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Guest Monica

Divine Retribution?

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Guest Monica

Anyone keeping up with the news lately on the conflict in Lebanon sees images similar to those of Ground Zero at the World Trade Center. Lebanese now complain that the world has turned a blind eye to their suffering.

Is this divine retribution or are they just reaping what they sowed?

Reaction to 9/11 attacks

"On the streets, however, things were quite different. Hundreds openly celebrated in Nablus, on the West Bank, in Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon, and in East Jerusalem. Candy was handed out, shots of victory were fired in the air. "

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/010924fa_FACT

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No its grown men with powerful toys that will some day beheld accountable for their sins and the innocent lives of those who die so they can kill each other and call it a holy war and God is on their side. Please……..

God walked away from those people along time ago.

There are thousands of Canadians visiting family and friends trapped in Lebanon trying desperately to get out. I don’t see Israel cutting trapped Canadians and others a brake do you?

This is like using a gun to kill flies. You cannot tell me that Israel cannot find a better salutation then booming the crap out of innocent civilians. They know who these people are and were they are, you can’t tell me there is not a better way then this?

God has no use for behavior like this.

Divine Retribution can be seen in the Tsunami’s and were they hit more then man killing man.

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Divine Retribution can be seen in the Tsunami’s and were they hit more then man killing man.

Hit more than man killing man? Not sure what you mean by this part of your statement.

So you think God made the tsunami happen in order to punish people?

This is the problem I have with some peoples' interpretation of God. You keep wanted to call him Father, and say that He loves us all as His children. Winnie, if your child messed up really bad, would you kill her in a torturous way?

I do believe that God loves us in the same way we love our children, because we are His children. I don't believe He would torture and kill his children.

Is it really LOVE you have for God, or is it FEAR (and this question is not just for Winnie, but everyone who believes that God causes these things to happen as a punishment)?

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Good question Shan,

I hear what you are saying. You seem to think that if God kill His children. There is a lot that goes into this topic. Let's first think back to the Bible and remember that there were "killing of His children." The flood for example. When that was all done, remember the rainbow and what God said about not doing that again.

Dr. T

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Is this divine retribution or are they just reaping what they sowed?

Also known as karma. Not sure about Israel and Lebanon but -

I was watching the finale to Canada's Next Top Model last night, hosted by Tricia Helfer (like Tyra Banks but better) because she also plays No. 6 on the TV series Battlestar Galactica. :wow:

The last 2 contestants left were Andrea and Alana which I liked equally and had ever chance of winning equally. The judges had a tough decision to make and eventually chose Andrea (typical model body and emotionally immature) but the one who wanted to win the most.

After thinking about it I believe it could also have been karma playing into the judges decision because in episodes before we got to see how mean Alana could be when influenced by the meanness of other contestants.

In the end, karma can play a factor in life's path, so always play nice. ;)

M.

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Anyone keeping up with the news lately on the conflict in Lebanon sees images similar to those of Ground Zero at the World Trade Center. Lebanese now complain that the world has turned a blind eye to their suffering.

Is this divine retribution or are they just reaping what they sowed?

What does the latest John Birch Society newsletter tell you, Ari?

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“God walked away from those people along time ago”

President Hinckley defines it as HF removing his protection.

“Divine Retribution can be seen in the Tsunami’s and were they hit more then man killing man”

Again removing his protection, we all know that innocent people were killed in the Tsunami’s for those it was time to return home, for wicked they know better now don’t they? For those who are left behind it was a wakes up call.

I don’t need to remind those on the board about the sex trafficking and child slavery that happens in those lands that have suffered tsunamis.

As far as my children go if, they messed up really badly they also fall under removing his protection as well. I have seen my children / grown suffer the repercussion of their actions.

We don’t escape from it.

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I don’t need to remind those on the board about the sex trafficking and child slavery that happens in those lands that have suffered tsunamis.

I don't need to remind you that horrific things happen in places in the US... even in Mormon country. What's your point?

Is that all God's punishment? What about if a Mormon family's house burns down, or a more general Christian family's house? Is that our loving God punishing us as well?

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“God walked away from those people along time ago”

President Hinckley defines it as HF removing his protection.

So when that freak tornado hit Salt Lake City back in '99, and actually broke out the windows in the Visitors Center on Temple Square, was that Heavenly Father removing his protection?

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Hi Maureen,

Karma as is Buddhist and Hindu thought?

Thanks

My personal thoughts are more of a western interpretation. Like the law of cause and consequence or you reap what you sow, that kind of karma. :)

M.

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President Hinckley defines it as HF removing his protection.

Have any of you read Standing for Something: 10 Neglected Virtues That Will Heal Our Hearts and Homes. He specks to this very topic in the beginning of that book.

