Your View Of Heaven

[Serg]

This I found in a work of Daniel H. Ludlow, " A companion for the Doctrine and Covenants", pp.649, when speaking of section 130, verse 2, it states : "A saint, who is in one in deed and in truth, does not look for an immaterial heaven, but he expects a heaven with lands, houses, cities, vegetation, rivers, and animals; with thrones, temples, palaces, kings, princes, priests, and angels; with food, raiment, musical instruments, etc.."

(Orson Pratt, MS 28:722)

Interesting, and amazing that we here have a prophetic fore-telling of the Lord of the Rings! Great inspitration!

Nah, seriously, i consider it a very nice thought, although I dont get the need for " houses" , that idea doesnt go with our (then) capacity of not needing any house, nor to sleep, or anything else. Well, What are your thoughts(serious) about "yonder" heavens?

Regards,

[matilda]

My thoughts;

I think we will find that we will need a house in heaven. Isn't a house a gathering place. A place where your family comes together which is what makes it a home. As a child likes to play house because that is what it sees it parents do, are we not the same within the real picture? Sure we don't remember but we still gather together as a family and extended family members if only for the holidays because of busy lifestyle. I have alway felt that is why we need our "mansion in the sky". We are always busy but we always go home, that is where love is and where it started.

Thanks for posting this. It got me excited for what we have to look forward too. I can't wait

[Serg]

So we are to understand that, while our Father "Elohim" was directing Jesus and many others while organizing this earth, in the middle of it he excused Himself because his aunt of another sphere had a celestial B.B.Q.?

Whoa! I cant wait for this!!!

(Truly, this is very unique theology)

[Traveler]

One of the great criticisms of traditional Christianity is that Christians spend their whole life on earth trying to either get to heaven or convince themselves they belong in heaven yet they have no concept of what heaven is or ought to be like. The interest of this thread kind of demonstrates this point.

Mostly I am convinced that most modern Christian’s view of heaven is more in line with the ancient pagan concept than what I believe Jesus attempted to model.

Living with my parents, brothers, sisters, wife and children is my view of heaven. The rest of you it is okay with me if you are there but to be honest – I have no desire to drag you there myself. :)

The Traveler

[shanstress70]

One of the great criticisms of traditional Christianity is that Christians spend their whole life on earth trying to either get to heaven or convince themselves they belong in heaven yet they have no concept of what heaven is or ought to be like. The interest of this thread kind of demonstrates this point.

Perhaps one of the reasons this thread didn't get a lot of traffic is because a lot of us weighted in on a similar subject in the 'Of Harps and Heresy' thread.

[ALatterDaySaint]

One of the great criticisms of traditional Christianity is that Christians spend their whole life on earth trying to either get to heaven or convince themselves they belong in heaven yet they have no concept of what heaven is or ought to be like. The interest of this thread kind of demonstrates this point.

Mostly I am convinced that most modern Christian’s view of heaven is more in line with the ancient pagan concept than what I believe Jesus attempted to model.

Living with my parents, brothers, sisters, wife and children is my view of heaven. The rest of you it is okay with me if you are there but to be honest – I have no desire to drag you there myself. :)

The Traveler

I agree with this thinking totally, but, with one other angle on it. We are ALL brothers and sisters as the litteral children of our Father in Heaven. Makes me want to drag a few others along with me.

[shanstress70]

Along those same lines (speaking of ALatterDaySaint), there are some friends that I would much rather spend eternity with than a lot of my family. Some of my family could give a #$%* that I even exist, sadly that includes my brother. OTOH, I have some friends that I love more than anything, who would do anything for me, and love me like I'm family.

[Christos]

I don't believe I have ever seen heaven, however, one night I prayed for a wiccan friend of mine.

That very night when I went to sleep I saw myself with him.

