Scouting: Is this normal with LDS troops?

[Backroads]

So I had a lady call my office today with some questions. One of them was an "is this normal?" question.

She and her family are not LDS; however, her son attends a ward-based troop. From what she told me, the Scoutmaster keeps telling her son to read the Book of Mormon in order to complete a Scouting award. I assume he means one of the religious awards. However, while the family clearly has nothing against Mormons, the kid is just not interested in reading the book and is feeling quite pressured.

Well, I gave her some advice, suggested she ask for other options for the religious award.

But I found it rather odd and, well, offensive and pushy that someone would do that.

Is that... required for your average LDS-sponsored troop no matter the religion?

[Vort]

Is that... required for your average LDS-sponsored troop no matter the religion?

No.

[applepansy]

Is that... required for your average LDS-sponsored troop no matter the religion?

Regardless of which religion sponsors the troop there is a religious requirement. The Scoutmaster is unaware (didn't listen in training? no training?) that just because the child is a member of an LDS sponsored troop doesn't mean he has to complete the LDS requirement. But, the child does need to complete the requirement for his own religion.

"The religious emblems programs are created by the various religious groups to encourage youth to grow stronger in their faith. The religious groups—not the Boy Scouts of America—have created the religious emblems programs themselves.

The Boy Scouts of America has approved of these programs and allows the recognition to be worn on the official uniform, but each religious organization develops and administers its own program." From BSA FAQ

EDIT: I just looked at your profile and see you are in Utah and work for the BSA. Why are you asking us here?

Edited June 20, 2011 by applepansy

[Backroads]

I figured as much. All the non-demonational troops don't seem to force a particular religion for the religious award. Then again, I've worked only in COPE, pure entertainment, and a very technical setting with it. I'm not sure at all if the LDS variation of Scouting has tweaked the requirements.

I'm going to figure the Scoutmaster was never properly trained on that.

Random more...

I remember a situation where a Pagan kid had to pretty much come up with his own award requirements and get them approved...

[Backroads]

EDIT: I just looked at your profile and see you are in Utah and work for the BSA. Why are you asking us here?

I did say in my other post (I believe whilst you were editing yours) that I have only worked in certain sections of the BSA.

Another problem is that living/working in Utah with the BSA means that regular Boy Scouts and LDS Boy Scouts has an extremely skewed balance. It's darn near impossible to get a correct perspective of correct policies when most people happen to be LDS and are working more from tradition of how it's done in LDS circles than by actual guidelines. See, LDS Scouts does have a few tweaks that make it different from regular Boy Scouts.

Frankly, it's hard to tell what's a legitimate LDS tweak, what's just culture, etc. Most of the field staff at my office work purely from an LDS perspective.

Does that at all define my motives?

[skippy740]

I will add that I'm a Asst. cubmaster and Asst Webelos leader in my ward. I have a few non-baptized boys in my den. One actually comes regularly.

I have yet to meet with the parents, but I will do so to "get the lay of the land". But one of the things I would encourage (but not "push") would be the Faith in God award, along with the Webelos achievement tasks that can be done at home.

I would like to see my involvement in the cub scouts to help bring some of these boys unto baptism... but it has to be done in the right way.

These boys are in inactive families, or part-member families, so there is a connection with the church.

If there was no connection with the church, I'd want to find out more about the church they may be attending and encourage the appropriate religious award. Any activity for faith in God is good... and if they can have good experiences within our buildings and with their leaders (I hope), then I have fulfilled my calling.

I also remember that on my mission, you can't teach or impose religious instruction on minors without parental consent. So you'd have to be careful there.

[Backroads]

I will add that I'm a Asst. cubmaster and Asst Webelos leader in my ward. I have a few non-baptized boys in my den. One actually comes regularly.

I have yet to meet with the parents, but I will do so to "get the lay of the land". But one of the things I would encourage (but not "push") would be the Faith in God award, along with the Webelos achievement tasks that can be done at home.

I would like to see my involvement in the cub scouts to help bring some of these boys unto baptism... but it has to be done in the right way.

These boys are in inactive families, or part-member families, so there is a connection with the church.

If there was no connection with the church, I'd want to find out more about the church they may be attending and encourage the appropriate religious award. Any activity for faith in God is good... and if they can have good experiences within our buildings and with their leaders (I hope), then I have fulfilled my calling.

I also remember that on my mission, you can't teach or impose religious instruction on minors without parental consent. So you'd have to be careful there.

And it can be a fine way of fellowshipping, but when you have some forceful Scoutmaster who wants it done the Mormon way or the highway, that's when it gets pretty darn ugly.

[applepansy]

I did say in my other post (I believe whilst you were editing yours) that I have only worked in certain sections of the BSA.

Another problem is that living/working in Utah with the BSA means that regular Boy Scouts and LDS Boy Scouts has an extremely skewed balance. It's darn near impossible to get a correct perspective of correct policies when most people happen to be LDS and are working more from tradition of how it's done in LDS circles than by actual guidelines. See, LDS Scouts does have a few tweaks that make it different from regular Boy Scouts.

