The Worst Thing About Being Homosexual

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 2 2004, 11:54 PM

LOL....discussion curvette...not sermon. Debate even...but not sermon.

If you want a sermon...check in with the GAs talks...I'm sure they have at least one.

And who says I don't know gay people in my own circle and neighborhood.?

An LDS board would be exactly where such a discussion/debate should be found...why not? Aren't we to learn all there is from our best sources? Wouldn't it be nice for people to be able to come here and learn some facts they could use to better understand the doctrine surrounding this sin?

The world uses every media, and spot they can to promote it as normal and acceptable...why shouldn't we use every means at our disposal to fight the lie? hmmm?

I was referring to Ray's original post. There was no debate or discussion there. It was a sermon.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Ray+Mar 2 2004, 05:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ray @ Mar 2 2004, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Maureen@Mar 2 2004, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by -Ray@Mar 2 2004, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by -Maureen@Mar 2 2004, 05:06 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Ray@Mar 2 2004, 03:49 PM

I can see a lot of disadvantages to being homosexual.  For instance, if you’re homosexual:

2) You’ll never have children

It is impossible for people who are homosexual to have their own children. If a homosexual goes through the procreation experience with a member of the opposite sex, those children are the children of a male and female, and not of homosexual parents. Two homosexuals may assume the role of parents, if given the opportunity, but that opportunity will not always be given, and they will still never have any of their own children.

That can also be said for infertile heterosexual couples. Are you implying that these kind of parents (ie. the ones who adopt, or use surrogates) are not true parents because they did not actually give birth themselves and/or the child is not genetically related to them. I'm sure this kind of parenting is not less rewarding. There is more to parenting than just giving birth and passing on your genetics. Ray, you of all people should know that. Do you not consider yourself a father to your wife's sons?

M.

I consider myself to be in the role of a parent, as every other parent is in that role on Earth. None of us have our own children, because we are all the children of God. If we do well in our role as parents on Earth, we may be given the privilege of having our own children, but none of us can claim that privilege yet. This is only a test, to see if we will do everything that God has commanded.

So then it is a disadvantage for a homosexual couple to assume the role of parents but for you it is a privilege. Why is it not a disadvantage for you and a privilege for the homosexual couple?

M.

I think you're misunderstanding what I was trying to say.

I was trying to say that God will never give homosexual couples the ability to have their own children. On Earth, children are only born to heterosexual couples, and that's the way it is in heaven too. Except that in heaven, nobody will let homosexuals take care of their children. The people who do that on Earth are going against the counsel of God, but God will not always tolerate this. In fact, He's not very happy about it right now.

Once they get that cloning thing down, all it will take is YOURSELF to have kids!

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 3 2004, 06:18 AM

With attitudes like Ray's, I know which church I will never find a homosexual. It's either homophobia or elitism.

Do you understand the biblical term...drunken? It refers to 'excesses'...too much freedom from moral restraints of every kind.

Our world right now is drunken...they have abandoned every level of morals put forth for millenia...(of course we are not the first generation...but we will be the last..) which totally destroys the balance necessary for 'life' to continue on forever in peace and safety.

How many feel really safe these days? Why? Because murder is as common as the gay life style... both are the result of rationalizing everything into acceptance...

Talk to a young gang member and listen to his reasoning for what he does or one of the murderers at the highschools.....then listen to a gay and hear the same thought pattern allowing him to do what he does...and feel justified.

The world is rocking to and fro like a drunken man....

[Tr2]

I'm going to nod my head and pretend that I understand what you are saying.

The only thing you seemed to communicate is that homosexuality is equal to murder, gang life, and getting drunk.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 3 2004, 11:14 AM

I'm going to nod my head and pretend that I understand what you are saying.

The only thing you seemed to communicate is that homosexuality is equal to murder, gang life, and getting drunk.

They are all based upon the same kind of reasoning/rationalizations. I didn't say they were equal to each other....

You don't seem to comprehend very well...

[Guest lt]

I only have one thought about homosexuals, that is parenting should be left up to

a man and a woman like god intended.........And no...I don't wanna hear some holier than though say I hate gays....

because my mom is gay, my sister is gay, my cousin is gay and a best friend from H.S. is...However I know from eperience and from being around allot of kids that also grew up with a gay parent....

1.) There kids resented it and it made there lives hell, very few gay/les couples keep there lives secret, not realizing there actions may affect there children.