We walked up to some very very tall walls. We were let in, the gate was a single pearl (as in revelations). Once inside, the space was huge! It was fantastic. In the centre was a huge golden/red building. We walked in and inside there was a huge staircase and many fellow Christians. I took my friend through the building and across a bridge that was just out side the building. Across this bridge was a cottage like building and inside that was a wise man. I left my friend with the man and I walked back into the grand building.

The staircase was built of reddish rock, like marble but also shimmered like matt gold. The steps were gold and there were thousands of them, leading upwards in a constant spiral.

I climbed to the top of the staircase and there was a huge door, built of black iron like material and light was protruding from the seams. Then a voice said "enter" and the doors started to open, the light got brighter and brighter and it was then that I realised that is the throne room.

I woke up before I could even see what was inside.

I believe that I probably saw the New Jerusalem, however I don't want to boast because it could have just been a fantasy or a false vision.

Revelations 21

23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

I would like to quote the whole of Isaiah 24-26 but it would be far too long.

It talks about the destruction of the Earth and prophesises the New Jerusalem.

Isaiah 26

5For he bringeth down them that dwell on high; the lofty city, he layeth it low; he layeth it low, even to the ground; he bringeth it even to the dust.

6The foot shall tread it down, even the feet of the poor, and the steps of the needy.

7The way of the just is uprightness: thou, most upright, dost weigh the path of the just.

8Yea, in the way of thy judgments, O LORD, have we waited for thee; the desire of our soul is to thy name, and to the remembrance of thee.

[Serg]

(Maybe a little off topic):

One night, when I was at first converting to the Lord, I asked in prayer, for the forgiveness of my sins, I cried, and really felt this huge amount of weight on me. Then I started to feel more relaxed...

While I was sleeping i had a dream. I dreamed that the ward I was assisting had a social "activity", for members only. They told me that someone special was to come that night, and I was wondering.

When we were there chatting, then someone told me(us) "there he comes", and suddenly the person beside me said "is God". I was shoked...couldnt speak, I was very afraid...I tried to look the other way and went down the other side of the cultural room, but then among others, this man stared at me. The nicest of all feelings mixed with being afraid...and I stood still, he came slowly at me, he was a very happy man(but was not "smiling" at all), and he huged me...

His body and personal resemblance was that of Joseph Smith...(at least the picture the missonaries had shown me), but I knew it was NOT JS, but God Himself....

Peace I felt when I woke up....

Then, as rescently as last night, I was worried cause of some aspects of my life that I have changed because of Him, but the devil is trying me very hard, and I prayed again...and had a confused dream, but i remember seeing Joseph Smith saying "I have done it before, I know I can now", and then a second frase "from now on, again will I do it, i can".

It brings me peace, that the Lord may permitt that I dream of things that may not be very logical at all, but have a message...special one for me.

He loves me....

Speaking about heaven:

Do we(in the eternities) use our garments?

Moroni did'nt have them when he visited Joseph Smith. Why?

If we will not use them, then why have people who profess(presidents and leaders) that have had contact with the after life, said that people there "use" their garments?

Anyone has a position over clothes in eternity?

[Christos]

There are garments in Heaven.

Revelation 7:11-17 (K.J.V.)

11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

[Ray]

There are garments in Heaven.

Of course there are. Otherwise we would be running around naked.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Do we(in the eternities) use our garments?

Moroni did'nt have them when he visited Joseph Smith. Why?

I assume you mean the garments of the Holy Priesthood, and not just street clothes by the term "garments?"

I don't believe we'll have our exact garments in heaven that we have now. As this earth is a reflection and shadow of the realms of Light above, I believe our garments here represent something the exalted will wear in the Celestial Kingdom. Still, it's best to keep our garments clean and in tip-top shape...just in case. :)

[Christos]

<div class='quotemain'>

There are garments in Heaven.

Of course there are. Otherwise we would be running around naked.

I thought it was quite an indepth question on shame.

How we consider it to be socially acceptable to be clothed yet that form of acceptance will not be in heaven. It shall be in the end, as it was in the beginning.

