This Question is Wrecking my Faith.

[mightynancy]

I changed my prayers to "Please get both of those children to somewhere they will be safe" Within days of changing my prayer to include both children and verbally accepting that I might not be the best place for the children, my son got a call from DCFS.

So God will, on purpose, leave children in a dangerous situation until one individual learns to pray right?

She prayed for him to live, over and over again, and his condition deteriorated. She finally submitted herself to the will of God, she gave up hope that he would live. She accepted losing him, the hardest thing any mother would ever have to do, and she did it. She let go of him.

And that is when he was miraculously healed.

It is ancient history today. She shared this in testimony because she felt another needed to hear it. We ask and hope, but then we have to learn to submit, to let go of everything, to trust God, and let His will be done – however hard letting go is. When we can let go, and follow our Father in Heaven, miracles occur.

What's the lesson for her/us when she learns to let go, and the child dies?

My belief is that prayer changes the one doing the praying, but it doesn't necessarily change circumstances. The skeptic in me believes that "if it's God's will" and "with sufficient faith" are great escape clauses. If you pray for something that doesn't happen, either God doesn't want that for you, or you're just asking wrong.

The danger in faith-promoting miracle narratives is that they leave those who don't receive a miracle frustrated, confused, and feeling rejected by God. Maybe they're just doing it wrong.

Edited July 14, 2011 by mightynancy

[unixknight]

My belief is that prayer changes the one doing the praying, but it doesn't necessarily change circumstances. The skeptic in me believes that "if it's God's will" and "with sufficient faith" are great escape clauses. If you pray for something that doesn't happen, either God doesn't want that for you, or you're just asking wrong.

The danger in faith-promoting miracle narratives is that they leave those who don't receive a miracle frustrated, confused, and feeling rejected by God. Maybe they're just doing it wrong.

^This right here sums it up way better than how I put it.

[applepansy]

This is exactly my point... If the prayer is for that comfort (not to remove the source of the stress, as I said) how would it fit into the earlier discussion?

I know you said maybe going through that period of suffering can increase one's ability to cope, but what about when it has the opposite effect? What happens when someone is suffering from panic attacks? Those don't help one cope at all. If anything, they damage a person's coping mechanisms. That being the case, if that person kneels down in prayer and asks God to give them comfort to get through, then should they or should they not rightly expect a result?

Of course they should expect a result, but it won't be in their time frame. It will be in the Lord's time frame.

We are not the only ones who need to learn from our personal adversity. Very often our adversity is a test or lesson for those around us, particularly family.

[applepansy]

So God will, on purpose, leave children in a dangerous situation until one individual learns to pray right?

What's the lesson for her/us when she learns to let go, and the child dies?

Please reread the post you responded to. I specifically said that God will not infringe on agency and very often somebody else has to make their decision before the blessings or answers to pray happen.

My belief is that prayer changes the one doing the praying, but it doesn't necessarily change circumstances. The skeptic in me believes that "if it's God's will" and "with sufficient faith" are great escape clauses. If you pray for something that doesn't happen, either God doesn't want that for you, or you're just asking wrong.

I agree. Prayer changes us. Also being willing to let go and let God changes us. My example showed that I was asking for the wrong thing.

The danger in faith-promoting miracle narratives is that they leave those who don't receive a miracle frustrated, confused, and feeling rejected by God. Maybe they're just doing it wrong.

The people who have lived through these faith promoting stories at one time felt exactly how unixknight has expressed. I know I did in the situation with my grandson and his sister.

Edited July 14, 2011 by applepansy

[mightynancy]

My reading comprehension is fine, thanks.

If God got DCFS to intervene (only after Grandma got her attitude right, natch) God would be infringing on the unfit mother's agency. Which makes that explanation problematic.

This makes it sound like God is holding up a stick of candy and singing, "Say pleeeease!" Also problematic (and irreverent, sorry!).

I do believe in the transformative power of prayer - but I think those transformations are internal and not circumstantial.