2.) Some of my friends ended up sexual confused because they were taught its normal to love the same sex and that most everyone does but wont admit to it...( what a load of garbage)

My favorite is when a friend said my mom said its in the genes, she was born with it...Do you think I'm gay? I died laughing.....

This is only the tip of the iceburg stay in the closet, its better for your children. It's fine if you wanna live that way, but others dont need your misery.

[AFDaw]

Wouldn't identical twins, one who's gay and one who's not also disprove the "gene" theory?

[porterrockwell]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 3 2004, 07:18 AM

With attitudes like Ray's, I know which church I will never find a homosexual. It's either homophobia or elitism.

Actually it's neither, it's called worthiness and obedience. Homophobia is a fat load of crap. So then God is a homophobe? A "practicing" homosexual cannot be baptized into the one true church without forsaking his existing lifestyle. So you are right, you will not find a homosexual worthy(morally) to be a part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Homosexuality is wrong in any account, it is a dark, disgusting practice that prevents the growth of the Kingdom of God. It disables the family. There is a difference between an infertile couple and one that is HOMOSEXUAL. That is a blaitantly blind stab at preserving the image of a gay couple as comparable to the likes of a heterosexual relationship. Worldly standards are inferior to that of God's and are derived from carnal minds. The homosexual lifestyle SHOULD NEVER be accepted, nor promoted, nor instated as "normal". Nonetheless, that does not mean that I don't love everyone that struggles with this devlish temptation. I only wish to see them return to their Heavenly Father having been obedient to his will and having concquered that which enslaved them and prevented them from living worthily.

[Guest lt]

No....because Identical twins are not exactly a like in that manner...only in looks and voice and stuff.

People are not born gay, they did a study on it and most of the people admitted to several things....

1.) not having a close relationship with the same sex growing up.

2.) having to close of a relationship growing up.

either of these to a far exstreme are a few of the causes. My sister it was choice.....My mother was raped and hates men............My cousin saids its just a sex thing, woman give more than men sexualy.....

so...my thoughts are.....people either become gay out of choice...becauses of abuse....or there selfish sexualy...just my thoughts. It doesnt make them bad people though......

[Ray]

curvette,

A sermon is a lecture, speech, talk, discourse, and address. What’s wrong with a sermon? Do you want me to wait until you answer that question before I say anything else? Is that the type of conversation that you’d like to have on the internet? Can’t I share my own thoughts about things without waiting to see what you think about them? My very first sentence in my “sermon” was about what I see as disadvantages to being homosexual, and if you didn’t want to read a post about my thoughts about this issue, you didn’t have to read it, and you certainly didn’t have to post a negative comment about the topic of my choice. Maybe you need to go take another nap.

Btw, Portland Oregon has just become another city that sanctions homosexual marriage, and this is the city that I live in. Someday, hopefully very soon, our Savior will return to Earth and straighten out all of this nonsense, but until He does, I’ll keep doing what I can to make this world a better place.

p.s. I never said that I hate people who are homosexual. I only hate that they choose to engage in homosexual activity, because no good can come from that choice and I don’t enjoy considering the idea that people are making the choice to do something so wicked. It's about more than sexual activity. I abhor the sin, and not the person.

[sgallan]

**** 1) You’ll never truly know the opposite sex ****

LOL.... I have been married to just one member of the opposite sex for a number of years and there are days I STILL don't know her.

*** People who are homosexual are depriving themselves of that opportunity.***

Or curse.

*** 2) You’ll never have children ****

This is BS. Perhaps in a purely biological way. But you try telling ANY parent of adoptive children that they really do not have children. You'll probably hear some interesting language. This is a silly argument.

*** 3) You’ll never have all of the other blessings that are available to the other children of God who are obedient to God. ****

Most homosexuals don't really like the God you worship and would rather do without what they would consider to be pyrrhic blessings. I agree with them on this one.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Ray@Mar 3 2004, 02:51 PM

Maybe you need to go take another nap.

I'm not tired. Your post seemed to be addressed to some unnamed homosexual as you began each phrase with: "You" (will never enjoy the blessings that I, an obedient heterosexual will, etc) You seem to think that homosexuals don't know that life is going to be harder for them in a world geared towards heterosexuality. I think most homosexuals are smart enough to know that their life would be easier if they were heterosexual, but it's not quite so simple for many of them. It's a moot argument. I believe that there is a small segment of humans who are simply same sex attracted, you don't. To those people, it's like extolling the virtues of having legs to a legless person. Gee, they'd love to have legs, but golly, you're just luckier. Bummer!

