Leaving The Saints?

[MBASS]

Just wondering if anyone had read the book Leaving the Saints? I was thinking about picking it up and giving it a read. Just for info. My friends think its blasphemy, I think its knowledge!? Any thoughts?

[Jason]

Go for it. Give us a book review when you're done.

[StrawberryFields]

The choice is yours.

What are you looking for anti-mormon material? Save yourself some $$ and search the web, you will find it there.

[MBASS]

No, Im not searching for anti mormon stuff. Im just interested in what this woman has to say after seeing her on Oprah. I think Ill see if the library has it. Dont want to spend $!!!

[StrawberryFields]

In all fainess I have not read this. I took a look at this and formed my opinion.

[StrawberryFields]

Here is something interesting...

Martha Beck

Martha Beck is the best-selling author of Leaving the Saints (2005), The Joy Diet (2003), Finding Your Own North Star (2001), and Expecting Adam (1999). She is a monthly columnist for O, The Oprah Magazine, a renowned national and international speaker, and is the creator of the North Star Method, offering seminars, workshops, and life-coach training to assist participants in connecting with their truest selves and in leading more rewarding and joyful lives. She received her bachelor's, master’s, and Ph.D. degrees from Harvard University, where she won a Danforth Award as one of the university's top teaching fellows, and she has taught international business management and career development at the American Graduate School of International Management. She served as a member of the international board of Special Olympics, and travels worldwide working and speaking on behalf of people with cognitive disabilities and their loved ones. She lives in Phoenix, Arizona with her three teenagers; her partner of ten years, Karen Gerdes, a professor of social work, and their two dogs.

[CaptainTux]

Let me ask this. Are there readily available books written from the lds perspective that are about the same length as hers?

[prisonchaplain]

Just wondering if anyone had read the book Leaving the Saints? I was thinking about picking it up and giving it a read. Just for info. My friends think its blasphemy, I think its knowledge!? Any thoughts?

MBASS AND CAPTTUX, and anyone else interested: If it's an intelligent look at Mormonism from an insider and outsider point of view (and perhaps a better understanding of evangelic Christianity as well) that your looking for, I highly recommend the following:

How Wide the Divide? A Mormon & an Evangelical in Conversation, by Craig L. Blomberg and Stephen E. Robinson.

Blomberg is a professor at Denver Seminary (an Evangelical graduate school), and Robinson is a religion professor at Brigham Young University.

The book is just under 200 pages, but includes over 30 pages of citations. Both authors are direct, but respectful and conciliatory. They make no attempt at ecumenism or compromise of doctrines, but their effort is to faciliatate understanding, not to convert.

I believe my review of this work is till in the book review section. If not, it's on Amazon.com.

[Jason]

Here is something interesting...

Martha Beck

Martha Beck is the best-selling author of Leaving the Saints (2005), The Joy Diet (2003), Finding Your Own North Star (2001), and Expecting Adam (1999). She is a monthly columnist for O, The Oprah Magazine, a renowned national and international speaker, and is the creator of the North Star Method, offering seminars, workshops, and life-coach training to assist participants in connecting with their truest selves and in leading more rewarding and joyful lives. She received her bachelor's, master’s, and Ph.D. degrees from Harvard University, where she won a Danforth Award as one of the university's top teaching fellows, and she has taught international business management and career development at the American Graduate School of International Management. She served as a member of the international board of Special Olympics, and travels worldwide working and speaking on behalf of people with cognitive disabilities and their loved ones. She lives in Phoenix, Arizona with her three teenagers; her partner of ten years, Karen Gerdes, a professor of social work, and their two dogs.

Funny that you bolded the "lesbian" part, and would have us seemingly write her off because of it.

[BenRaines]

Isn't this the daughter of Hugh NIbley? The one that was raised with 10 or 11siblings and never had a word of accusation against her father until he was almost 90 and on his death bed? I guess this is how you make a claim after the person accussed and charged can no longer defend themselves.

I read a couple of articles where she was interviewed. They were good at promoting her book.

Ben Raines

[Palerider]

this sounds interesting......I am warped anyway and love to read anti material.......

[Snow]

I know a little...

I was in the Nibley house numerous times during the time the abuse was alledged to occur. I recently spoke at lenght with Martha's ex brother-in-law. I reviewed the allegations she made and know where she is factually wrong.

I have no idea what really happened but I have zero confidence that she is an accurate reporter of events.

Try this: http://www.fairlds.org/Reviews/Rvw200504.html

[StrawberryFields]

<div class='quotemain'>

Here is something interesting...

Martha Beck

Martha Beck is the best-selling author of Leaving the Saints (2005), The Joy Diet (2003), Finding Your Own North Star (2001), and Expecting Adam (1999). She is a monthly columnist for O, The Oprah Magazine, a renowned national and international speaker, and is the creator of the North Star Method, offering seminars, workshops, and life-coach training to assist participants in connecting with their truest selves and in leading more rewarding and joyful lives. She received her bachelor's, master’s, and Ph.D. degrees from Harvard University, where she won a Danforth Award as one of the university's top teaching fellows, and she has taught international business management and career development at the American Graduate School of International Management. She served as a member of the international board of Special Olympics, and travels worldwide working and speaking on behalf of people with cognitive disabilities and their loved ones. She lives in Phoenix, Arizona with her three teenagers; her partner of ten years, Karen Gerdes, a professor of social work, and their two dogs.

Funny that you bolded the "lesbian" part, and would have us seemingly write her off because of it.

Is THAT what the bolded part means? Thanks for explaining it buddy.

I wonder which came first...her finding her faith or becoming attracted to women??

[Jason]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Here is something interesting...