[mightynancy]

The people who have lived through these faith promoting stories at one time felt exactly how unixknight has expressed. I know I did in the situation with my grandson and his sister.

I'm sure you mean well, but that's really patronizing.

[unixknight]

Of course they should expect a result, but it won't be in their time frame. It will be in the Lord's time frame.

We are not the only ones who need to learn from our personal adversity. Very often our adversity is a test or lesson for those around us, particularly family.

I understand what you're saying, but that can be interpreted as the same sort of escape clause as "if it's God's will" and "with sufficient faith", as mightynancy mentioned.

I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to impose a timetable on the Lord, or to come off as impatient, but the example I picked was meant to illustrate the sorts of issues that are causing me this conflict.

If someone is having a panic attack, and prays to Heavenly Father for relief only to feel no better even though sometimes prayer itself is a very calming thing, then there has got to be a reconcilable reason why. Saying things like "God simply didn't will it" or "that person's faith wasn't strong enough" or "well, maybe He just hasn't responded YET" may well be true but we have no way of knowing if ANY of those are the reason.

We are assured, both in Scripture and in things said and written by the Prophets, that Heavenly Father loves us, will answer our prayers, and seeks to comfort us. I believe all of those things, and yet am unable to reconcile this fully. Some of the posts from this thread have helped a great deal but I'm not quite there yet because I still feel as if (and folks, please forgive me for not finding a better way to phrase this) people are making excuses for an apparent lack of response to prayer even when we are assured by the Word of God that there will be an answer!

To illustrate another way:

"Heavenly Father, please help me to overcome this moment of stress and worry. I know there's nothing wrong in my life that I cannot handle with the strength and guidance I receive from you, so please, help me, please let me be assured."

When nothing happens:

"It simply isn't God's will." Doesn't work. We are assured that prayer will be answered in SOME way even if it isn't what we were requesting. Mind you, I'm not fully convinced that even that doesn't conflict with Mark 11:24.

"That person'ts faith wasn't strong enough." Is circular logic. It says, basically, "God will answer your prayer if you have faith, therefore, if you don't get your prayer answered then it's because you must not have had enough faith." Doesn't work. Luke 17:6 tells us that even a tiny amount of faith is sufficient. (I know this was addressed another way earlier, and that was a great way to look at this passage, but I think it still applies here as well.)

"Maybe He just hasn't responded YET." Nope. Panic attacks don't last very long. Or am I to conclude that if it goes another 15 minutes after the prayer that it must have been a result of the prayer? Causality has not been established.

"The prayer was answered, but the person may not have realized how." I reject that notion out of hand. In this example, the prayer is very simple. Either the person praying is comforted or they are not. I'll grant that there are many much more complex examples where a prayer is indeed answered in an unexpected way, but this isn't one of them. Besides, if a prayer is answered in a way that's so subtle as to be unrecognizable, then what's the point?

I know this post may come across as being more combative than I mean for it to but I don't know that I can phrase what I'm thinking more gently and still be as clear. Please bear with me.

[applepansy]

I'm sure you mean well, but that's really patronizing.

You can choose to offended if you'd like. :)

[applepansy]

I understand what you're saying, but that can be interpreted as the same sort of escape clause as "if it's God's will" and "with sufficient faith", as mightynancy mentioned.

I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to impose a timetable on the Lord, or to come off as impatient, but the example I picked was meant to illustrate the sorts of issues that are causing me this conflict.

If someone is having a panic attack, and prays to Heavenly Father for relief only to feel no better even though sometimes prayer itself is a very calming thing, then there has got to be a reconcilable reason why. Saying things like "God simply didn't will it" or "that person's faith wasn't strong enough" or "well, maybe He just hasn't responded YET" may well be true but we have no way of knowing if ANY of those are the reason.