He writes about how HF did once protect the greatest country in the world (USA)

Then we as a society turned our backs on the commandments we grow up with, at lest those of us that are old enough to remember.

I can remember prayer in school and a bible reading every morning after the anthem.

We have become so politically correct we have endangered our self’s as a world leader in morals and role model for others.

In his title, “Hearts and Homes” is not just our family unit but us as a society.

I don't need to remind you that horrific things happen in places in the US... even in Mormon country. What's your point? Is that all God's punishment? What about if a Mormon family's house burns down, or a more general Christian family's house? Is that our loving God punishing us as well?

Homes burn down, innocents die how are we to judge the timing of those called to return to Heavenly Father. Or the ones he turns a blind eye too so his protection is removed for the grater good of all of us.

My husband went to Thailand before we were married he stayed in a very up scaled hotel. His room was a suit and it came with a 14 year old girl! :o

He finely had to be firm with the hotel manger that he was not interested in having a girl at his call, you get my drift. Her parents sold her to the hotel. :o

There are places in this world I truly believe God has removed his grace.

We do not know his will or the lesions that come from the loss of a loved one and so on.

There is always a victim to evil; I have learned that first hand. Could I hate my father in heaven or give him the benefit of my doubt. Moreover, place my life in his hands.

Its funny you should bring up the Freak tornado that hit Salt Lake City.

When that happened I was living in a small ward on the east cost, were years has not erased the hell fire and brimstone mind set in the saints there carried with them the very idea that this tread asked Divine Retribution. Many of the members there talked about the same tornado story as Gods divine retribution for damaging the gay bar in the same aria. I was discussed that Sunday when given the ward newsletter and there it was in print how a sister in our ward was visiting salt lake at the time of the twister and about the gay bar.

So was the braking of a few window merit the damage of a gay bar? :hmmm:

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My husband went to Thailand before we were married he stayed in a very up scaled hotel. His room was a suit and it came with a 14 year old girl! :o

A fourteen year old? That's sick. I would have demanded she be at least twenty-one! ;)

Seriously though, it's sad that their culture will put a child into slavery.

Its funny you should bring up the Freak tornado that hit Salt Lake City.

When that happened I was living in a small ward on the east cost, were years has not erased the hell fire and brimstone mind set in the saints there carried with them the very idea that this tread asked Divine Retribution. Many of the members there talked about the same tornado story as Gods divine retribution for damaging the gay bar in the same aria. I was discussed that Sunday when given the ward newsletter and there it was in print how a sister in our ward was visiting salt lake at the time of the twister and about the gay bar.

So was the braking of a few window merit the damage of a gay bar? :hmmm:

How do you know god was aiming at the bar? Maybe he was aiming at the Temple, but the bar was in the way?

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I just wrote a book on polygamy so I only have time for a few, uncharacteristically terse comments.

1) Heaven help any one of us who dares believe that a massive disaster killing thousands of innocents and destroying their homes and livlihoods, devastating families, decimating lives, happened as divine punishment for a criminal practice undertaken by the few, who, by their actions, brought mass destruction simply by committing their crime in "that part of the world". I have never heard a more despicable comment. In my life.

Perhaps WinnieG might want to talk with her Bishop about this, or maybe the General Authorities who urged us all to give as we could to aleviate what small part of the suffering we could in the wake of that "divine retribution". I'm sure they'd appreciate her broad minded and compassionate views.

2) Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the same god, the God of Abraham. So who is this one God supposed to be out to get?

3) Every US citizen needs to brush up on the history of the Israeli State, as it is called. As my Hungarian friend says:"cookie cutter countries never work", and, he should know. Israel is just that, a cookie cutter country, carved out of land populated by Arabs AND Jews (for centuries), displacing Arabs from family homes and lands and relegating these PEOPLE to refugee camps except for the ones who could, and did, have the resources to flee to places like, um, Detroit. If someone took my family home, my property,moved right in , called it theirs, and shuffled me off to Juarez to live in a tent camp, jobless, the family business gone along with the home and land, I'd be unhappy, real unhappy.

Then, when those folks who removed me from the land I legally owned, that had been in my family for generations, that provided my livlihood, and that of my family, started throwing missiles at me with "MADE IN THE USA" stamped in block letters on the side, willingly and graciously provided to them by the USA, then I wouldn't like the USA much either.

4)9-11 had nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with radical Islam, and radical Islam was born and bred out of the establishment of the State of Israel and the Israeli imperialism that followed and continues today.

5)FYI, at least 30% of the Arabs were, and are still, not Muslims, but Christians, mostly Eastern Orthodox.

The freak tornado that clipped the salt Palace was "divine retribution" for a gay bar??

Twisted, just twisted.

Sometimes I understand people who think all Mormons are narrow minded nuts.

