Mental Illness and a Prophet

[sevenwinds]

Hi,

I've been strongly committed to the idea of a prophet for decades and have been taught the idea since I can remember. However, over the last many years, I've worked closely with the elderly and I have been absolutely stunned by the many mental problems they exhibit - years before their death. Then I started thinking that maybe this is one reason of many why Americans don't like kings.

Example, I had one patient make up a whole conversation we never had. The scary part was that he had not yet been diagnosed with Alzheimers and he seemed normal until the sudden and combative reality shift.

So my question is: How can I trust a prophet? And how is a prophet different from a king? I know that prophets are not supposed to lead us astray, but isn't that an ipse dixit? I also know that we can pray to know the truth, but sometimes I am dead wrong with my interpretation of the spirit. I'm now scared to follow any one man.

[Guest tbaird22]

Faith. Have it.

[pam]

I'm really not sure what mental illness has to do with prophets or kings.

[blackknight5k]

I'm really not sure what mental illness has to do with prophets or kings.

There are plenty of people out there who would argue that "visions" are caused by mental illness or brain tumors or something. These are also the same people who wave away "near death experiences" as "tricks of the brain" etc. etc. They make a good point, how do you know if someone out there is really receiving revelation from God or are just hearing random voices in their heads?

Now, tbaird22 got it right - though maybe a little harshly. We need to have faith to believe them, though how does one gain faith? Through prayer, scripture study, and personal revelation. I know that I have received answers for my prayers and personal revelation plenty of times in my life, as have most members of the church. Now, does that make us all mentally ill? I sure hope not...

[pam]

Okay, I now understand where the OP was coming from. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[sevenwinds]

There are plenty of people out there who would argue that "visions" are caused by mental illness or brain tumors or something. These are also the same people who wave away "near death experiences" as "tricks of the brain" etc. etc. They make a good point, how do you know if someone out there is really receiving revelation from God or are just hearing random voices in their heads?

Now, tbaird22 got it right - though maybe a little harshly. We need to have faith to believe them, though how does one gain faith? Through prayer, scripture study, and personal revelation. I know that I have received answers for my prayers and personal revelation plenty of times in my life, as have most members of the church. Now, does that make us all mentally ill? I sure hope not...

Ok, here's the scenario I'm concerned about. A current prophet has a vision to gather in Jackson County. What if the prophet is mentally ill beginning on that day and gives us incorrect information? I was hoping for more than the answer, faith. Is there no more of an answer? Besides personal prayer, is there a mechanism in action for the quorum of the twelve to protect the body of the church against a mentally ill prophet?

[blackknight5k]

The lord will not allow a Prophet to lead his church astray - now what that means I'm not exactly clear on, but I do believe it contains in it "false prophecies to gather in far away places".

[pam]

I kind of look at it this way. The Prophet's counselors and the twelve are all called as prophets, seers and revelators. I think that's for a reason. Should a prophet become incapacitated, they can step in to assist or take over the responsibilities of the Prophet.

[rameumptom]

The Church hierarchy has checks and balances. The prophet brings forth a concept as doctrine, it must be approved by the councils of the Church, starting with the First Presidency and Twelve Apostles.

When both Presidents Kimball and Benson became ill at the end of their lives, the Church was basically run by the counselors. Whenever Pres Benson would have lucid moments, his counselors would immediately go to his side to discuss issues, etc. But that check and balance system was still in place.

[MarginOfError]

I'll agree to the possibility of one of the Church leaders getting dementia and saying some loopy things...I think we've witnessed it in recent years even...but the probability of 15 such people going completely loopy when they're the recipients of the medical care I'm sure our leaders get is pretty small.

[Blackmarch]

Hi,

I've been strongly committed to the idea of a prophet for decades and have been taught the idea since I can remember. However, over the last many years, I've worked closely with the elderly and I have been absolutely stunned by the many mental problems they exhibit - years before their death. Then I started thinking that maybe this is one reason of many why Americans don't like kings.

Example, I had one patient make up a whole conversation we never had. The scary part was that he had not yet been diagnosed with Alzheimers and he seemed normal until the sudden and combative reality shift.