Actually, this is something I've never thought about before. I suppose we might be naked in Heaven. The white robes could be figurative of our distinction from the sinners, how we "washed our clothes in the blood of the lamb."

(pre-fall)

K.J.V.

Genesis 2:25

And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

<div class='quotemain'>

There are garments in Heaven.

Of course there are. Otherwise we would be running around naked.

Is that a bad thing?

[ALatterDaySaint]

After very little thought on the subject I think that garments will serve a symbolic meaning of eternal covenants we've made with the Lord. Even the very act of covering up at all is Symbolic of modesty. There is nothing evil about the nude human body. Its our lusts and passions that corrupt when we allow it.

I think there will be garments and even garments of the Priesthood worn under and not because we wont be able to "bridle our passions" or keep pure thoughts but rather because the garments hold eternal and sacred meaning and thus will remain with us forever and be a thing of glory and honor.

[Christos]

I'm obviously not L.D.S. but I am not sure about the idea that the priestly robes will still be there in Heaven.

We are all sinners, regardless of our status in the church.

And each of us are first and foremost, the worst of all sinners, as sin cannot be measured.

There will be no need for Priests in the New Jerusalem, due to the simple reason that we shall all be perfect, incorruptible and incapable of sin.

We will not need a heirarchy because we will be in full communium with the Lord of Hosts, (Domine Deus Sabaoth).

[MaidservantX]

I'm obviously not L.D.S. but I am not sure about the idea that the priestly robes will still be there in Heaven.

We are all sinners, regardless of our status in the church.

And each of us are first and foremost, the worst of all sinners, as sin cannot be measured.

There will be no need for Priests in the New Jerusalem, due to the simple reason that we shall all be perfect, incorruptible and incapable of sin.

We will not need a heirarchy because we will be in full communium with the Lord of Hosts, (Domine Deus Sabaoth).

Well I think people's comments here on clothing, whether priestly or otherwise, are just thoughts for the purpose of this topic, Christos. As are my comments. We are not landing on doctrine, just picking it up to look at it from all sides perhaps.

Each man, in LDS, is considered a priest (if worthy and desirous and ordained), there is no one priest between Christ and the man. Bishops do serve in a judging capacity, to help guide a person, and to provide authority, but a bishop cannot provide reconciliation (?). Only Christ himself and our individual relationship to him -- which does include covenants (inc. the sacrament) and commandments.

You are right, that a person's particular office in a church does not make one more worthy, nor immune to sins and temptations and other imperfections. And all of us will continue to struggle with sin all or most of our life -- perhaps if we have done well enough, some of our innocence returns in our extreme old age?-- and other mortal tragedy because that is the nature of mortality. As well, we will gradually be free, EVEN IN mortality, from much of the worst sin and all else Satan uses to bind us, because Christ's Atonement works with us to make this possible -- in the present, not just the afterlife. We can receive this freedom as a gift -- now. The reconciliation can take place now, just as well as after death.

You are perfectly right -- and I love the way you say it -- that we will be perfect, free, sinless, reconciled in the eternities. No hierachy is needed -- IS EVER needed, even now -- for our communion with our Heavenly Father. And no hierachy would be needed for earthly covenants (will there be further covenants in eternity?). However, I view (the LDS view might be stated?) that the Priestliness that will be present in the eternities (robes or whathave you) is no longer a reconciliatory process, but being ourselves able to serve outward to others, our families in particular, with the power and love whose source is the Priesthood (of Christ).

[ALatterDaySaint]

<div class='quotemain'>

I'm obviously not L.D.S. but I am not sure about the idea that the priestly robes will still be there in Heaven.

We are all sinners, regardless of our status in the church.

And each of us are first and foremost, the worst of all sinners, as sin cannot be measured.