We are assured, both in Scripture and in things said and written by the Prophets, that Heavenly Father loves us, will answer our prayers, and seeks to comfort us. I believe all of those things, and yet am unable to reconcile this fully. Some of the posts from this thread have helped a great deal but I'm not quite there yet because I still feel as if (and folks, please forgive me for not finding a better way to phrase this) people are making excuses for an apparent lack of response to prayer even when we are assured by the Word of God that there will be an answer!

To illustrate another way:

"Heavenly Father, please help me to overcome this moment of stress and worry. I know there's nothing wrong in my life that I cannot handle with the strength and guidance I receive from you, so please, help me, please let me be assured."

When nothing happens:

"It simply isn't God's will." Doesn't work. We are assured that prayer will be answered in SOME way even if it isn't what we were requesting. Mind you, I'm not fully convinced that even that doesn't conflict with Mark 11:24.

"That person'ts faith wasn't strong enough." Is circular logic. It says, basically, "God will answer your prayer if you have faith, therefore, if you don't get your prayer answered then it's because you must not have had enough faith." Doesn't work. Luke 17:6 tells us that even a tiny amount of faith is sufficient. (I know this was addressed another way earlier, and that was a great way to look at this passage, but I think it still applies here as well.)

"Maybe He just hasn't responded YET." Nope. Panic attacks don't last very long. Or am I to conclude that if it goes another 15 minutes after the prayer that it must have been a result of the prayer? Causality has not been established.

"The prayer was answered, but the person may not have realized how." I reject that notion out of hand. In this example, the prayer is very simple. Either the person praying is comforted or they are not. I'll grant that there are many much more complex examples where a prayer is indeed answered in an unexpected way, but this isn't one of them. Besides, if a prayer is answered in a way that's so subtle as to be unrecognizable, then what's the point?

I know this post may come across as being more combative than I mean for it to but I don't know that I can phrase what I'm thinking more gently and still be as clear. Please bear with me.

You're not coming across as combative. I however, have nothing more to offer you. I've lived through the doubt and found my answer to your question. All I can do is share my experience.

I sincerely hope you find your answer.

Best Wishes

[applepansy]

I do believe in the transformative power of prayer - but I think those transformations are internal and not circumstantial.

I've seen too much to agree.

[unixknight]

You're not coming across as combative. I however, have nothing more to offer you. I've lived through the doubt and found my answer to your question. All I can do is share my experience.

I sincerely hope you find your answer.

Best Wishes

Thanks for your insights. :)

[Suzie]

My reading comprehension is fine, thanks.

If God got DCFS to intervene (only after Grandma got her attitude right, natch) God would be infringing on the unfit mother's agency. Which makes that explanation problematic.

This makes it sound like God is holding up a stick of candy and singing, "Say pleeeease!" Also problematic (and irreverent, sorry!).

I do believe in the transformative power of prayer - but I think those transformations are internal and not circumstantial.

An atheist friend of mine likes to say: "When God answers prayers, they say God is almighty and all powerful and when he doesn't, they say he works in mysterious ways" or it's not his time". I laughed. I know exactly how it sounds. lol

[Seminarysnoozer]

I understand what you're saying, but that can be interpreted as the same sort of escape clause as "if it's God's will" and "with sufficient faith", as mightynancy mentioned.

I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to impose a timetable on the Lord, or to come off as impatient, but the example I picked was meant to illustrate the sorts of issues that are causing me this conflict.

If someone is having a panic attack, and prays to Heavenly Father for relief only to feel no better even though sometimes prayer itself is a very calming thing, then there has got to be a reconcilable reason why. Saying things like "God simply didn't will it" or "that person's faith wasn't strong enough" or "well, maybe He just hasn't responded YET" may well be true but we have no way of knowing if ANY of those are the reason.

We are assured, both in Scripture and in things said and written by the Prophets, that Heavenly Father loves us, will answer our prayers, and seeks to comfort us. I believe all of those things, and yet am unable to reconcile this fully. Some of the posts from this thread have helped a great deal but I'm not quite there yet because I still feel as if (and folks, please forgive me for not finding a better way to phrase this) people are making excuses for an apparent lack of response to prayer even when we are assured by the Word of God that there will be an answer!

