Backroads Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 The undeniable biological truth is that sexual desire is hormonal which is not love. Love transcends the veil. Sexual desire does not. Hormones are an earthly thing. As we age our early fascination with sexual motivation diminishes, at least in healthy people. It doesn't go away entirely but it very definitely lessens - a lot. Now, in a Celestial setting, I would not be surprised if there is a lot we do not know. :)For anyone looking for some justification for homosexuality, which is where this discussion seems headed, that dog won't hunt.So then is sex a righteous desire or an evil desire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexviper13 Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 So then is sex a righteous desire or an evil desire?If the reason is just because you want sex then obviously that's an evil desire. If it's with someone you love, while married, then it's natural and righteous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 If the reason is just because you want sex then obviously that's an evil desire. If it's with someone you love, while married, then it's natural and righteous.Then if it's righteous, what makes it unfitting for the eternities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seminarysnoozer Posted April 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 So then is sex a righteous desire or an evil desire?I think this is actually, in a strange way, the purpose of this question. You are seemingly trying to equate this with desires of the heart. But by doing so then you are saying that this is a trait that is generated by the spirit. If it is a trait generated by the body then the question is not "is sex a righteous desire" but "is it a righteous desire to keep sex confined to the laws of chastity and the uses outlined by the gospel?" If we thought sex and sexual attraction was driven by spiritual traits then one could ask a question about righteous desires in that way. Is it a righteous desire to control physical passions of all kind? Yes! To have them and control them are two different questions. This question is kind of like asking; "Is it a righteous desire to be hungry on fast Sunday?" If one is hungry on Fast Sunday, I don't think they can control that aspect of their situation, they can only control what they do about the hunger. Likewise, I think sexual desire is either there or it's not. We can make it tougher for ourselves though, like when someone accidentally brings treats on Fast Sunday. We do things to not make the challenge tougher for ourselves. If a person exposes themselves to things that bring out sexual passions that would go against the laws and commandments then that reveals their unrighteous desire of the heart to not want to follow those laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlf9999 Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Then if it's righteous, what makes it unfitting for the eternities?It isn't as far as I know. Maybe there is something else. Who knows. But I never heard anyone say sex was bad. The when, where and with whom is the issue. Who told you sex was bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 So then is sex a righteous desire or an evil desire?How about it is just a desire... Righteousness or evil is in how we act about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 It isn't as far as I know. Maybe there is something else. Who knows. But I never heard anyone say sex was bad. The when, where and with whom is the issue. Who told you sex was bad?No one did. I was just asking in order to clarify people's thoughts.Is sex just a base necessity for this life? Or are we going with the idea that it is a form of creation that makes us more like God? If sex is a righteous thing, is it so crazy to think it's part of the eternities and with it those sexual urges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seminarysnoozer Posted April 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 No one did. I was just asking in order to clarify people's thoughts.Is sex just a base necessity for this life? Or are we going with the idea that it is a form of creation that makes us more like God? If sex is a righteous thing, is it so crazy to think it's part of the eternities and with it those sexual urges?I tend to think it is from creation and the fall. Without the fall of Adam and Eve it wasn't there either (as far as we know). I really doubt people in the Terrestrial kingdom will have it and yet they will be happy, it is a Kingdom of Glory. Just like we will hunger and thirst no more, I think many bodily passions will not pull us in one direction or another after resurrection. In other words, I doubt there will be any "urges" of any kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayanna Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Well, as far as sex is concerned, no they will not have that in any kingdom except where we can be eternal companions. You would have to be sealed. However, the 'oneness' I described, or heard described in my memory can also not be fully achieved in this estate. I think our understanding of it will come to full flower in the celestial kingdom. I don't think we will be able to look at someone other than our companion and have 'urges'. We will be beyond temptation, having no adversary, but we will be able to feel that way about our spouse at appropriate moments, and when we choose to.Not just a physical experience between two people, but something much much more. As a sealed couple we will have no divisions, a full capacity of our brain power, we will be unified in every way...with no concern about self-esteem or insecurity. Edited April 13, 2011 by jayanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ztodd Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 If you wanna know what I think, I think you are thinking about sex too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 The above deserves a laugh button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seminarysnoozer Posted April 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) If you wanna know what I think, I think you are thinking about sex too much.People tend to identify themselves according to temporary traits, earthly traits. Remembering who we really are and what we can become is a big struggle and definitely part of the gospel. I think many in this world get so wrapped up in these temporary traits that the true purpose and test in this life gets obscured. Sexual attraction is just one example as the attraction part, at least in the beginning for most in this world is based on physical characteristics. It can easily pull people away from the iron rod. There are many other examples of physical traits and talents from which people center their lives around that becomes who they think they are when it most likely is just a borrowed talent or trait H.F. has given for this probationary, test period. i.e. - musicians, professional athletes, professors, intellectuals, born leaders, the "sick-role" etc. etc. These talents or set of challenges are useful when taken with humility and in the right light and used to build the Kingdom of God on Earth but can be a source of the wandering pathways as in Lehi's dream. It is just easier to talk about sexual attraction in this type of discussion because it tends to affect pretty much everyone. If I would have started out with "musical talent" instead of "sexual attraction" I probably would have gotten more of a heated argument back but even fewer responders. ... maybe not. Edited