn to live with the imperfect pursuit of justice, leaving ultimate justice in the hands of the great Judge.

[Ghawbrey]

Church leaders are just people. They may have more responsibilities but they are prone to the same mistakes as anyone else. They may actually be prone to more frequent and bigger mistakes than than others without the same level of responsibility as a matter of exposure. I have found that forgiving an injustice leads to a far better state of mind for me and my family than seeking some sort of undefined justice. When I see members stand on justice they generally become bitter and do themselves more harm than good.

[Guest saintish]

they are people but they should still be held accountable especially by their stake pres. but this was not the case. I'm not saying the church isn't true but i still feel that it is a shame what this stake pres. and high counselor did, it does nothing to advance the church.

[Ghawbrey]

Held accountable how? Have you figured out what kind of resolution would suit you. Nothing will be accomplished in seeking a pound of flesh. My wife was harassed by one of our Bishopric to the point of tears every time he found her in the hallways during class at our ward. She was a primary worker so there was a lot of hallway time in her calling. I had to stay with in eye sight of her to stop him which meant I was hanging in the hall most of the time. If I was around he left her alone. He finally moved away and we got over it. Do you want them publicly ostracized, excommunicated, or what?

[Guest saintish]

In a perfect world i think the High counselor should have been removed from the high council, but i would have settled for an apology or at least an acknowledgement of wrong doing.

[Dravin]

If I was around he left her alone. He finally moved away and we got over it. Do you want them publicly ostracized, excommunicated, or what?

That was what popped into my mind. The only way he'd know they were 'held accountable' would be for them to be told to apologize (and them following through, though nothing dictates the apology would be palatable from his perspective), or if they were released. I suppose he could conceivably get a letter back letting them know they'll discuss it with them, but if they get taken aside and chastised and told to do better next time he wouldn't be there to experience it.

Edit: Looks like I shouldn't have dawdled in replying, Saintish answered before I threw my two cents in.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Dravin

[Ghawbrey]

I still can't get around the fact that Christ has taught us to forgive these kinds of things. If we want justice then we will be held to justice and I don't want that. We had a saying when I was in the Army that went "We may not get what we want, and we may not get what we need, so long as we don't get what we deserve".

[slamjet]

Forgiveness is also a process. We're not going to be righteous overnight, and the Lord knows that. What he expects is for us to work at it, consistently. Forgiveness is the same way. It's not an overnight thing, it's something that happens over time as we work on ourselves, learn see the world around us from the Lords eyes and understand the priorities that we need to have in our personal life.

I've been in severe Ward situations where I've let it roll off my back. But that's because previous to this, I've had to, and learned to forgive in a big way, so it's not as big an issue for me. However, it's not the same for everyone so we need to be patient with those who are still learning and progressing. Keep in mind the parable of the mote and the beam.

[Guest saintish]

I still can't get around the fact that Christ has taught us to forgive these kinds of things.

Forgiveness and seeking justice are two different things, Christ did tell us how to handle these things and he didn't say "just let it role off your back"

"15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."

Mat. 18:15-17

and this is almost exactly what i did. I think we are confusing forgivness and justice. If you child is murdered you are required to forgive the murderer, that does not mean that you refuse to press charges or that they shouldnt be jailed.

[Ghawbrey]

This is Feelings not Murder.

[Guest saintish]

No this is a leader in the church with a sacred calling not keeping confidances and jepordizing the testimony of new members at the same time.

[Guest mysticmorini]

WOW! that is all I have to say just WOW! I know this is an old thread but it is an amazing story. I can't believe so many people in leadership could behave so badly. I also cant believe how some of the members of this site treated this person. As if he was the one with the problem. I'd say if i were a member of that stake I would have a hard time sustaining that Stake presidency or that highcounselor/ Institute Director.

Sounds like the Stake President was covering for the Institute Director so he wouldn't lose his Job. This is just one big, sad, Pathetic story.

[NoGreaterLove]

It is called forgiveness and it is one of the hardest lessons in life to learn. Until you and your wife forgive him and stop trying to get him disciplined and just accept you may never get an apology, you will have problems from Satan on this issue. It may cause the death of both of your testimonies. Let it go and work on forgiving him for his mistake.

Did not Christ forgive you and your wife for yours?

[Guest mysticmorini]

Have you read this whole thread? I think you totally missed Saintish's point. BTW I wouldn't expect a response from Saintish, I belive he requested his account be deactivated.