To illustrate another way:

"Heavenly Father, please help me to overcome this moment of stress and worry. I know there's nothing wrong in my life that I cannot handle with the strength and guidance I receive from you, so please, help me, please let me be assured."

When nothing happens:

"It simply isn't God's will." Doesn't work. We are assured that prayer will be answered in SOME way even if it isn't what we were requesting. Mind you, I'm not fully convinced that even that doesn't conflict with Mark 11:24.

"That person'ts faith wasn't strong enough." Is circular logic. It says, basically, "God will answer your prayer if you have faith, therefore, if you don't get your prayer answered then it's because you must not have had enough faith." Doesn't work. Luke 17:6 tells us that even a tiny amount of faith is sufficient. (I know this was addressed another way earlier, and that was a great way to look at this passage, but I think it still applies here as well.)

"Maybe He just hasn't responded YET." Nope. Panic attacks don't last very long. Or am I to conclude that if it goes another 15 minutes after the prayer that it must have been a result of the prayer? Causality has not been established.

"The prayer was answered, but the person may not have realized how." I reject that notion out of hand. In this example, the prayer is very simple. Either the person praying is comforted or they are not. I'll grant that there are many much more complex examples where a prayer is indeed answered in an unexpected way, but this isn't one of them. Besides, if a prayer is answered in a way that's so subtle as to be unrecognizable, then what's the point?

I know this post may come across as being more combative than I mean for it to but I don't know that I can phrase what I'm thinking more gently and still be as clear. Please bear with me.

I think you have to come at this knowing well that one of the opportunities we have in this life is to develop faith. Faith is not something known.

If I am in the middle of a college final exam and yell out "I don't know the answer, please just give me the answer!" and then the teachers aid just says, "shhh", I realize the teachers aid can't give me the answer .... its a test!

How good is a faith promoting experience if the answer is given? ... not very faith promoting at all. The only way it can remain a faith promoting experience is by not receiving the answer, at least in full.

And, sometimes even receiving the answer is only damming and not helpful, like all those that witnessed Jesus raise Lazerus and yet they still wanted to kill him. If one is not ready to receive an answer and doesn't take advantage of that information or what is given then it is damming in nature. Where much is given much is required.

Also have faith in the idea that God will never give you a challenge that allows for a form of success that He wants you to have. It may not be in the way you think is "successful" but there is a way to be successful in His eyes in one form or another and that may just simply be to endure without knowing why.

[applepansy]

My reading comprehension is fine, thanks.

If God got DCFS to intervene (only after Grandma got her attitude right, natch) God would be infringing on the unfit mother's agency. Which makes that explanation problematic.

This makes it sound like God is holding up a stick of candy and singing, "Say pleeeease!" Also problematic (and irreverent, sorry!).

I do believe in the transformative power of prayer - but I think those transformations are internal and not circumstantial.

I'm sure you mean well, but that's really patronizing.

I had to think about the right way to respond to your accusation.

I have never felt the arrogance or pride that your response implies. The definition of patronize is "Treat with an apparent kindness that betrays a feeling of superiority". Since I don't feel superior your assumption and accusation is false.

Nothing happens in a bubble. There were many praying for these children. There were many DCFS case workers involved. I was surprised at how many were involved.

The story about these children and there mother is too long to post here. I'd need to write a book and I have no desire to do so. There have been too many miracles directly related to prayer to ignore. These miracles were not just something I noticed. Even the people involved who were not religious noticed uncanny coincidences and voiced their surprise. When you put 20+ case workers, social workers and guardian ad litems in a court room and they all react with "that was and amazing coincidencen/miracle" its not something those with faith ignore.

There is another aspect of an answered prayer that hasn't been brought up. The influence of the Holy Ghost. When something is happening as a result of your prayer the Holy Ghost gives that witness. With gratefulness and humility I will say I have felt that assurance.

