Jesus Paying for Our Sins

[Loi13]

I read somewhere that mormons believe Jesus paid for our sins at the Garden of Gethesemane as opposed to his death on the cross. Is this true?

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

I read somewhere that mormons believe Jesus paid for our sins at the Garden of Gethesemane as opposed to his death on the cross. Is this true?

You have read this amongst various Anti-Mormon literature and postings. There is nothing in Mormon teaching that we believe Christ paid for our sins in the Garden of Gethsemane. What Anti-Mormon's and Counter Cult Ministries have taken and misinterpreted are statements that when Christ was in the Garden of Gethsemane, praying to the father, he sweat what it appeared to be great drops of blood. This account is recorded in Matthew 26, Mark 14, and Luke 22.

When you carefully read these three passages, you will find that Christ was under extreme duress and agony. He prayed that the cup pass from his lips. He called this cup, bitter. Here, we see a very real human quality of Christ. To the point that this human quality is fear. He, being the Son of God, feared what was about to happen to him. Yet, he remained strong and steadfast. He prayed to his Father in Heaven. Christians really do not like this part of the passion. They view Christ as a hero, a redeemer who went quietly, peacefully and did not suffer until he was nailed to the Cross. They have this false sense of ideal that Christ shed blood only at the cross and it was this blood that he shed saving us from our sins and washing us.

However, they negate the whole panoramic view of the road from Gethsemane to the Resurrection.

While in the Garden of Gethsemane, the reality of his impending death came upon him. The reality that he is about to be tortured, spat upon, ridiculed, and eventually put to death weighed heavily upon him.

Think about it. If you knew exactly how you would die in the most gruesome manner and way, would that not cause some serious agony and pain?

THE TOUGHEST TEMPTATION

This temptation in Gethsemane was the hardest one. It is the only one where the Bible accounts that he sweat drops of blood. Sweating drops of blood is extremely rare, but it is biologically and medically possible, for a person can become so upset that actual drops of blood will form at the surface of the skin as the different capillaries and vessels break. The Bible indicates that Jesus had no problem what so ever with the first three temptations; or, if he had any real difficulties, it is certainly not accounted for us.

However, this fourth temptation brought him to immense distress. The temptation here is two-fold: what you are running away from and what you are running toward. Jesus at this point was running away from a very bitter, a very unpleasant death. No one enjoys being crucified; it is not a pleasant experience. However, there was the flipside. Jesus could have run toward a normal life, he could have left ministry, he could have left the disciples, he could have found himself a lovely home somewhere, settled down and had children. He had seen many other people lead normal lives. Certainly there was a great temptation to leave this bitter cup behind, and not have to partake of it's pain, and move from this tragic world of ministry into a simple, calm homelife. The contradictory desires between the calling of God and his human desires created such a tension, such a pain that he, as the record states, sweat drops of blood.

Lee Strobel even stated this, during his investigation into the Christian Faith and reality of Jesus Christ:

Sweating Blood

Luke wrote that when Jesus was praying before he was arrested, "his sweat was like drops of blood" (see Luke 22:44). That sounds like exaggeration at the very least - not the kind of medical accuracy you would hope for from a doctor, which is what Luke was.

But it turns out that doctors today recognize a rare medical condition (it's called hematidrosis) that looks like what Luke described. What happens is that high anxiety causes certain chemicals to release into the capillaries in the sweat glands. These chemicals break down the capillaries (very tiny blood vessels) so that there's a small amount of bleeding right in the sweat glands. When the sweat comes out, it's tinged with blood."

When we take in the whole scene, Christ shed blood through sweat (which is rare, but medically possible) because of the immense agony and anxiety he faced in the impending death that would come upon him. He was arrested and tried. He then was flogged by Roman soldiers. Flogging is where it is a whip that has metal shards, broken glass, or any other object that is jagged, and sharp to cut the skin. Again, in the Case for Christ, Lee Strobel relates this:

...flogging in the Roman empire followed a predictable and consistent pattern. The soldier would use a whip of braided leather thongs with metal balls woven into them. When the whip would strike the flesh, these balls would cause deep bruises, which would break open with further blows. And the whip had pieces of sharp bone as well, which would cut into the flesh.

The back of the person being flogged would be so shredded that part of the spine was sometimes exposed by the deep cuts. The lash of the whip would go all the way from the shoulders down to the back, the buttocks, and the back of the legs. The whip would tear into underlying muscles to produce quivering ribbons of bleeding flesh, and sometimes even expose internal organs.