Martha Beck

Martha Beck is the best-selling author of Leaving the Saints (2005), The Joy Diet (2003), Finding Your Own North Star (2001), and Expecting Adam (1999). She is a monthly columnist for O, The Oprah Magazine, a renowned national and international speaker, and is the creator of the North Star Method, offering seminars, workshops, and life-coach training to assist participants in connecting with their truest selves and in leading more rewarding and joyful lives. She received her bachelor's, master’s, and Ph.D. degrees from Harvard University, where she won a Danforth Award as one of the university's top teaching fellows, and she has taught international business management and career development at the American Graduate School of International Management. She served as a member of the international board of Special Olympics, and travels worldwide working and speaking on behalf of people with cognitive disabilities and their loved ones. She lives in Phoenix, Arizona with her three teenagers; her partner of ten years, Karen Gerdes, a professor of social work, and their two dogs.

Funny that you bolded the "lesbian" part, and would have us seemingly write her off because of it.

Is THAT what the bolded part means? Thanks for explaining it buddy.

I wonder which came first...her finding her faith or becoming attracted to women??

Please don't tell me you're going do discredit her based on her sexual preference. Tell me she's a liar, and prove it like Snow, but don't be petty.

[StrawberryFields]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Here is something interesting...

Martha Beck

Martha Beck is the best-selling author of Leaving the Saints (2005), The Joy Diet (2003), Finding Your Own North Star (2001), and Expecting Adam (1999). She is a monthly columnist for O, The Oprah Magazine, a renowned national and international speaker, and is the creator of the North Star Method, offering seminars, workshops, and life-coach training to assist participants in connecting with their truest selves and in leading more rewarding and joyful lives. She received her bachelor's, master’s, and Ph.D. degrees from Harvard University, where she won a Danforth Award as one of the university's top teaching fellows, and she has taught international business management and career development at the American Graduate School of International Management. She served as a member of the international board of Special Olympics, and travels worldwide working and speaking on behalf of people with cognitive disabilities and their loved ones. She lives in Phoenix, Arizona with her three teenagers; her partner of ten years, Karen Gerdes, a professor of social work, and their two dogs.

Funny that you bolded the "lesbian" part, and would have us seemingly write her off because of it.

Is THAT what the bolded part means? Thanks for explaining it buddy.

I wonder which came first...her finding her faith or becoming attracted to women??

Please don't tell me you're going do discredit her based on her sexual preference. Tell me she's a liar, and prove it like Snow, but don't be petty.

Jason,

I read enough of the review's from people who posted them at Amazon to form my opinion of her. Many people think they have 'reason' to try and discredit the church once they go against it's teachings.

[Jason]

I read enough of the review's from people who posted them at Amazon to form my opinion of her. Many of people think they have 'reason' to try and discredit the church once they go against it's teachings.

So that's a reason I can live with. But bolding her lesbianism as if it's proof enough to disbelieve her is disgusting. That's just low. Not something I would expect from you.

[StrawberryFields]

<div class='quotemain'>

I read enough of the review's from people who posted them at Amazon to form my opinion of her. Many of people think they have 'reason' to try and discredit the church once they go against it's teachings.

So that's a reason I can live with. But bolding her lesbianism as if it's proof enough to disbelieve her is disgusting. That's just low. Not something I would expect from you.

WELL OK THEN!!

[Snow]

So that's a reason I can live with. But bolding her lesbianism as if it's proof enough to disbelieve her is disgusting. That's just low. Not something I would expect from you.

Well, there is a point. Her book is autobiographical. She goes into, in dept, her father's alledged sexual life (not that I believe her) but neglects to mention that 1. She is a lesbian. 2. Her ex-husband is gay. That's a pretty big authobiographical detail to leave out. Obviously she knows that it would cast a shadow on her credilitiy, rightly or wrongly but leaving it out certainly does.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

My dad's parents had Reid Nibley (Hugh's brother) to their house in Bremerton one night for a visit. For anyone who doesn't know, Reid is a virtuoso on the piano! I was unable to attend, but my parents told me that among the piano playing and talking, the subject of Martha came up. Reid said their family is sad about the accusations which they know to be wrong. After reading comments from her brother-in-law (who I think Snow already referenced) I find no reason to believe the she was abused or molested or anything related thereto.

[Jason]

I think it's important to realize that even if Hugh Nibley were a child molestor, that still doesn't negate his work.

[Fiannan]

Gotta disagree with you Jason -- one has to investigate motives of writers as an aspect of source criticism (one of the foundations of analysis). If someone writes an article about intelligence being higher in whites than in blacks, and you find out that beyond his PhD in neuropsychology he is a grand wizard in the KKK, would you trust his work is objective?

[MBASS]

Didnt realize this would stir such a debate!!!! I am twisted like Snow and like reading others points of view, its almost reaffirming to me in a weird way! Anyhoo.....Maybe Ill pick it up and just give it a read. It would be great FICTION anyhow! Another author on Oprah who makes it all up! Like the prison guy whats his name?

[Fiannan]

Seems ironic doesn't it? If you investigate the guests on Jerry Springer they are pretty much legit.

[prisonchaplain]

Two quick thoughts--one goes each way (oh nuetral objective me!):

1. Anyone who leaves a religion that condemns homosexual activity, and it turns out that they have embraced the practice, would, on the face of it, have an ax to grind.

2. The terrible thing about molestation charges is that the stink never totally leaves. If the charges are true, and we dismiss them out of hand, we're wrong. On the other hand, if they are lies, and we harbor misgivings against the accused, we're wrong.

The only "fair" thing to do is ignore the charges, and base our evaluations of the accuser and accused on matters we can know.

[Dr T]

Hey Fiannan,

He wouldn't have to be a neuropsych to evaluate the data. I hear what you are getting at and I think "what if Michael Jordan was a child molester? Would I say his basketball prowess is bunk?"