Be as skeptical as you please. I know I have seen the hand of God in the lives of these children. I know prayers work. What is truly amazing is the more I acknowledge the hand of God in my life the more I feel and experience the miracles that happen as a result of prayer. I am humbled and grateful to have had prayers answered.

The following scripture to mind:

Ether 12:6

And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith.

[LittleWyvern]

If someone is having a panic attack, and prays to Heavenly Father for relief only to feel no better even though sometimes prayer itself is a very calming thing, then there has got to be a reconcilable reason why. Saying things like "God simply didn't will it" or "that person's faith wasn't strong enough" or "well, maybe He just hasn't responded YET" may well be true but we have no way of knowing if ANY of those are the reason.

The thing about prayer is, as I mentioned before, a sort of correspondence between God and man. Then, since one of the goals of prayer are to individually find that connection, the only person that can ever have any idea of whether or not the prayer was answered is the one that prays. You're right in the sense that we have no way of knowing the reason behind what the person that had a panic attack perceives as an unanswered prayer. The only person that can possibly know is that person, who may receive an answer through more prayer or scripture study (as I've found that God often answers prayers through the scriptures). Prayer really is that individual, and answers must be found on an individual journey. I think listening to other people tell you why you didn't get an answer to a prayer does more harm than good.

We are assured, both in Scripture and in things said and written by the Prophets, that Heavenly Father loves us, will answer our prayers, and seeks to comfort us. I believe all of those things, and yet am unable to reconcile this fully. Some of the posts from this thread have helped a great deal but I'm not quite there yet because I still feel as if (and folks, please forgive me for not finding a better way to phrase this) people are making excuses for an apparent lack of response to prayer even when we are assured by the Word of God that there will be an answer!

Keep in mind that Heavenly Father's love is perfect and completely unfathomable with our limited viewpoint here on earth. I often view Heavenly Father as I viewed my grandpa when I was younger: I often had no idea why he did the strange (as they were to me then) things that he did, but I recognized a deep, permeating wisdom that led me to trust that whatever he did was probably for the best in the end, even if I didn't like some of the consequences of the choices. So, the love is always there, but sometimes it isn't obvious from the surface.

There's another bit in the Bible Dictionary that I'll quote. While it may seem a bit harsh, it does say that not all prayers are guaranteed to be answered:

Christians are taught to pray in Christ’s name (John 14:13–14; 15:7, 16; 16:23–24). We pray in Christ’s name when our mind is the mind of Christ, and our wishes the wishes of Christ—when his words abide in us (John 15:7). We then ask for things it is possible for God to grant. Many prayers remain unanswered because they are not in Christ’s name at all; they in no way represent his mind, but spring out of the selfishness of man’s heart.

This does, though, present an interesting lever to use when prayers seem unanswered: come closer to Christ and study His words. This helps the correspondence effect I mentioned earlier.

I'll grant that there are many much more complex examples where a prayer is indeed answered in an unexpected way, but this isn't one of them. Besides, if a prayer is answered in a way that's so subtle as to be unrecognizable, then what's the point?

I know this post may come across as being more combative than I mean for it to but I don't know that I can phrase what I'm thinking more gently and still be as clear. Please bear with me.

There's yet another way that I like to look at prayer, and although I realize you're inundated with ways of looking at it I thought this might help. Often one of my weakness with prayer is I ask something and I have it set in my mind that the answer can only be one of two or three things. Let's call them A, B, and C. Often when I do this the answer isn't A, B, or C at all, but a completely different answer D. God does answer my prayer, but I'm so focused on A, B, and C that I completely tune out D as some crazy idea, or sometimes I simply don't hear or see D because my focus is giving me tunnel vision. This isn't without precedent: Joseph Smith did this exact thing while he was praying to know what church was true:

18My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

To me, that parenthetical remark is my favorite part of that verse because it teaches me so much about prayer. Joseph Smith never thought that "d) none of the above" would be an answer to his question. Up until his first vision, he was convinced that the true church did in fact exist on the earth, he just wanted to know what it was. To Joseph, A, B, and C were different churches, and this is what he thought God's answer was going to be. So, what I learn from this is that sometimes to receive answers to our prayers we need to eliminate any preconceived notions we have about what kind of answers we will get, and open our minds (or, make our minds take a few steps sideways) to receiving unexpected answers.

