What Is The Sabbath?

[Traveler]

I wonder about how posters on this forum keep and feel about the Sabbath. I am not interested in speculation as much as I am interested in specific personal covenants relating to the Sabbath.

1. What do you do by covenant (prior to the Sabbath) to prepare for the Sabbath?

2. According to your specific covenant and behavior - When does your Sabbath begin?

3. When does your Sabbath end?

4. Again according to covenant - How does your Sabbath differ from other days of work?

5. By covenant what are your Sabbath obligations? Must do and must not do?

6. How do you feel about your Sabbath?

The Traveler

[Dr T]

I think, as Jesus said in Mark 2:27 The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath.

"Jesus' two-fold response

a. A principle: Human need is more important than religious ritual

i. "Any application of the Sabbath Law which operates to the detriment of man is out of harmony with God's purpose" (Morgan)

b. A principle: Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath anyway!" Commentary by Stanly Morgan

I think it is the Lords day and a day for rest but that does not mean that we cannot do things.

[Traveler]

I think, as Jesus said in Mark 2:27 The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath.

"Jesus' two-fold response

a. A principle: Human need is more important than religious ritual

i. "Any application of the Sabbath Law which operates to the detriment of man is out of harmony with God's purpose" (Morgan)

b. A principle: Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath anyway!" Commentary by Stanly Morgan

I think it is the Lords day and a day for rest but that does not mean that we cannot do things.

Dr T: Thank you for your response. I was hopping for a more specific response concerning specifically what Sabbath Day means to individual religious thinkers. Does the Sabbath Day really make a difference? Is there any difference in your life because of the Sabbath Day? If so, what? And how do you know it made a difference?

Besides attending some church meetings and another day off from work - what worth is the Sabbath?

You said "a. Human need is more important than religious ritual". Okay, beyond some ritual (Sabbath worship) what is different in the Sabbath as apposed to any other day - nothing? Should there be? If so, what? If not, why do we have a Sabbath "Day"?

Do we really need a whole day for Sabbath or just a couple or few hours for some almost meaningless ritual?

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

I wonder about how posters on this forum keep and feel about the Sabbath. I am not interested in speculation as much as I am interested in specific personal covenants relating to the Sabbath.

1. What do you do by covenant (prior to the Sabbath) to prepare for the Sabbath?

Prior to my main day of worship I do try to get a good night's rest. Additionally, I usually have a time of special prayer with my wife the night before.

2. According to your specific covenant and behavior - When does your Sabbath begin?

And here's the key for me. It began when I committed my life to Christ. I've fully embraced Paul's admonition that we we say "all days are the same," we're okay--as long as we give them all to the Lord. It's not wrong to set aside a special day of Sabbath, but it's no longer required. A bare minimum of one day set aside weekly for corporate worship and study is needed to maintain spiritual health.

3. When does your Sabbath end?

I suppose when I receive my glorified body.

4. Again according to covenant - How does your Sabbath differ from other days of work?

I am more mindful of cultivating my relationship with God, and with helping others do likewise. In my particular role as chaplain, I dedicate the day almost exclusively to pastoral care, vs. administrative work or faciliating the programming requirements of nonChristians. As a rather subtle example, on Sundays I wear a suit and tie (much as I would in a freeworld church), but during the rest of the week I wear a clergy collar, so new inmates can readily identify me as a chaplain (vs. a counselor, unit manager, etc.)

5. By covenant what are your Sabbath obligations? Must do and must not do?

I must be in the house of God with his people, with a clear mind, ready to focus on my Master. I must not engage in anything that would distract me spiritually, or displease the one whom I serve.

6. How do you feel about your Sabbath?

I frankly wish I could have them more often. However, we are "in the world, not of it." The Sabbath is the "not of it" part. If everyday were a Sabbath Day, who would the Lost have to look to?

[Traveler]

One of the great criticism of Christianityis that we spend our whole life thinking about and preparing for the after life and die without any idea what the after life is.

I submit that your Sabbath Covenant is the prototype of your after life. If your Sabbath covenants are Celestial your after life will be Celestial. If not Celestial then your after life will follow. What you find enjoyable for Sabbath shall be your eternal reward.

I have posted a number of times that everyone that wants to live in the Celestial Kingdom will but that some when they really find out what it is will desire something else. The example of how this works is the Sabbath.

Enjoy!

The Traveler

[Dr T]

So you posit that the after life will consist of the things we enjoyed for eternity?

[Traveler]

So you posit that the after life will consist of the things we enjoyed for eternity?

Would it surprise you that some people find enjoyment in sin despite all that comes with it?

I believe people sin because they choose - perfer (enjoy) it over rightousness. Do you find this hard to understand?

The Traveler

[Dr T]

No, I do not find that hard to understand Traveler. What is your point?

[Traveler]

No, I do not find that hard to understand Traveler. What is your point?

My point is that a loving G-d will reward us in the after live with the very things we have "learned" to enjoy.

The Traveler

[Dr T]

You don't think that you are saying, "If we enjoy sin, God will let us continue in sin in heaven." Are you saying that whatever it is that we enjoy that will follow in the afterlife. We will continue to sin or worship God for example?