I dont agree with this. We are "first and foremost" the sons and daughters of Heavenly Father. And no matter our state or current condition we are His children whom He loved so much that He gave His Only Begotten for us. And when Jesus paid for our sins He didnt pay for the sins of humanity as a whole,like spreading peanut butter over bread, He paid for each of us individually and personally. When we do ordinances for the dead in the temple we dont just do the work at once for every name on the list, no, we go through one person at a time and each is given its own turn to have their work done. Same for the atonement. Christ delt with each of our sins and burdens and trials and sufferings seperatley, personally, and individually with compassion and unconditional love. So, back to my first comment, we are First and Foremost the children of God! The fact that we are all sinners is but a part in this grand Plan of Salvation which the Lord has made for our sake.

There will be no need for Priests in the New Jerusalem, due to the simple reason that we shall all be perfect, incorruptible and incapable of sin. Unable to sin? incapable of sin? This seems like we will have lost our agency to choose to me. I think a better way to say this is that Sin will be incapable of tempting us and evil will be powerless to make us stumble. We, however will never lose our ability to choose our actions, thoughts, and words.

We will not need a heirarchy because we will be in full communium with the Lord of Hosts, (Domine Deus Sabaoth).

To avoid seeming like I'm contending with you I will just say, "Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians"

You are perfectly right -- and I love the way you say it -- that we will be perfect, free, sinless, reconciled in the eternities. No hierachy is needed -- IS EVER needed, even now -- for our communion with our Heavenly Father. And no hierachy would be needed for earthly covenants (will there be further covenants in eternity?). However, I view (the LDS view might be stated?) that the Priestliness that will be present in the eternities (robes or whathave you) is no longer a reconciliatory process, but being ourselves able to serve outward to others, our families in particular, with the power and love whose source is the Priesthood (of Christ).

Again, on the matter of heirarchy, there will always be a need for it. Not as religion, not as business, but as family. The Patriarch is always the head, even in the eternities with sealed family units. The Father and the Mother co-rule with the Father as head. This is modled after Heavenly Father's own design. There will always be heirarchy but it will not be in place to keep order but will be in place out of reverence and adoration and humility and honor and glory.

Excellent thread by the way guys!!!

[Guest Monica]

Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads.

Exciting isnt it?

[Christos]

And each of us are first and foremost, the worst of all sinners, as sin cannot be measured.

This wasn't intended as a reference to our purpose, but rather to what we have become. Through the fall of man we have become sinful. Original sin doesn't come into it, we have chosen to sin ourselves.

due to the simple reason that we shall all be perfect, incorruptible and incapable of sin.

This isn't a meant to be taken as an attack on free will. Even the angels have free will. BUT they know who their master is and they would never transgress against him....however, it has happened and there is an example of what may happen.

I will ask this now.

When we are in the New Jerusalem, please, please, don't rebel!

Each man, in LDS, is considered a priest (if worthy and desirous and ordained), there is no one priest between Christ and the man. Bishops do serve in a judging capacity, to help guide a person, and to provide authority, but a bishop cannot provide reconciliation (?). Only Christ himself and our individual relationship to him -- which does include covenants (inc. the sacrament) and commandments.

That is also what a priest does in the Orthodox church. They are no higher than the congregation because of their knowledge of theology. Sometimes there may be a greater theologian in the congregation, but this is irrelevent. The Priest serves as a spiritual guide for the people and is also called to do special things that can only be done with Priesthood....like the Eucharist/Sacrament/Communium. (why so many names )

Can we please focus on what we have in common rather than disputing doctrinal differences, because there are many.

One of my favourite verses from the Epistles.

From the first letter of St Paul to the Corinthians.

K.J.V.

1 Corinthians 15:51-57

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Serg]

Exactly. While talking to my bishop abou it, one night, and we noticed that while Moroni had white ROBES he DID NOT have priestly garments under them. I though that our earthly garments are a shodow to the real "garments" of light. It makes no sense at all to have these exact garments, ALTHOUGH i believe that we WILL have some sort of priestly clothing(as well as the other "things" concerning the priesthood given in our endowments).