I hope you don't think I'm just making excuses for an observed lack of answers, I'm simply offering models to use to more readily recognize the answers we receive, even if the answer is "I'm not telling you the answer so you can find out for yourself." :)

[mightynancy]

Apple, sorry for calling you patronizing when you weren't. And I'm willing to amend my assertion that MOST of the power of prayer is internal and not circumstantial...miracles can happen. I have had trials in my life as well, and I don't think that God withheld my wishes because I didn't ask correctly.

In my defense, the original telling of the events linked the DCFS call to you getting your request worded properly. Drawing those things together is problematic in terms of how prayer works. I simply don't think that God dangles things just out of our reach until we say pretty please. I have had trials in my life as well, and I don't think that God withheld my wishes because I didn't ask correctly.

[hungrytrash]

God will do what is best for everyone, regardless of whether or not we pray for it. Does that mean there is no point in praying for things? No. The act of prayer in itself prepares us to receive more. Praying for something can let us receive something, and have it be for our best benefit, where if we hadn't prayed, that wouldn't be the case. Prayer is an amazing act of humility, faith, love, gratitude, and obedience. Prayer grows our character SO much. We won't always get the things we want. But a lot of times we will, and it'll be best for us if we do. We can't know the difference, but God wants us to pray for everything righteous that we need or desire. He knows what to actually give us, but prayer in itself is a blessing that we all need to utilize. If we start to think that it doesn't matter if we pray or not, "God will do the same thing anyway", it is much like a self-fulfilling prophecy. The truth is that the result WILL be different if we do pray, as opposed to if we don't. God is still doing what is best for us, but what is best for us changes as we grow through the experiences of life, and particularly, prayer.

Life is supposed to be hard. Sometimes life is right on that line of being too hard, and sometimes we mistakenly think it is past that line. Life is also supposed to be confusing. There is a mist all around us to cause us to lose our path. But we have an iron rod. If we hold onto it, the times of confusion and doubt will pass, and satisfaction, peace, and faith will resume.

We often mistakenly think we have had enough of a mortal probation. That we've experienced enough opposition, and that this "one" current problem in our life won't actually help us grow. It will just stress us out and even cause us to regress because of the problems it creates! Because of this, we cannot understand why God doesn't "help us through it". But the truth is, He does. We need to not be so blind as to not recognize it. God doesn't help us by removing all obstacles and carrying us the whole way there. Think of God like a spotter when you work out. As you get to those last reps and aren't quite strong enough to lift it back up, your spotter lends you JUST enough strength to lift it again. It sure doesn't feel like you're getting any help. Your muscles are completely dead, you're in pain, and you're out of energy. It was so hard, so painful, how could you possibly have gotten any help? If you had gotten help, you'd have been comfortable the whole time, right? But yet, somehow, when your muscles were completely dead, and you were out of energy, you managed to lift something heavier than you could lift on your own, and you came out of it stronger :). Would you have been stronger if it had been your spotter working out, not you?

Don't be so worried about whether or not your prayers are getting answered. Just pray and trust in God. God knows you and cares about you. He knows when you're doubting, or lost, or struggling, and knows just how to help you. The help isn't going to come (probably) as a glorious angel announcing the glory and reality of God and gifting you with a problem-free life. That wouldn't help you. It would stunt you. We didn't need faith in the premortal world, but we reached a point where we couldn't grow any more. If you're expecting God to lift the weights for you, stop yourself. Look for His guidance and help that is already blessing your life. The more we recognize how we are already being blessed, the more room we have to be blessed in the future. As we see the small witnesses, we start to receive bigger and bigger witnesses.