April 12, 2011 by Seminarysnoozer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 I tend to think it is from creation and the fall. Without the fall of Adam and Eve it wasn't there either (as far as we know). I really doubt people in the Terrestrial kingdom will have it and yet they will be happy, it is a Kingdom of Glory. Just like we will hunger and thirst no more, I think many bodily passions will not pull us in one direction or another after resurrection. In other words, I doubt there will be any "urges" of any kind.Just a thought on urges. While I don't think they will be as prominent, however I do think that there will be something there (whether or not how much they will be from physical sources or other I don't know) as much of the gospel is made to help us gain discipline over our urges as well as teaching us how to make right decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Different people define terms differently. When I was at BYU, in one of my classes we defined "sex" as what is inherent to being male or female. For example, having two X chromosomes, having "lady parts," and certain hormones are inherent to being female (normally). We defined "gender" as having to do with what society expects of each sex. For example, men are expected to be "tough" and not cry, and it's normal for women to wear dresses. Those things are not inherent to being male or female, but it's something cultural.As to the original question, spirits obviously cannot reproduce physical bodies, so I would expect that that portion of sexual attraction is a physical thing. However, it's possible that a male spirit might be attracted to the way female spirits think, feel, and act, and that could be classified as a form of sexual attraction sans hormones. MS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seminarysnoozer Posted April 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Different people define terms differently. When I was at BYU, in one of my classes we defined "sex" as what is inherent to being male or female. For example, having two X chromosomes, having "lady parts," and certain hormones are inherent to being female (normally). We defined "gender" as having to do with what society expects of each sex. For example, men are expected to be "tough" and not cry, and it's normal for women to wear dresses. Those things are not inherent to being male or female, but it's something cultural.As to the original question, spirits obviously cannot reproduce physical bodies, so I would expect that that portion of sexual attraction is a physical thing. However, it's possible that a male spirit might be attracted to the way female spirits think, feel, and act, and that could be classified as a form of sexual attraction sans hormones. MS? If gender is based on societal norms for each sex, then how does that apply to the pre-Earthly life? Then how can there be gender without having two "sexes"? And if there are two "sexes" their must be sex. Right? Otherwise that definition can't apply to pre-earthly life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Different people define terms differently. When I was at BYU, in one of my classes we defined "sex" as what is inherent to being male or female. For example, having two X chromosomes, having "lady parts," and certain hormones are inherent to being female (normally). We defined "gender" as having to do with what society expects of each sex. For example, men are expected to be "tough" and not cry, and it's normal for women to wear dresses. Those things are not inherent to being male or female, but it's something cultural.As to the original question, spirits obviously cannot reproduce physical bodies, so I would expect that that portion of sexual attraction is a physical thing. However, it's possible that a male spirit might be attracted to the way female spirits think, feel, and act, and that could be classified as a form of sexual attraction sans hormones. MS? I think that might very well apply more so than hormonal urges. I believe gender is eternal. I don't think our spirits were sexless, especially as all things were created in spirit before the physical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seminarysnoozer Posted April 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 I think that might very well apply more so than hormonal urges. I believe gender is eternal. I don't think our spirits were sexless, especially as all things were created in spirit before the physical.They were created spiritually but by beings that had physical characteristics. That, in fact, might be the key to "creation" or at least procreation. I don't think we believe that procreation exists in the spirit alone form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampgeek Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Well, as far as sex is concerned, no they will not have that in any kingdom except where we can be eternal companions. You would have to be sealed. However, the 'oneness' I described, or heard described in my memory can also not be fully achieved in this estate. I think our understanding of it will come to full flower in the celestial kingdom. I don't think we will be able to look at someone other than our companion and have 'urges'. We will be beyond temptation, having no adversary, but we will be able to feel that way about our spouse at appropriate moments, and when we choose to.Not just a physical experience between two people, but something much much more. As a sealed couple we will have no divisions, a full capacity of our brain power, we will be unified in every way...with no concern about self-esteem or insecurity.Beautifully put. I see the "urges" everyone is referring to as a base instinct related to procreation need to fulfill the requirement "go forth and multiply". Without some incentive why else would anyone put up with kids? But seriously, we are attracted to each other in much more ways than just sexual desires, most of the time. I still for the life of me don't understand my wife's attraction to me, but am quite thankful for it.As for the temptations and issues after this life, that's a tough one. There have been wars in heaven before, there have been disagreements before, and I hope that our progression is as eternal as the time here after or I'm gonna have to load up my Kindle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 If gender is based on societal norms for each sex, then how does that apply to the pre-Earthly life? Then how can there be gender without having two "sexes"? And if there are two "sexes" their must be sex. Right? Otherwise that definition can't apply to pre-earthly life.Well, the Proclamation on the Family states that our spirits were gendered in the pre-existence. Chances are they were not defining the terms the same way our class was, so they probably meant "sex," that is, that there were male and female spirits. I see no reason why gender couldn't exist also in the pre-existence. I'm not saying there necessarily was--this is just speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 I think that might very well apply more so than hormonal urges. I believe gender is eternal. I don't think our spirits were sexless, especially as all things were created in spirit before the physical.Agreed, it probably does apply to more than just hormonal urges. That was merely an example. According to the Proclamation on the Family, gender is eternal (though they probably meant "sex" in the terms our class was using).Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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