What do you think of this dating experience I had?

[LDSChristian]

Haha. You have a good point. I've been married for over 15 years and hormones STILL cause problems! AK!

Like we wanted to know lol.

[Iggy]

Usually refers to a marriage that is not monogamous.

Thank you, Soul but wanted to know LDSChristian's defination-

They date other people while being married.

This is something their Bishop knows about? Have they been disfellowshipped? Is this commonly known by the other members of your ward? Exactly what Stake are you in? I don't want to know what ward or branch you are in, just the Stake.

[Wingnut]

Exactly what Stake are you in? I don't want to know what ward or branch you are in, just the Stake.

Why?

[Guest JustAnotherGirl]

Like we wanted to know lol.

Ya, and I don't even want to know. :)

[Iggy]

Why?

Good grief can't all of you let the boy answer for himself???

WHY? Because after reading everything he has posted-(and I mean EVERYTHING) he comes across as a 12 or 13 year old - and one who is not very knowledgeable of LDS ways. Walk the walk, talk the talk. Nope he doesn't do it.

Plus HE seldom answers direct questions directly.

So lds.net members, please let him answer for himself. Undoubtedly he is going to say that I am rude. That he has the right to his opinions.

True you do, but so do I.

[LDSChristian]

Thank you, Soul but wanted to know LDSChristian's defination-

This is something their Bishop knows about? Have they been disfellowshipped? Is this commonly known by the other members of your ward? Exactly what Stake are you in? I don't want to know what ward or branch you are in, just the Stake.

No, most people don't know it. I've seen both people in the marriage out with other people of the opposite sex holding hands & kissing. And what business is it of yours as to what stake I'm in? I don't give stuff like that to people who put down others.

[LDSChristian]

Because after reading everything he has posted-(and I mean EVERYTHING) he comes across as a 12 or 13 year old - and one who is not very knowledgeable of LDS ways. Walk the walk, talk the talk. Nope he doesn't do it.

You couldn't be more wrong. The church and what it teaches is one of the things I know very much about. I come across as a 19 year old being able to show people up that are a little less than twice my age. When it comes to the church I do talk the talk.

[Wingnut]

Good grief can't all of you let the boy answer for himself???

WHY? Because after reading everything he has posted-(and I mean EVERYTHING) he comes across as a 12 or 13 year old - and one who is not very knowledgeable of LDS ways. Walk the walk, talk the talk. Nope he doesn't do it.

Plus HE seldom answers direct questions directly.

So lds.net members, please let him answer for himself. Undoubtedly he is going to say that I am rude. That he has the right to his opinions.

True you do, but so do I.

Simmer down. I'm just asking what reason you have to know what stake he's in. It's not relevant to you, nor is it in any way necessary. Plus, it's rude to ask personal information (such as location) of a stranger. And, as it turns out, I'm not the only one who thinks that:

No, most people don't know it. I've seen both people in the marriage out with other people of the opposite sex holding hands & kissing. And what business is it of yours as to what stake I'm in? I don't give stuff like that to people who put down others.

You couldn't be more wrong. The church and what it teaches is one of the things I know very much about. I come across as a 19 year old being able to show people up that are a little less than twice my age. When it comes to the church I do talk the talk.

You may think that you put yourself across at a 19-year-old or better, but truthfully, no one really can judge how they themselves come across. They have to rely on others for that information, based on the very nature of internet activity.

[Dravin]

You may think that you put yourself across at a 19-year-old or better, but truthfully, no one really can judge how they themselves come across. They have to rely on others for that information, based on the very nature of internet activity.

Another way to look at it is that 19 year olds from the perspective of many are not terribly mature, so saying you come across as a 19 year old may not be the high praise one may first think it is, but I suppose it is better than 12 or 13. If nothing else he has writing skills above most 12 and 13 year olds. Though if I was to peg an age based on nothing then how he comes across I'd probably say 16 or 17 honestly. Of course from the prospective of 27 the gap between 17 and 19 is rather small.

[rameumptom]

You couldn't be more wrong. The church and what it teaches is one of the things I know very much about. I come across as a 19 year old being able to show people up that are a little less than twice my age. When it comes to the church I do talk the talk.