I've felt lost and confused, as though prayers weren't being answered for years. But out of those times I have grown SO much, sometimes it's hard for me to believe. The amount of faith and understanding that I have now versus then is incomparable. I know for a fact God helped me when I didn't see it.

So, to summarize:

If you feel like your prayers aren't getting answered, don't pretend you're alone in the world. Everyone has been able to relate to it at some point in their lives. And most people have gotten through it and can testify that God helped them through. It's not that our desires "just don't fit into God's plan", it's just that God only does what is best for us. If your prayers aren't getting answered, rejoice! Because God is doing something even better for you than if you had your prayers answered the way you expect. One of my favorite verses in all of canonized scripture is "Jesus wept." As glorious and infinitely high above us as God is, He weeps for us. He isn't laughing while we struggle. He knows our pains and they are as real to Him as they are to us. But He also knows of our future joy and the best way to bring it to pass. God very often DOES answer prayers just the way we want them. All righteous prayers are fulfilled. But not always in the exact way that we pray for them. We can pray for a promotion. We may not get the promotion, but if the reasons we prayed for that promotion are accomplished anyway, in a better way, would you complain? It is that inner motivation for specific prayers that will always be accomplished, if righteous, not the specifics. If I pray for money because I don't want to be stressed out about it anymore, but I don't receive any money, just comfort in life, enough to get by, and a higher capacity to deal with stress, my prayer was answered! And in that sense, ALL righteous prayers asked in faith ARE answered. Period. So don't expect answers to prayers suited to your specifications and then say "GUESS IT WASN'T GOD'S WILL." Look for how whatever motivated you to give that prayer is fulfilled, and say to yourself, "Guess it WAS God's will :]."

Edited July 16, 2011 by hungrytrash

[hungrytrash]

If someone is having a panic attack, and prays to Heavenly Father for relief only to feel no better even though sometimes prayer itself is a very calming thing, then there has got to be a reconcilable reason why. Saying things like "God simply didn't will it" or "that person's faith wasn't strong enough" or "well, maybe He just hasn't responded YET" may well be true but we have no way of knowing if ANY of those are the reason.

To illustrate another way:

"Heavenly Father, please help me to overcome this moment of stress and worry. I know there's nothing wrong in my life that I cannot handle with the strength and guidance I receive from you, so please, help me, please let me be assured."

When nothing happens:

"It simply isn't God's will." Doesn't work. We are assured that prayer will be answered in SOME way even if it isn't what we were requesting. Mind you, I'm not fully convinced that even that doesn't conflict with Mark 11:24.

I had written a very long and thorough response answering every point I saw, but then I decided I could summarize it with one scripture.

"Whatsoever ye ask the Father in my name it shall be given unto you, THAT IS EXPEDIENT FOR YOU;" D&C 88:64

If getting completely helped through a panic attack isn't expedient, we won't receive it. God usually helps us in small ways that are hard to recognize. He helps us just enough for us to be able to get through it. The biggest and best way He answers prayers is through helping to strengthen us, building our character, and helping us grow. In the end, what is truly expedient for us are those things. Almost any core desire at the root of a prayer can relate, at least partially, to a true desire for growth in character. If it doesn't, it probably isn't very expedient. No matter what happens to us in this life, if the desires of our prayers aren't eternal in effect, it isn't as expedient as it could be. That's not to say we shouldn't ask for temporal and temporary things such as money and things that give us comfort, or that we won't get them in answer to our prayer. It's just to say that God isn't literally bound and required to give us those kinds of things the way He is bound to give us those things we NEED, that have eternal effects.