[Ray]

I used the word “You” to help anyone who might be able to put themselves in the mindset of a homosexual person. It’s like saying, if “You” do this, this will happen, or this is one of the disadvantages that I can see if You make that choice. If I had realized it would have been that difficult for anyone to know what I was trying to say, I would have tried to clarify what I meant. Oh well, I’ll try to do better next time, but realize that when I write something on this message board, I’m doing so to help “Anyone” who reads what I write, because for all I know, this might be read by someone who doesn’t know a lot of things that I know.

Btw, I also know that there are some people in this world who are same sex attracted. You just didn’t know that I know that. There are a lot of other things that I know that you don’t know that I know too, so try not to make any assumptions about what I do and don’t know from now on, okay? I may even know some things that You have never thought about.

There’s one more point I’d like to clarify here too, even though The Traveler could express these thoughts a lot better than I can.

People are not forced into being homosexuals. Do you realize that? People may have “natural” sexual thoughts and desires, but nobody is forced to act on any of those desires. I think that if more people realized the consequences of their actions, they would make more of the right choices, including the choice about what to do with their sexual impulses.

For instance, if a man feels “naturally” inclined to want to sleep with lots of women, does that mean that he should? Should a man do what he is naturally inclined to do, regardless of the consequences? What makes a homosexual desire any different? If it’s good, do it, but not just because it feels good. The line between what is right and what is wrong needs to be drawn and clearly understood. The excuse that it’s in Your nature shouldn’t be a valid excuse.

And FYI, if I knew that being homosexual was a good way to be, I might choose to be a homosexual too, or maybe bisexual, but I really don’t see what good that would do, and I can see a LOT of disadvantages.

[porterrockwell]

Originally posted by Ray@Mar 3 2004, 06:32 PM

I might choose to be a homosexual too, or maybe bisexual, but I really don’t see what good that would do, and I can see a LOT of disadvantages.

A lot of "disadvantages"?? Disadvantage is an Eternal UNDERSTATEMENT! Try this one on for size...damnation(inability to progress), no family(can't reproduce in that state), the LORD SAID NO, and...oh wait, what reason have we to judge our by but that one simple precept...the Lord said No. Pretty simple. And for all of you worldly thinkers, if you want REAL reasons why homosexual doesn't work, that is the only reason I will give you, because it is the only reason one should need.

[sgallan]

***** A lot of "disadvantages"?? Disadvantage is an Eternal UNDERSTATEMENT! Try this one on for size...damnation(inability to progress), no family(can't reproduce in that state), the LORD SAID NO, and...oh wait, what reason have we to judge our by but that one simple precept...the Lord said No. Pretty simple. And for all of you worldly thinkers, if you want REAL reasons why homosexual doesn't work, that is the only reason I will give you, because it is the only reason one should need. *****

And as I said earlier; neither many homosexuals I know, nor myself, would want anything to do with such a God. Just another mean version of God from my viewpoint. Give me ANYTHING but that eternity. Because for me it would suck. Forever. I guess I am damned if I do, and damned if I don't. Might as well live it up now.

[sgallan]

**** People are not forced into being homosexuals. Do you realize that? People may have “natural” sexual thoughts and desires, but nobody is forced to act on any of those desires. I think that if more people realized the consequences of their actions, they would make more of the right choices, including the choice about what to do with their sexual impulses. ****

True. But I would be miserable if I had to live life in a marraige situation with a male. I am a flaming heterosexual. I could never get used to it. So if I were gay, a marraige with a women would suck. So what are my options? Well I could marry a member of the opposite sex and live a miserable lie. I could live a celibate and lonely life, devoid of the type of love I currently share with my spouse. I could chuck the religion. Or I could get it over with and committ suicide. There are plenty of folk who choose all of the above options. In this day and age the ones who choose option three, after the initial angst, seem the most content. The ones who choose the last option are of course just dead.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Scott --

True. But I would be miserable if I had to live life in a marraige situation with a male. I am a flaming heterosexual. I could never get used to it. So if I were gay, a marraige with a women would suck. So what are my options? Well I could marry a member of the opposite sex and live a miserable lie. I could live a celibate and lonely life, devoid of the type of love I currently share with my spouse. I could chuck the religion. Or I could get it over with and committ suicide. There are plenty of folk who choose all of the above options. In this day and age the ones who choose option three, after the initial angst, seem the most content. The ones who choose the last option are of course just dead.