Perhaps you mean: compared to other 19 year old kids you know a lot about the Church. I very much doubt you know very much about it compared to Volgadon, Pam, Palerider, me, or some others here on the list.

For example, can you tell me, without asking others, what are the keys of the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods? What is the difference between authority and power of the priesthood?

What is the difference between the Holy Ghost and the Gift of the Holy Ghost? When Jesus commanded us to be "perfect" what did he mean by it?

What do the scriptures mean by the terms "endless punishment" and "eternal punishment"?

Who goes to a disciplinary council with the bishop, and who goes with the stake presidency? How is a stake disciplinary council set up with casting lots?

What is the key purpose behind the temple and the endowment?

I could go on, but I think this list suffices. No, you cannot ask parents or others or Google for the answers. You made the claim you are smarter regarding the Church than those twice your age. Now let's see you back that up by demonstrating your personal knowledge on this.

[Dravin]

I'm not saying his ignorant mind you, but if he is he's demonstrated an attitude (such as in his theory that Latin languages came to the Americas via Lehi thread) that is unlikely to conceed such. He'll declare his answers good and knowledgeable via fiat even if they aren't.

[MorningStar]

No, most people don't know it. I've seen both people in the marriage out with other people of the opposite sex holding hands & kissing. And what business is it of yours as to what stake I'm in? I don't give stuff like that to people who put down others.

How do you know it's an "open marriage" though? Maybe they're both cheating on each other and don't know it?

[LDSChristian]

Perhaps you mean: compared to other 19 year old kids you know a lot about the Church. I very much doubt you know very much about it compared to Volgadon, Pam, Palerider, me, or some others here on the list.

Going by posts on here I'd have to disagree.

For example, can you tell me, without asking others, what are the keys of the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods? What is the difference between authority and power of the priesthood?

Interesting considering how I answered a question about the same as this one. The authority of the priesthood is just that, the authority from God to act in the name of Christ. The keys are the offices of the priesthood.

What is the difference between the Holy Ghost and the Gift of the Holy Ghost? When Jesus commanded us to be "perfect" what did he mean by it?

Having the Holy Ghost meaning the Holy Ghost being with a person to give them revelation on a matter. Having the Gift of the Holy Ghost is being able to have the Holy Ghost as a constant companion.

What do the scriptures mean by the terms "endless punishment" and "eternal punishment"?

The phrases speak for themselves.

Who goes to a disciplinary council with the bishop, and who goes with the stake presidency? How is a stake disciplinary council set up with casting lots?

Kind of an unfair question to ask. I will admit there are questions I don't know the answers to unlike others on here.

What is the key purpose behind the temple and the endowment?

Don't know but again, unlike others on here I admit when I don't know an answer.

I'll give just one. What are all the places in the Bible that speak of Baptism for the Dead? No using anything either including the topical guide.

[LDSChristian]

I'm not saying his ignorant mind you, but if he is he's demonstrated an attitude (such as in his theory that Latin languages came to the Americas via Lehi thread) that is unlikely to conceed such. He'll declare his answers good and knowledgeable via fiat even if they aren't.

Just as before when I did give good answers to things including by referencing the scriptures yet people felt the need to insult.

[Backroads]

Just as before when I did give good answers to things including by referencing the scriptures yet people felt the need to insult.

So what is your policy for disagreeing with you? What if we don't feel you gave good answers?

[rameumptom]

Going by posts on here I'd have to disagree.

You are welcome to disagree. As you'll notice, I did not say everyone on this list is smarter than you, regardless of age. For one, there are several who come here of varying ages who have committed adultery. I would say you have been wiser than them in many ways by keeping yourself chaste.

Interesting considering how I answered a question about the same as this one. The authority of the priesthood is just that, the authority from God to act in the name of Christ. The keys are the offices of the priesthood.