Usually flogging consisted of 39 lashes, although a soldier might inflect more, depending on his mood. Many people died from flogging even before they could be crucified. Those who didn't die often went into shock.

By the time the soldiers were done flogging Jesus, he would have been in serious condition-even before the first nail was driven in to hang him on the cross.

Christ would have lost significant amount of blood just by flogging alone.

The nailing to the cross was only the final act in the Roman torture. This produced even more pain and suffering upon the person and their body (if they survive the flogging). The reason for this is because it would constrict the person's breathing. Imagine your back severely exposed to where when you grated it against the wooden beam, you would cry out in pain. A very effective, grotesque form of torture.

Did Christ shed his blood on the cross? In a sense yes, but majority of his blood loss was during the flogging, and the journey up to Golgotha where he hung on the Cross to die.

He was then buried and upon the third day, he rose the third day with a resurrected body.

So, when it comes to the Latter-day Saint understanding of the atonement, we do not put our faith and idea on just the Cross as the end all be all of our faith. We understand the reality and severity that Christ did not just hang on the cross and suffered and died for our sins and that his shed blood covers our sin's, but that the process of the atonement began in the Garden of Gethsemane and became fulfilled with his bodily resurrection.

What did Christ come to save mankind from? Sin and Death. Christians place emphasis on the fact he came to die for our sins and that is it. There is much more to the passion of Christ in that he came to save us from our Sins, and to conquer Death.

This is why Baptism is so important because we die unto Christ, are buried unto Christ, and we rise with newness of life in Christ for the remission of our sins.

Here are some good links for you to truly pray about, ponder, and read:

The Purefying Power of Gethsemane by Bruce R. McKonkie

From the Garden to the Empty Tomb

Gethsemane - The Place of Atonement

These are just a few articles that deal with this from a Latter-day Perspective.

Now, what is interesting, Gethsemane actually is referenced to that of the common industry - Oil Press. This industry produced Olive Oil that was used as an ignition source for candles, and lights. It is the oil Christ referenced in his parable of the Ten Virgins. The Garden of Gethsemane means Oil Press.

The process in which Olive Oil was extracted involved pressing it to the point that the oil would flow out.

The common method of harvesting olives from the time of the

Patriarchs was to hit the tree with sticks. As the olives fell and

broke some oil came from the olive on the gathering sheets. This oil

was the 'beaten oil' and was used for the menorah in the Temple of the

Lord.

The olive was then crushed with a stone and the crushed olive pulp

gathered into rope bags and brought to the olive press. A stone or

wooden weight was put directly on the bags and then a beam lowered onto

the weight. This was left for 20 minutes and was the first pressing.

This oil was given to the Cohanim, the priests. One hanging stone was

then placed on the beam to create more weight and was left for 2

hours. This second pressing was used for food and cooking...

nourishment. A second hanging stone was then added to the beam and was

left for 4 hours. This third pressing was used for lamps to provide

light to the people. A third and final hanging stone was added and

left for 8 hours. This fourth pressing was used for making soap and

medicinal ointments.

So, when Christ was in the Garden praying he was pressed down with such severity of taken upon him the sins of the world - to the point that his sweat was that of great drops of blood. In a sense, yes, this is where Christ took upon himself the sins of the world because it is here that he realized the mission he must fulfill - Not my will, but thine is what Christ cried out to his Father in Heaven.

Edited February 28, 2011 by SeattleTruthSeeker

[bytebear]

I read somewhere that mormons believe Jesus paid for our sins at the Garden of Gethesemane as opposed to his death on the cross. Is this true?

Yeah, this is a common anti-Mormon talking point, and it is utterly false. Mormons do emphasize the garden of Gethemeane more than other Christian faiths, but then they emphasize the Old Testament, prophets, and a slew of other Biblical truths as well.

But that does not mean the cross has no meaning to Mormons. Here are a few Book of Mormon verses on the importance of the cross:

1 Nephi 11:33

And I, Nephi, saw that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world.

3 Nephi 27:14

And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—

So, the next time you hear someone say Mormons don't believe that Christ died for our sins on the cross, just tell them to read the Book of Mormon.