The problem is that this logic could just as easily apply to a person whose default sexuality is of one of those varieties that even you aren't willing to accept. Ultimately, there comes a point where a person's sexuality is so screwed up that the only honorable thing to do is to suck it up, repress the drives he feels, and live a "celibate and lonely life."

The alternative, as you pointed out, is along the lines of King Geoge V's comment, upon learning that one of his courtiers liked little boys: "I always thought people like that shot themselves."

[sgallan]

PD -

I am talking about homosexuals here. I am not talking about the endless variables that are part of anything. Try to stay on topic. Homosexuals need to just be what they are, and live their lives. And now that society has changed to where it is relatively safe to come out of the closet there is no need for them to stay in it. Now if they are true believing LDS homosexuals (remember stay focused), the choices are pretty much how I laid them out. Otherwise, after that initial youthful angst of exceptance, homosexuals seem to do quite well these days. Are even a marketing force.

Duck, are you becoming borderline homophobic per chance? I sense almost a disgust and contempt. Where does this derive from? And from you of all people. I am rather astonished. But I guess we all have our "things". And before you get all political on me suggesting I am using "tactics". I am doing no such thing (and I do not lie). We have conversed an awful lot. I have given you the benefit of the doubt. It took a long time before I started to sense this. I find it highly disturbing. One of those things which has me lose my faith in humanity from time to time. Really.

[porterrockwell]

Originally posted by sgallan@Mar 3 2004, 08:49 PM

***** A lot of "disadvantages"?? Disadvantage is an Eternal UNDERSTATEMENT! Try this one on for size...damnation(inability to progress), no family(can't reproduce in that state), the LORD SAID NO, and...oh wait, what reason have we to judge our by but that one simple precept...the Lord said No. Pretty simple. And for all of you worldly thinkers, if you want REAL reasons why homosexual doesn't work, that is the only reason I will give you, because it is the only reason one should need. *****

And as I said earlier; neither many homosexuals I know, nor myself, would want anything to do with such a God. Just another mean version of God from my viewpoint. Give me ANYTHING but that eternity. Because for me it would suck. Forever. I guess I am damned if I do, and damned if I don't. Might as well live it up now.

I find it highly disturbing. One of those things which has me lose my faith in humanity from time to time. Really.

Well, good, because with that attitude and that decision, you won't ever dwell with God. Instead you will adhere to the Telestial Kingdom with all the Homosexuals and nay sayers of all sorts that you think you should just "live it up". Also, you have no grasp or concept of humanity. Humanity, true humanity, is of God. By which I mean living the principles ordinances, and standards of his will. He who cannot come to know the TRUE NATURE OF GOD cannot know himself, nor those that dwell within "humanity".

I didn't want to bring this up, because it is very, very personal and one of the most sickening times of my life. About a month before I turned in my papers for my mission, I was up early morning trying to find something to watch and I came to this MTV program about "coming out", one of them was mormon so it was very interesting to hear his story. Shortly after it concluded I got a very sick, disturbing feeling in the pit of my stomach. It was like some switch had been flipped in my head. All of sudden, guys on TV, in magazines, everywhere looked different. It was like a blanket of darkness had engulfed me. I was depressed, it felt like someone was dragging me into something that I didn't want, like I was being sucked into sin. I knew what was going on, and to make matters worse, my whole family was headed on vacation, leaving me alone, to fight Satan...and undoubtedly the most unexpected roadblock of my life. Images were all of sudden coming to my mind, as much as I tried to fight them it was like a broken record. I felt as though someone was trying to break me down. From the start of that week I must have prayed 100 times a day, and I also fasted for a week, drinking only a few small cups of water a day so that my body wouldn't shut down. The whole week my mind was fixed on what I was "becoming" and why this was happening. And also, what it would turn me into, the Family I would have no chance to have, the rejection of my lifestyle I would feel from myself and my family, the disappointment I would cause those who loved me so much. ANd last but not least, the loss of opportunity I would have to enter the Celestial Kingdom, sealed for eternity to the woman the Lord had in store for me. I later talked to my bishop and got a blessing, soon after I realized that the Lord had allowed me to be tested. He had given me the opportunity to fight real evil, to CHOOSE what I wanted. I could have made a choice and just "accepted" that it was the way things were "supposed to be". But I know that is not what the Lord intended, me to be, nor was I "programed" that way. So I guess what I am saying is that I DO UNDERSTAND that "other side of the coin"(for lack of a better phrase), I rejected it, because I am not nor will I EVER BE. That is not the Lord's will, so don't tell me that it is anything more than at times a temptation, or for people like me a trial. You have a choice, and I made the right one.