And here is where we begin the lesson on the gospel. The offices of the priesthood do not equal the keys of the priesthood. D&C 13 tells us that the three keys of the Aaronic Priesthood are: ministering of angels, gospel of repentance, and baptism by immersion in water for the remission of sins. The keys to the Melchizedek Priesthood are: the full gospel and the mysteries of godliness (D&C 84:19). Keys are fully held by certain offices in the Church (President of the MP or prophet/stake president, and bishop), however those keys are delegated and used by priests and deacons every time they bless and pass the Sacrament, encourage people to repent, or baptize. I could go much deeper into each of these keys, but will refrain to keep this discussion shorter.

Having the Holy Ghost meaning the Holy Ghost being with a person to give them revelation on a matter. Having the Gift of the Holy Ghost is being able to have the Holy Ghost as a constant companion.

Good answers. There is more to it than this, but decent for a short answer.

The phrases speak for themselves.

This is a non-answer. And no, they do not speak for themselves. You no doubt believe they mean punishment that will last forever. But in D&C 19, the Lord explains that Endless and Eternal are names/titles for God. So Endless Punishment is God's Punishment. It is punishment that can and will end, but it is the punishment that God metes out.

Kind of an unfair question to ask. I will admit there are questions I don't know the answers to unlike others on here.

It is not an unfair question, given your statement that you know the gospel as well as those twice your age! I was a high priest at the age of 29, and so was involved in disciplinary councils just a decade older than you. So, if you make a claim, I expect you to be able to support your claim. You can't have it both ways. Either back up it up or else you need to withdraw your claim. BTW, the answer is in the scriptures, so it isn't a secret.

D&C 102:12-22 explains the role of high council in the disciplinary hearing. The bishop sees all cases involving members who are not holders of the Melchizedek Priesthood. The stake presidency and high council are over all hearings for those holding the MP. The stake leaders can also see other cases if deemed difficult by the bishop.

Don't know but again, unlike others on here I admit when I don't know an answer.

I'm glad you can admit when you are wrong. It is a sign of growing maturity.

This, however, also is found in the scriptures. In fact, every single question I asked is found in the scriptures. I was not being unfair in any way (such as asking for quotes from CHI book 1).

D&C 84:19-25 tells us that the main key to the MP is the mysteries of godliness. It tells us that Moses tried to prepare the people to enter into the presence of God on Sinai. They refused, and so the MP and Moses were removed, and they were left with the Aaronic Priesthood with the key to the ministry of angels.

The temple and its endowment prepares us to stand in the presence of God. That is the greatest revelation of all, and is the key to the mystery of godliness.

I'll give just one. What are all the places in the Bible that speak of Baptism for the Dead? No using anything either including the topical guide.

Of those verses speaking only and specifically of baptism for the dead would be 1 Cor 15:29. Any other scriptures would be indirect, such as in 1 Peter 3:18, 4:6, which talk about preaching to the dead (and not about baptism for the dead per se).

I guess we can conclude that you probably know more of the gospel than other 19 year olds, but definitely not more than most members twice your age.... Be careful on patting yourself on the back, as you might sprain a muscle. And you may find that you aren't as smart as you really think you are. Due to your lack of experience and knowledge, you aren't that smart. But neither am I compared to many of the scholars in the Church, either.

[rameumptom]

Anyway, while I think LDSChristian is probably a good kid, he is a kid. He is still going through that phase many of us went through, where we thought we knew more than any older adult. Mark Twain noted that when his son was 12, the boy thought his Dad knew everything. When he turned 16, his Dad knew nothing. And then when the boy turned 25, suddenly he was amazed at how much his Dad had learned in such a short time!

LDSChristian is giving answers of a 19 year old. We shouldn't be attacking him or being rude to him. We just need to calmly and patiently guide him, until he matures.

As with many teens, he's going to say and do silly things. It is in their nature, as their hormones are raging and the decision making portion of their brains are not fully developed yet. Heck, I know a ton of older adults that are just as silly or stupid in the things they do! I suppose they just never got out of their teen brainless period. I have hope that LDSChristian will not forever remain stuck there, but with real experiences (mission, marriage, children), will learn wisdom just as the rest of us here have to do.