Thanks

[pushka]

I think what Traveler is saying, and has said before, is that whatever our actions/intentions on earth, good or bad, will be reflective of the place we will go to in the afterlife...we will be sent to a degree where those sorts of activities are appropriate to the other people there. Of course you have to believe in the 3 degrees of glory and the outer darkness theory in order to agree with Traveler on this...otherwise the options are just Heaven or Hell, if you believe in an afterlife at all.

[Traveler]

I think what Traveler is saying, and has said before, is that whatever our actions/intentions on earth, good or bad, will be reflective of the place we will go to in the afterlife...we will be sent to a degree where those sorts of activities are appropriate to the other people there. Of course you have to believe in the 3 degrees of glory and the outer darkness theory in order to agree with Traveler on this...otherwise the options are just Heaven or Hell, if you believe in an afterlife at all.

Pushka: Thank you - Sometimes I wonder if I am ever getting my ideas across. My wife tells me that my thinking process is different and that few people understand what I am trying to say. My father use to tell me that I am today (at any moment) what I have spent all of my existance becoming. No one ever ends up something different than what they make some effort (with or without the help of G-d) at some point to become.

It is kind of the concept that if you do not think you want to get where a path leads - why are you following it?

The Traveler

[pushka]

Hi Traveler,

Thanks for the thanks. I can't say that I understand all of what you say on some threads, but then I think you speak of engineering in technical terms from what I recall. However I do try my best to understand wherever possible. :)

[Dr T]

THanks Pushka and Traveler. I wondered if you were saying that but I wanted to hear it from you. You are saying that where we end us is 100% dependant on our own thoughts and actions. Is that correct?

[Traveler]

THanks Pushka and Traveler. I wondered if you were saying that but I wanted to hear it from you. You are saying that where we end us is 100% dependant on our own thoughts and actions. Is that correct?

I am not sure your terms mean what you say. For example, we would receive nothing if there had been no atonement by Jesus Christ. What he did enables everything good that we do and desire. Without the Atonement we get nothing of benefit - because of the atonement we can choose and seek after whatever we want - the atonement was done unconditionally and enables all mankind (without exception) to seek out what ever they will according to their desires.

The Traveler

[Dr T]

Hi Traveler,

You said,

Without the Atonement we get nothing of benefit - because of the atonement we can choose and seek after whatever we want -the atonement was done unconditionally and enables all mankind (without exception) to seek out what ever they will according to their desires.

Please explain what you mean by the atonement. Although there are consequences, tt seems to me that everyone on Earth is able to seek out whatever their desires dictate. How is this different from what you are talking about?

[Traveler]

Hi Traveler,

You said,

Without the Atonement we get nothing of benefit - because of the atonement we can choose and seek after whatever we want -the atonement was done unconditionally and enables all mankind (without exception) to seek out what ever they will according to their desires.

Please explain what you mean by the atonement. Although there are consequences, tt seems to me that everyone on Earth is able to seek out whatever their desires dictate. How is this different from what you are talking about?

The example in scripture is the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This represents the ability to seek good or evil. The problem is that this ability also brings about death. This means that seeking "everlasting life" is not possible - which means that only evil could be rewarded. Seeking for good would be worthless because man being fallen could not receieve any blessing of The Father. Remember that Jesus said that non is good except the Father - therefore being fallen man was cut off from anything good. It may seem that man could experience good but may would die and be slave to the chains of Hell which is the meaning of death.

Because of the atonement of Jesus Christ (the payment for all sin) the fall of Adam has no effect and though we die we will live again to live everlastingly as we have choosen between good and evil - a true choice made out of knowledge through experience and knowing the difference between good and evil.

The Traveler

[Dr T]

Hello Traveler,

Choosing good in what way? Choosing to believe that He saved us?

Thanks

[Traveler]

Hello Traveler,

Choosing good in what way? Choosing to believe that He saved us?

Thanks

That is one that I agree is good. Since you suggested one may I suggest some more?

How about:

Loving your neighbor.

Doing good to those that despise you

Forgiving others.

Going the 2nd mile (few know what this really means)

Honoring your father and mother

Having Charity

Keeping the Sabbath (by covenant)

Showing kindness when no one expects kindness.

Living by G-d's commandments with joy.

Being the servant of all

Being a peace maker

Being meek and humble

Paying Tithing (as a covenant)

Morning with those the morn.

Assist the needy

Concern and sacrifice for children

Treat the L-rd's name with respect

Pray often

Pray for those that despitefully use you

Seek the Wisdom of G-d

Avoid evil

and marry according the G-d's blessing

I can think of lots more - Did your question indicate that you may have confusion discerning good things?

The Traveler

[Dr T]

No, I wasn't sure if it was "the good" of "falling before God in respect for His greatness and our depravity" or acts of "good behavior."

[Traveler]

No, I wasn't sure if it was "the good" of "falling before God in respect for His greatness and our depravity" or acts of "good behavior."

It is my impression that G-d would rather that we show our love and respect for him by joyfully obeying his commandments than to fall before him for every moment of all the rest of eternity.

The Traveler

[Dr T]

Hi Traveler,

I don't think it's one or the other. Scripture, throughout, tells us to obey AND worship. I think the combination of the two pleases Him.