Jamie123 Posted March 10, 2011 Report Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) ... Edited March 28, 2011 by Jamie123
jayanna Posted March 10, 2011 Report Posted March 10, 2011 Another way to tell if it is true is by living by what is written in it, and see if it brings you closer to Christ. I'm really surprised that more people don't read the Book of Mormon. You can read it alongside the Bible, following the footnotes at the bottom of each page, seeing where things are mentioned in the Bible that pertain to the information given in the current verse or chapter. I learned a lot that way, but still prayed about whether it was true. Don't get me wrong, I don't judge those that don't have a testimony of it. Sometimes, though, you really have to dig on your own, really read it objectively and pray, sometimes pray repeatedly, being willing to recieve what ever answer to the "is it true?' question. It is very personal, and humbling, and intense. I'll never forget my answer. I had a lot riding on it. It meant changing my whole life, and my children who were depending on me. My whole family (mom, dad, siblings, extended family) were so against it. Some still are, but some are tolerating my choices, and some are intrigued about the changes that have come of it. I have found that not only does the Book of Mormon teach the same gospel as the Bible, it actually testifies of the truthfulness of the Bible. At first when I started reading it, I remember thinking, "Yeah, it is too good to be true. It will sound great at first, but when I dig deeper into it, it will prove a hoax like everything else." Well, it gets truer (is that a word?) and more profound every time I read it. When I run on something I don't understand, I read what comes before and what comes after, and then it clears up. I also usually pray before I read, and ponder what it means to me in my current situation. btw sister missionaries are the best ones :) even the Elders will say so.
Jamie123 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) Another way to tell if it is true is by living by what is written in it, and see if it brings you closer to Christ.Thanks Jayanna - I think that's what I mean by "a working assumption". By not making any assumptions at all, and by only going by what you know to be true, you end up like the guy at the end of The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. (Book and radio series, not the movie.)btw sister missionaries are the best ones :) even the Elders will say so.I think the sisters do tend to be better than the Elders...probably because they're not allowed to be missionaries till they are older...and therefore have a little more maturity than the boys who are (let's face it) still at the tail-end of their adolescence. Mind you, I have known some slightly loopy missionaries of both sexes. Edited March 10, 2011 by Jamie123
prisonchaplain Posted March 10, 2011 Report Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) Jamie, the Bible has quite a bit going for it. You are correct that most Christians assume it is true, because we have been taught so, because we have sung of its truth (the B-I-B-L-E, yes that's the book for me, I stand alone on the word of God, the B-I-B-L-E...BIBLE!), and because we've grown to love its stories and message. Intuitively, we reckon that a 2000 year old book that's been bled for, and that has wrought a 2-billion person following must have something to it. For me, looking at a writing that in fact stretches back 3400 years, which was compiled over 1400+ years, has writings from rich, poor, educated and no so much, royal, fisherman, prophets, and yet, which manages to come together in a powerful way...well, it has something to say to the world. Most Christians do not read the BoM because those that taught us the Bible did not teach us the BoM. Our leaders do not believe it. It's something that, to most Christians, another religion teaches. Even the more open-minded would say it's a particular book for one of our outlying sects. I'm not suggesting that you do not read it or pray about it. You should, because you seem to be compelled to. That may well be the Spirit trying to show you something. On the other hand, be re-assured that your faith in the Bible, and that faith most Christians hold, is built upon more than personal assumption and loyalty. There is indeed a history, and centuries of serious thought that back it up. I suppose Muslims, and perhaps Buddhists and Hindus, may say the same, but none has garnered the international love and appeal that the Bible has. Edited March 10, 2011 by prisonchaplain
rameumptom Posted March 10, 2011 Report Posted March 10, 2011 Still, even if we study the writings of scholars in archaeology, linguistics, etc., none of that can prove that Moses divided the Red Sea, Elijah was carried to heaven in a flaming chariot, or that Jesus resurrected. In essence, it is very subjective to believe the Bible as the word of God (or the book of Mormon, for that matter). Spiritual things cannot be proven nor disproved by the scientific method. We can learn many things through personal spiritual experience, but it is not the same thing. Two people look through a telescope and will see the moons of Saturn. Two people pray about a testimony of the Book of Mormon, and while they both may receive a testimony, it will be received differently (burning in bosom, mind enlightened, feeling of peace, confidence/assurance, etc). And then when a person does not receive a witness, we explain it as they were not ready for some reason. Next, we do not know which parts are actually historical, and which are more mythical. Nor do we know which parts are pure revelatory, and which parts may have been manipulated anciently or a revelation that was misinterpreted along the way to mean something else. Jamie, I'm glad you recognize this. It is the beginning of learning real wisdom regarding our individual belief in God, how we obtain it, why we have it, and how to develop it even more. Many Christians are Calvinist. The TULIP explains that those who believe, do so because of Irresistible Grace. IOW, a totally subjective experience happens to those who will be saved, and there is nothing they can do about it. The LDS method of praying for a testimony is at least honest about these tings.
john doe Posted March 11, 2011 Report Posted March 11, 2011 Quit whining about chat. Constant complaints about the same thing could be violations of rule #6.