Having said that, I will encourage the lad to think twice before rejecting the statements of those here on this list. First, he doesn't know our experiences or knowledge. I doubt he's aware of the in-depth Gospel Doctrine lessons I've been doing here and on my blog over the past year+, or that I've done intensive studies of ancient Jewish-Christian texts and Mormonism. Or that Volgadon is a Jewish-Mormon living in the Holy Land and can translate directly from the Hebrew and Greek. Or that many here have held positions of leadership in wards and stakes, giving them knowledge and experiences that are still off in the distant future for him. Or that some of us have read more books on Mormonism, Christianity, history, science, etc., than he can imagine.

[LDSChristian]

I'm glad you can admit when you are wrong. It is a sign of growing maturity.

There's a difference in what you just said and what I said. Not knowing isn't being wrong. It's just not knowing so it's neither right or wrong.

This, however, also is found in the scriptures. In fact, every single question I asked is found in the scriptures. I was not being unfair in any way (such as asking for quotes from CHI book 1).

Keep that in mind whenever I mention things from scriptures as well.

Of those verses speaking only and specifically of baptism for the dead would be 1 Cor 15:29. Any other scriptures would be indirect, such as in 1 Peter 3:18, 4:6, which talk about preaching to the dead (and not about baptism for the dead per se).

I guess we can conclude that you probably know more of the gospel than other 19 year olds, but definitely not more than most members twice your age.... Be careful on patting yourself on the back, as you might sprain a muscle. And you may find that you aren't as smart as you really think you are. Due to your lack of experience and knowledge, you aren't that smart. But neither am I compared to many of the scholars in the Church, either.

1 Peter 3 is one of the scriptures that is directly talking about Baptism for the Dead. Keep reading past verse 18. You'll notice it's using the flood as a comparison to baptism which saved 8 from the sins of the world just as baptism by water saves us from our sins. The verses about baptism in this chapter are applied to the dead with the living.

[LDSChristian]

Having said that, I will encourage the lad to think twice before rejecting the statements of those here on this list. First, he doesn't know our experiences or knowledge. I doubt he's aware of the in-depth Gospel Doctrine lessons I've been doing here and on my blog over the past year+, or that I've done intensive studies of ancient Jewish-Christian texts and Mormonism. Or that Volgadon is a Jewish-Mormon living in the Holy Land and can translate directly from the Hebrew and Greek. Or that many here have held positions of leadership in wards and stakes, giving them knowledge and experiences that are still off in the distant future for him. Or that some of us have read more books on Mormonism, Christianity, history, science, etc., than he can imagine.

Good for you. I've checked on the connections between the Book of Mormon, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Septuagint, and things of that nature. Not to mention the mayan temples containing a story about a bearded white god that came out of the heavens and promised to return (2nd Coming). Also, the shape of mayan temples have a biblical significance. I've also looked at a timeline for when volcanoes have erupted here in the Americas, mostly Central, and many have been dated to erupting back to around the time of the crucifixion which helps out with the Book of Mormon's account of 3 days of darkness. I've also checked out the scriptures to see if there's anything similar to what Brigham taught which people believe as "Adam-God" doctrine when in fact the Bible says Christ is a second "Adam". I have over 100 links on my facebook and most of them are regarding research I've done that talks about the Book of Mormon as well as the book of Abraham being accurate.

[Wingnut]

There's a difference in what you just said and what I said. Not knowing isn't being wrong. It's just not knowing so it's neither right or wrong.

ARGH! You are so preoccupied with being right (or "not wrong") that you can't see what's actually being said to you.

[rameumptom]

You were wrong in stating you knew as much as LDS twice your age. You were honest in saying you didn't know the answer to that question. Was I wrong in thinking you now realize you don't know as much as adults twice your age? If so, my mistake, and so sad for you.

As I said, 1 Peter indirectly touches on it. There is an LDS interpretation for it, such as you are using, but it is one that no one else could determine without modern revelation to point it out. You asked about scriptures for baptism for the dead. 1 Peter 3:18-22 does not discuss baptism for the dead. It discusses that the gospel will be preached to those who died back in the days of Noah and the Flood. With LDS views, one can attach a baptism for the dead meaning to it, but it is very indirect, and meaningless in talking with Christian scholars.