So my question is: How can I trust a prophet? And how is a prophet different from a king? I know that prophets are not supposed to lead us astray, but isn't that an ipse dixit? I also know that we can pray to know the truth, but sometimes I am dead wrong with my interpretation of the spirit. I'm now scared to follow any one man.

there's been an apostle or two that have seemed out of it due to old age or illness... however it was interesting hearing from the others that on important matters he always made the right decision.

THe trick to this problem is not really directly trusting the prophets themselves, but one must get onto the path of trusting the spirit.. through which one can trust the Lord's servants.

[RipplecutBuddha]

It comes down to our testimony. If we truly believe this is the kingdom of God on earth, If we believe that Christ is at the head of this organization, then we can trust Christ to keep his chosen servants up to the task as long as he needs them.

What needs to be remembered even at this stage is that it is our individual duty to confirm the words of the prophet through personal prayer. Only when the Holy Ghost tells us the prophet speaks the truth can we really trust them. After all, every prophet God has called has said so in one way or another.

[sevenwinds]

The lord will not allow a Prophet to lead his church astray - now what that means I'm not exactly clear on, but I do believe it contains in it "false prophecies to gather in far away places".

I've read this somewhere... where is it?

[Wingnut]

I've read this somewhere... where is it?

Official Declaration 1

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

[Guest saintish]

Is OD 1 the only place that is found? I thought it was in D&C somewhere too. Just to play devils advocate, anyone else see it as a little suspicious that this is from the declaration that fundamentally changed the church and ended a practice that many believed was essential for their salvation?

[Wingnut]

Is OD 1 the only place that is found? I thought it was in D&C somewhere too.

Just to play semantics...The OD1 is part of the D&C.

Just to play devils advocate, anyone else see it as a little suspicious that this is from the declaration that fundamentally changed the church and ended a practice that many believed was essential for their salvation?

Okay, and the prophet is telling them that it's not essential to their salvation. What's the problem?

[Guest saintish]

Technically yes, OD1 is part of D&C but i thought the Phase was found elsewhere in the scriptures as well.

the Problem is OD 1 is basically saying: you are no longer to practice polygamy eventhough it is an eternal principal and nessisary for salvation and oh by the way dont think i'm doing this on my own or that i am a false prophet because the Lord wont let me lead you astray

now if it was said before or elsewhere that a Prophet will never lead the church astray its a little different.

[Guest tbaird22]

I dont think polygamy was necessary for salvation seeing as only certain families were called to do it. I think it was more of a calling.

[Wingnut]

you are no longer to practice polygamy eventhough it is an eternal principal and nessisary for salvation

But that's not true. Eternal marriage is necessary for salvation. Plural marriage is not.

[Blackmarch]

Technically yes, OD1 is part of D&C but i thought the Phase was found elsewhere in the scriptures as well.

the Problem is OD 1 is basically saying: you are no longer to practice polygamy eventhough it is an eternal principal and nessisary for salvation and oh by the way dont think i'm doing this on my own or that i am a false prophet because the Lord wont let me lead you astray

now if it was said before or elsewhere that a Prophet will never lead the church astray its a little different.

actually it says that the were the prophet were to try to mislead the church, he would be removed, swiftly... and you can find sentiments like that in the scriptures, The "The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray" is his intrepretation of that concept.

It also says that we are to stop practicing polygamy by our own choice or that had we not stopped it that we would be bound and stopped forcibly by the goverment from being able to use the temples at all...

in which case had that happened the only way to alter that outcome having chosen not to end polygamy would be to rebel against the United States, IE go to war.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Blackmarch

[rex8499]

Is a prophet the prophet until he dies? If he was completely mentally gone, and continued to live for years, would the church replace him or just wait until he died?

[pam]

There has not been a Prophet yet that has been replaced before they passed away. Even during severe health problems, the counselors and the twelve have stepped in to keep the church functioning.

[Eyewebmaster]

We don't know what is the mind of the Lord. Prophet we're raise by our creator and I know for sure they are instrument in making the word of God be made know unto us. Their are many health struggle for these Prophet but I know they are raised by God until they will accomplished their great purposes.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Eyewebmaster