[prisonchaplain]

While many questions brought to here bare the markings of counter-LDS ministry sites, this one need not have. I have read postings here that de-emphasize (not eliminate) the cross, and which draw much greater attention to the Garden. It seems probable to me that some LDS members would make the mistake of saying salvation was won at the Garden rather than the cross, as a way of making the distinction. This conversation often comes up with the even vaguer question, "Why don't LDS wards have crosses on them?"

BTW Seattle's and Bytor's answers are detailed, nuanced, and excellent. However, I thought the OP was offered in in simple enough matter that we did not need to assume any particular agenda.

[bytebear]

While many questions brought to here bare the markings of counter-LDS ministry sites, this one need not have. I have read postings here that de-emphasize (not eliminate) the cross, and which draw much greater attention to the Garden. It seems probable to me that some LDS members would make the mistake of saying salvation was won at the Garden rather than the cross, as a way of making the distinction. This conversation often comes up with the even vaguer question, "Why don't LDS wards have crosses on them?"

BTW Seattle's and Bytor's answers are detailed, nuanced, and excellent. However, I thought the OP was offered in in simple enough matter that we did not need to assume any particular agenda.

I was just going to update my response to include that I didn't want to imply that the OP was anti-Mormon. But the question does often come from anti-Mormon sources. I suppose it would be the same as one saying we worship Joseph Smith. Yes, we emphasize him as a prophet, and leader, more than say the Lutherans do to martin Luther, even though he could be considered the source of their faith. But, to ignore that Mormons worship Jesus Christ is similar to misrepresenting the whole picture of faith.

The atonement is far more complex than his death on the cross, Even the Catholic Church has the Stations of the Cross which includes far more than just the few moments when he said "it is finished." The question is when did it begin? At the garden? when the Romans captured him? At the Last Supper? At his birth? Which parts should Christians emphasize? Mormons choose to emphasize the resurrection and the Living Christ, which is why crosses as symbols of worship are absent. We also use the sacrament of broken bread and wine/water to remember Him in formal worship.

[rameumptom]

We believe the atonement began in the premortal existence, when Jesus offered to be our Savior (Book of Abraham 3, Book of Moses 4:1-4). This atonement was prepared before the foundations of this world. His actual atonement met its climax in the period between the Garden of Gethsemane and through the resurrection. In the Garden, his spiritual torment for our souls was so great that he sweat great drops of blood. On the cross, he continued this struggle for our souls, forgiving the Roman soldiers who divided his clothing and caring for his mother. God the Father left Jesus alone on the cross to bear all things by himself (My God, why has thou forsaken me?). In the resurrection on the third day, he broke the bonds of physical and spiritual death.

Today he continues with the atonement. Every time Jesus forgives us of a sin, the atonement touches us anew.

[Blackmarch]

I read somewhere that mormons believe Jesus paid for our sins at the Garden of Gethesemane as opposed to his death on the cross. Is this true?

Not quite. we believe that Christ paid for our sins through his whole ordeal, at the Garden of Gethsemane right on through to his resurrection. Wouldn't have worked without any part of those.

[prisonchaplain]

We're seeing a very wholistic understanding on this string. To add a rather childlike word play...the atonement grants us "at-onement" with Christ.

[Seminarysnoozer]

While many questions brought to here bare the markings of counter-LDS ministry sites, this one need not have. I have read postings here that de-emphasize (not eliminate) the cross, and which draw much greater attention to the Garden. It seems probable to me that some LDS members would make the mistake of saying salvation was won at the Garden rather than the cross, as a way of making the distinction. This conversation often comes up with the even vaguer question, "Why don't LDS wards have crosses on them?"

BTW Seattle's and Bytor's answers are detailed, nuanced, and excellent. However, I thought the OP was offered in in simple enough matter that we did not need to assume any particular agenda.

Our buildings have trees around them .... like a garden. :)

[AGStacker]

I read somewhere that mormons believe Jesus paid for our sins at the Garden of Gethesemane as opposed to his death on the cross. Is this true?

What other religions do not understand is that Christ actually suffered for all of our sins. He didn't just die for us but literally suffered the penalty of ALL of our sins. Anytime we did something wrong He physically suffered because of it. The sins weren't merely paid for on the cross because if this was the case you could very well say a soldier defending his country who dies for it could do the same. Death does not equal atonement. Death and the atonement are two different things.

Christ physically suffered for all sins before the cross and ended His mortal mission on the cross.