Frankly, it's hard to tell what's a legitimate LDS tweak, what's just culture, etc. Most of the field staff at my office work purely from an LDS perspective.

Does that at all define my motives?

yes it does. thank you.

But I'm surprised that even those who work from an LDS perspective don't understand this requirement. when I worked in scouting and again when my husband worked in scouting it seemed everyone at BSA understood this requirement. It was almost as if it was over emphasized so that the exact situation you ran into didn't happen. I'm actually surprised the LDS scout leader didn't understand this issue.

[skippy740]

Yeah... Scouting is kind of a "mixed bag". You're not just a leader within the church. You're a leader within the community - and need to have a community mindset, perhaps a little more than a church mindset.

[applepansy]

Yeah... Scouting is kind of a "mixed bag". You're not just a leader within the church. You're a leader within the community - and need to have a community mindset, perhaps a little more than a church mindset.

Most definitely!!!

[Backroads]

yes it does. thank you.

But I'm surprised that even those who work from an LDS perspective don't understand this requirement. when I worked in scouting and again when my husband worked in scouting it seemed everyone at BSA understood this requirement. It was almost as if it was over emphasized so that the exact situation you ran into didn't happen. I'm actually surprised the LDS scout leader didn't understand this issue.

Which is why it surprised me so much. I do think you have something there with the training. Somehow it just didn't make it down to him, or he doesn't care.

[MarginOfError]

Scoutmaster FAIL

[cj06]

most religions have 1 thing in common and that would be the HOLY BIBLE , even us Mormons use it !

as for scouting there are so many stories in the bible that would be a great basis for bringing all kids together for the religious award !

[MarginOfError]

most religions have 1 thing in common and that would be the HOLY BIBLE , even us Mormons use it !

as for scouting there are so many stories in the bible that would be a great basis for bringing all kids together for the religious award !

Except for the Muslim, Buddhist, and Shaman members of my troop.

[Vort]

Except for the Muslim, Buddhist, and Shaman members of my troop.

You have Muslims and Buddhists in your Scout troop? All Muslim Scouts I have ever known have been part of a Muslim-majority or Muslim-only troop. I have never heard of Muslim kids joining an LDS troop.

[Backroads]

Except for the Muslim, Buddhist, and Shaman members of my troop.

I've seen troops with a huge mix of religions, including Wiccan, other pagan, and Buddhist.

[MarginOfError]

You have Muslims and Buddhists in your Scout troop? All Muslim Scouts I have ever known have been part of a Muslim-majority or Muslim-only troop. I have never heard of Muslim kids joining an LDS troop.

I don't work with an LDS troop. The troop I work with is chartered to an Episcopal church, but we have no youth from that church in the troop at the moment*. We draw most of our recruits from 3 or 4 packs that are sponsored by churches, schools, and community centers. These recruit primarily through word of mouth. Currently, the religions in my troop that I'm aware of are Episcopal, Presbyterian, Methodist, Mormon, Buddhist, Jewish, Orthodox Jewish**, and Muslim (and possibly one of the Indian religions). We also have a couple boys that claim agnosticism or atheism, but we don't talk about that too loudly.

* The previous rector was on the verge of kicking us out. Then she got busted for embezzlement. In her time, she nearly bankrupted the parish and lost a large number of the congregation. The new rector is trying hard to rebuild and has stated that he wants to keep the scout troop because in a few years, some of the children that are currently in attendance will be old enough for scouting. Regardless, he's thrilled to see so many youth in our troop (we recruited 21 new scouts this year) and is very supportive of the religious emblems program for all the various religions. Not surprising since this rector flies the rainbow flag under the US flag and the Episcopal flag outside the church.

** Not strictly orthodox, though, as they let their son come camping with us on the Sabbath. Much like me, however, I think they've weighed the benefits of strict adherence against the benefits of the scouting experience and decided their son stands to gain in this circumstance.

[cj06]

Except for the Muslim, Buddhist, and Shaman members of my troop.

watch your back , dont need another FORT HOOD incident !

[CaptainEm]

Yikes. Does this happen a lot in Utah?

[ptsmith86]

I've seen troops with a huge mix of religions, including Wiccan, other pagan, and Buddhist.

Actually the BSA "requirement" states that you ..."must believe in a higher power". It doesn't require the "holy bible" or any other book. It's absolutely up to the boy and their family how they meet the requirement and is the one thing that the scout master does not sign off on. The boys religious leader or parents sign the requirement when it is completed.

If you have issues with the souct master and the program, I suggest talking with the troop/pack leadership. If you can't make progress with them or come to some resolution, go to either the council, or direct to BSA HQ with an email. I'm quite sure the troop will come around to a workable solution.

I'm curious though, the religious emblem is not a required "badge", it is optional. The only requirement that I know of is a small faith requirement Webelos.

YiS,

Paul

Eagle.