1 Cor 15:29, OTOH, directly references baptism for the dead, and so can be discussed with Christian scholars on such a level.

Your standards of evidence are okay for a teenager, but not sufficient for scholar work.

[rameumptom]

Good for you. I've checked on the connections between the Book of Mormon, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Septuagint, and things of that nature. Not to mention the mayan temples containing a story about a bearded white god that came out of the heavens and promised to return (2nd Coming). Also, the shape of mayan temples have a biblical significance. I've also looked at a timeline for when volcanoes have erupted here in the Americas, mostly Central, and many have been dated to erupting back to around the time of the crucifixion which helps out with the Book of Mormon's account of 3 days of darkness. I've also checked out the scriptures to see if there's anything similar to what Brigham taught which people believe as "Adam-God" doctrine when in fact the Bible says Christ is a second "Adam". I have over 100 links on my facebook and most of them are regarding research I've done that talks about the Book of Mormon as well as the book of Abraham being accurate.

So you "checked" these things out. You are checking them out from a 19 year old perspective. I've been studying these things for over 30 years. I'm guessing I have a more in depth understanding than you do, unless your grandfather was Hugh Nibley and you started studying these things at the age of 5.

The concepts of the bearded white god in Mayan legend are not considered tied to Christ by current LDS Mayan experts, like my friend Brant Gardner. Are you using current data from current scholars? Are you actually studying the source material, or at least a good English translation of the source material? Or are you reading books written for the LDS masses that vary in quality? I have a handful of books on my shelf that are like this, mostly given to me by friends, which are next to useless, except for the photographs inside. Some of these are as bad of scholarship as Erich Von Daniken's interpretations suggesting visitors from outer space populating the earth!

Most LDS scholars consider Brigham Young's Adam-God theory a "set aside". As we now have it, with just a couple quotes to go on, it does not mesh with LDS theology. And since there is not enough information to go on, they choose to set it aside on the shelf and not touch it. There are more important things to study than that, as it goes nowhere fast.

While I spend time on LDS.Net, what you do not know is I spend as much, if not more time discussing LDS and other issues with LDS scholars. This includes discussions on ancient texts, philosophy, hermeneutics, etc. I've edited some of the scholarly articles at FAIR. I've found a hymn in the Dead Sea Scrolls that ties in closely to Nephi's Psalm. I've also discovered in an ancient Egyptian papyrus an explanation to why the arms Ammon cut off his enemies were taken to King Lamoni. I've read through the texts of the Dead Sea Scrolls several time, as well as the Nag Hammadi, and many other texts. I've discussed in detail on my blog how the Ascension of Isaiah parallels closely the theophany of Lehi, and how the Apocalypse of Paul ties in closely with the endowment and compares in certain ways with Nephi's vision of the Tree of Life.

For your information, I have an Associate's in Information Technology Management, a BS in Resource Management, and a MA in Teaching/History. In my research for my history degree, I used original documents tied in with the Israeli/Arab conflict, particularly in regards to the 1972 Yom Kippur War.

These are just a few of my experiences. I once was 19 and I knew more than many kids my own age regarding the gospel. But compared to what I know now, I knew nothing. And as we've had many discussions with you on gospel subjects and dating, etc., I'm thinking you are another typical 19 year old LDS kid: a good guy, but a long way from really knowing much.

[rameumptom]

ARGH! You are so preoccupied with being right (or "not wrong") that you can't see what's actually being said to you.

Lighten up Francis. We're talking to a teenager here....

[MorningStar]

You should save your threads in a document and read them again in 20 years. Then share them with your children when they develop the bad habit of telling you and other more experienced people how they are more knowledgeable and mature.

[ryanh]

LDSChristian is giving answers of a 19 year old.

Not sure I really agree with that. I see other teens on here that behave themselves much more maturely in the electronic world than I have seen from this purported 19 yo. In fact, I can't recall any other teens behaving so badly in the two years I've been here.

Perhaps it's ODD?

Or just narcissism?

Simply a troll?