The promise isn't that ANYTHING "righteous" that we ask for in faith will be given to us according to our exact specifications. The promise is that anything expedient for us that we ask for in faith will be given to us, according to God's exact specifications. Don't get the two confused! :]

The thing that separates those people who work miracles through faith that their prayer IS expedient, and that it will happen exactly as they prayed for it, is the Holy Ghost. Many prophets were moved on powerfully by the Holy Ghost to offer a prayer, were guided in exactly what to say, and obviously had their prayers answered. We should all be striving to have our prayers led by the Spirit as much as possible. But when we aren't getting spoon-fed the words, faith in a prayer isn't faith in the exact way something will turn out. It is faith that:

1) God CAN do what you're praying for

2) God WOULD do what you're praying for if it was expedient

3) God WILL do whatever is best for you

And finally, hope that what you prayed for was guided by the Holy Ghost, that it was expedient, and that it will come to pass. And if it doesn't, you don't need to worry about whether you didn't have enough faith, or why it wasn't God's will, because your faith already accepted that God will do what is best.

Miracles happen through faith, and couldn't happen without faith. But even the prophets couldn't just have faith that something random/cool would happen, for no reason, and have it happen. The faith to perform those specific miracles started with a different kind of faith, was guided by the promptings of the Holy Ghost, at which point faith in those specific miracles began, and at which point they accomplished them. They didn't work miracles independent of God's will through faith alone. They had faith, were guided to act according to God's will through the Holy Ghost, and through their faith were able to be tools in the hands of God to accomplish great things according to their inspired prayers. Faith doesn't bind God to submit Himself to the will of man, it allows man to submit himself to the perfect will of God. Christ is the perfect example. He performed miracle after miracle, but He clearly said He did NOTHING of Himself. Everything that He did and said was guided by the Father through the Spirit. It wasn't Christ's high favor with God convincing God to let Him do all of those miracles, it was God directing Him to do all of those miracles in the first place (though Christ would not have wanted anything that God wouldn't have been willing to provide, for everyone's best interest). So what is the strength in faith if it isn't forcing God to comply with our wishes? What makes a faithful prayer better than a normal prayer, and a normal prayer better than no prayer? There are countless answers, a couple of which I touched on in my previous post. :)

However it should be noted that that's not to say our desires have no affect on God. God's purpose is to bring about our joy. When we ask for something, it is a desire, and we would have joy in that desire's fulfillment. So when we pray for something, we can, in a sense, convince God to do something for us. A faithful prayer with great desire can move God into answering that prayer, where He wouldn't have done it without the prayer. In the case of great miracles, I'm confident that the faith to do it always came from being directed by God to do it in the first place. But some great things are brought to pass simply by the great desire of a righteous soul, and God being moved with compassion. Generally, highly righteous and faithful people are so in sync with God that they pray for things that are actually for their best interest, and God has a lot more flexibility and reason to answer their prayers the way they expect.

Edited July 16, 2011 by hungrytrash

[SkyOcean]

I too struggle with this question, I came across a passage which puts the question under a different light:

Yet, with all this strange appearance of humility and this contempt for human reason, he ventures into the boldest presumptions; he finds fault with everything; his selfishness is never satisfied; his ingratitude is never at an end. He takes on himself to direct the Almighty what to do, even in the government of the universe; he prays dictatorially; when it is sunshine, he prays for rain, and when it is rain, he prays for sunshine; he follows the same idea in everything that he prays for; for what is the amount of all his prayers but an attempt to make the Almighty change his mind, and act otherwise than he does? It is as if he were to say: Thou knowest not so well as I.

So if God is has a plan in motion, who are we to ask him to change it?

If we pray and something goes our way - how are we to know it wasn't going to happen that way the whole time?

Surely he has already gotten it right and prayer is futile?! I trust God knows what he's doing!

It kind of reminds me of the fact that after blessing the food I can still get food poisoning.

[skalenfehl]

Without reading all the replies, my contribution is simply, is it His will that you find a million bucks tomorrow? Is it His will that you find exaltation in His kingdom? I see no problem with tailoring YOUR desires to meet His will. Everything He has done is for this end. It is really very simple. It is His will that you receive a testimony. It is His will that you marry in the temple, although YOUR will who to marry. It is his will that you are honest in your dealings with your fellow man. It is YOUR will what to do for a living. All decisions you make will either bring you closer or take you farther away from Him. The questions aren't so hard to ask if you know which questions to ask.