[Guest Starsky]

And as I said earlier; neither many homosexuals I know, nor myself, would want anything to do with such a God. Just another mean version of God from my viewpoint. Give me ANYTHING but that eternity. Because for me it would suck. Forever. I guess I am damned if I do, and damned if I don't. Might as well live it up now.

Well now...that isn't the point now is it? I mean...it is who God will accept and reject....LOL

So indeed, you may as well live it up now...because this short little life will soon be over and well....you do know the rest of the story.

[sgallan]

Well, good, because with that attitude and that decision, you won't ever dwell with God. ****

Good. I don't like your God.

*** Instead you will adhere to the Telestial Kingdom with all the Homosexuals and nay sayers of all sorts that you think you should just "live it up". ****

Better yet.

*** Also, you have no grasp or concept of humanity. Humanity, true humanity, is of God. By which I mean living the principles ordinances, and standards of his will. He who cannot come to know the TRUE NATURE OF GOD cannot know himself, nor those that dwell within "humanity". ****

If what you have is humanity - I'll pass. Really. Because I spend most of my time living it up by helping people. Kids mostly. Being a loving father and husband. All of that. And I'm obviously not anonymous so I can prove a lot of it. But I have sort of come to understand that weird sort of logic the fundamentalist holds (any religion), which says.... good is bad, bad is good, except when it isn't, and vice-versa.

Otherwise, you story does explain some things for me. Good luck with your demons. And I am not being sarcastic when I say this.

[sgallan]

So indeed, you may as well live it up now...because this short little life will soon be over and well....you do know the rest of the story. *****

Yeah, the atoms which make me up will wander on off for eternity. As many already have through out my existance. And you can't prove otherwise.

Otherwise, if by some chance it were like you said (and I can't prove otherwise), give me one of those lower kingdoms. Much like the Islamic God, and the fundamentalist Christian God, this one doesn't really seem to like very many of his kids. Just another brutal diety who will discard most of his children..... but he loves you. Odd though, because a long time ago now I actually converted to this religion because I thought perhaps you had a more rationale, and yes perhaps even loving version of God. While I never really believed (I tried really hard though), it still seemed logical enough at first. But in the end it was just another vicious God (defintion). I was rather disappointed. Really.

[Ray]

People who don't know that God is worthy of our worship just don't know God. There are a slew of misunderstandings out there.

I also want to bring out the point that no matter how many other good things people do, if people do something wrong, it is still wrong. And for those of you who still don't realize it, homosexuality is wrong.

[Rodney]

Scary, isn't it? How fast things seem to be changing--social change is always the scariest. Especially, when you've gotten so comfortable in your own little niche--when you figure YOU are living the way life was meant to be lived and anybody else who thinks otherwise is just plain wrong--sinfully wrong!! Ten years from now, many will be wondering what all the uproar was about--though I must admit, I DO faintly remember that old KSL radio sports announcer (James, was it?) screaming that a Molotov cocktail had been thrown onto the University of Wyoming basketball court...

[Tr2]

A "practicing" homosexual cannot be baptized into the one true church without forsaking his existing lifestyle. So you are right, you will not find a homosexual worthy(morally) to be a part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

So you want to merely change the behavior? All you want is for the apperance to be cleaned up. It is all about image to you and your church. When people, not an image, become your priority then I will consider mormonism to be a good thing. It's too bad that Jesus extended His hand to sinners, but LDS won't unless specific conditions are met. Some "true" church.

Nonetheless, that does not mean that I don't love everyone that struggles with this devlish temptation.

It's obvious that you don't have the first clue to homosexuality. All it is, is a sin to you.

I only wish to see them return to their Heavenly Father having been obedient to his will and having concquered that which enslaved them and prevented them from living worthily.

Again, it's a performance/apperance-only thing with you.

Actually it's neither, it's called worthiness and obedience

The bible teaches you get your worthiness from your identity in Christ.

I guess you're all about the self effort. From your post I failed to see how Christ is at all important in your life. Your values are putting on a good show so you will be considered worthy. How can somebody claim to know Christ and still have that attitude?