Jamie123 Posted March 11, 2011 Author Posted March 11, 2011 · Hidden Hidden Quit whining about chat. Constant complaints about the same thing could be violations of rule #6.I'm sad that you interpreted my light-hearted opening comments as "whining" and have nothing whatsoever to say about the rest of my message. For goodness sake I wasn't being serious. But there I go "whining" again, so I'll stop...
Jamie123 Posted March 11, 2011 Author Posted March 11, 2011 · Hidden Hidden Quit whining about chat. Constant complaints about the same thing could be violations of rule #6.Mustn't forget those Space Core regulations *Jamie does Rimmer Salute
Jamie123 Posted March 11, 2011 Author Posted March 11, 2011 · Hidden Hidden Quit whining about chat. Constant complaints about the same thing could be violations of rule #6.I wasn't whining about anything. It was just banter - that was all. As was the post you just deleted.
Jamie123 Posted March 11, 2011 Author Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) · Hidden Hidden Quit whining about chat. Constant complaints about the same thing could be violations of rule #6.**** I WAS NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT CHAT!!!!!!! ****This wasn't anything about chat being closed. I'm betting you just saw the word "chat" and jumped straight on your high-horse without bothering to read the rest of the post. Am I right?Yes...yes...I'm sure you devote "a lot of time" and do "a lot of good work" moderating this forum, but does this give you the right to ride rough-shod over other people's feelings? I'm starting to hate the double standards of this forum. Any complaints from ordinary members about mods have to be dealt with in private, but the the mods have no qualms about posting nasty hurtful put-downs like this in the public forum.Why don't you start practicing what you preach? Edited May 10, 2011 by Jamie123
Jamie123 Posted October 11, 2011 Author Posted October 11, 2011 · Hidden Hidden Quit whining about chat. Constant complaints about the same thing could be violations of rule #6.I've been trying to put the above message out of my mind for the last six months, but it was SO hurtful I've been unable to do so. Yeah I know..."build a bridge and get over it"....but words hurt. These words from John Doe were particularly hurtful as they came in response to a spiritually uplifting conversation which I wanted to share.Firstly, my original message was NOT a complaint about chat being closed. John Doe saw only a little jokey comment at the start, and responded by bawling me out in public - which felt, to be honest, like a kick in the face. Secondly, even if I had technically broken a rule, was it REALLY necessary to bawl me out on the open forum? It was deeply hurtful and humiliating. If complaints about moderators have to be dealt with in private, why can't moderators' complaints about ordinary members be similarly treated? Why does John Doe get to trample roughshod over other people's feelings, just because he's Head Moderator? (And this isn't just about me - I've seen him do it to other people too.)I'm well aware this message probably breaks the rules too, and considering my past indiscretions I fully expect to be banned for it. But now I've got this off my chest I probably shan't be coming back anyway.
FunkyTown Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Jamie?6 months? What? Who? What are we talking about? You quoted something from a week ago.I figure that couldn't possibly be what this is about, so can you provide some form of background to those of us who think this thread seems crazier than a monkey driving a barrel truck through a meringue factory?I've been trying to put the above message out of my mind for the last six months, but it was SO hurtful I've been unable to do so. Yeah I know..."build a bridge and get over it"....but words hurt. These words from John Doe were particularly hurtful as they came in response to a spiritually uplifting conversation which I wanted to share.Firstly, my original message was NOT a complaint about chat being closed. John Doe saw only a little jokey comment at the start, and responded by bawling me out in public - which felt, to be honest, like a kick in the face. Secondly, even if I had technically broken a rule, was it REALLY necessary to bawl me out on the open forum? It was deeply hurtful and humiliating. If complaints about moderators have to be dealt with in private, why can't moderators' complaints about ordinary members be similarly treated? Why does John Doe get to trample roughshod over other people's feelings, just because he's Head Moderator? (And this isn't just about me - I've seen him do it to other people too.)I'm well aware this message probably breaks the rules too, and considering my past indiscretions I fully expect to be banned for it. But now I've got this off my chest I probably shan't be coming back anyway.
rameumptom Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Jamie, the problem of letting it go is with you. John Doe did not "bawl" you out. He made a quick comment that chat is no longer available, and suggested everyone move on. To bring this up again after six months makes you seem really small. Especially in complaining in public. You could have taken this issue at anytime over the last six months to John Doe in private, and discussed it with him. Instead, you chose to stew over something so minor for six whole months and then post publicly about how wrong it was for him to publicly post something? We've had several whine about chat since it was stopped (and for some very good reasons I cannot nor will not disclose). JD was right in encouraging people to get over it, and stop whining about it. That you took offense and allowed it to fester for six months is not his fault.
john doe Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Since the OP has been deleted this thread makes no sense. Please read the site rules if you have issues with the way this site is moderated.
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