.........Again removing his protection, we all know that innocent people were killed in the Tsunami’s for those it was time to return home, for wicked they know better now don’t they? For those who are left behind it was a wakes up call...........

I'm sick, just sick that anyone could think this way.

Sick in my heart and sick in my soul.

"We all know"

No, we don't, some of us know the meaning of compassion.

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Idacat, I agree with you. I am most upset by the posts that indicate that it was God's punishment for the evil in those places where natural distasters occurred, that so many people died, and that it is just unfortunate that the 'good' people were taken along with the 'bad'.

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Ok you miss the point, If God removes his protection. And let the chips fall were they may and people bring on the consequences of their actions then that’s wrong? Bad God Bad Bad God. :ph34r:

You don’t see that ruining the ozone layer and burning up fossil fuel till our world is so sick is not bringing on the consequences of those actions.

So the world throws up and sends a tsunami to wash away the acts of others and brings home those innocent is also bad.

Did you read President Hinckley’s book? talk about a wake- up call. First chaper find it read it.

I know I do not know the thoughts of my father in heaven about every thing but I always see the humor in the bummer sticker that says Jesus is returning and his P….ed.

Just because he sent us a rainbow once does not mean he can not turn his back and let the rain fall were it may. whats that called Oh Yah Tuff love.

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My husband went to Thailand before we were married he stayed in a very up scaled hotel. His room was a suit and it came with a 14 year old girl!

He finely had to be firm with the hotel manger that he was not interested in having a girl at his call, you get my drift. Her parents sold her to the hotel.

There are places in this world I truly believe God has removed his grace.

You truly think that in that case God would just leave the premises and write off that entire area? Doesn't sound like a loving, caring God to me. That means He doesn't really care about the innocent girls who are being exploited. My belief is that He would concentrate even more on that area and try to help His children who are being treated that way.

So those girls are just left to fend for themselves, Winnie, without God's grace? But they really need Him. What did they do wrong?

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Hi Winnie G,

I have read that book. I think we got different things out of it. Jason asks a good questions about this. What of the evil that is happening to good people?

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What of the evil that is happening to good people?

I lived though that and my son asked the same questions.

We cannot know all things in the greater porpoise are, and then you mix up free will and then there is always a victim in the mix.

We could wish and even ask for HF intervention but that does not always happen.

In my sons case it was the police arrival (HF intervention), that saved him. I thought about this a lot. But then the years have passed and I seen what the damage has done and I know your going to jump on me for this but if my son had died by the hands of the monster who took him, he would have been at peace not tormented by the memories.

You see things as what you like to do, jump in a save them, not knowing the long term affects of the damage. Our prayers were answered and our son returned to us but our son has never been the same. I would have given anything to have him back, back then but Oh what I would not give for my son to have peace.

So if HF removes his protection and innocents die who are we to say why?

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Ditto Shantress and amen Dr. T.

I see NO connection between decimating the shoreline of more than one island nation and a couple of continents to bring wreak "divine retribution" on a very few involved in a despicable criminal activity and the consequences we SHOULD ALL bear for our contributions to destroying the ozone layer and otherwise raping our planet.

Perhaps God should wash away New Jersey, along with millions of innocent population just to "get" the American mafia?

And, oddly enough, it is the exception, rather than the rule, that the LDS practice energy and other resource conservation, who support movements and legislation aimed at good stewardship of our planet earth.

"We" should all definitely be listening to the Prophet in Salt Lake City, and not the President in Washington.

What of the evil that is happening to good people?

I lived though that and my son asked the same questions.

We cannot know all things in the greater porpoise are, and then you mix up free will and then there is always a victim in the mix.

We could wish and even ask for HF intervention but that does not always happen.

In my sons case it was the police arrival (HF intervention), that saved him. I thought about this a lot. But then the years have passed and I seen what the damage has done and I know your going to jump on me for this but if my son had died by the hands of the monster who took him, he would have been at peace not tormented by the memories.

You see things as what you like to do, jump in a save them, not knowing the long term affects of the damage. Our prayers were answered and our son returned to us but our son has never been the same. I would have given anything to have him back, back then but Oh what I would not give for my son to have peace.

So if HF removes his protection and innocents die who are we to say why?

Have you considered therapy? For yourself and your son, although I am not familiar with your son's story, there ARE therapies for PTSD, you know.

At the very LEAST, talk these views over with your Bishop.

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I guess I am having a hard time trying to express myself and getting the thoughts down so Ill give up.

My son is now 29 years old no-longer a childed and like most men and women you can take them to water But……………

He has had two long stays in hospital for depression due to wanting to harm himself.

My son’s life has its ruff spots and he muddles though.

As far as my bishop goes he is new and cant find his own bum and the moment with his own two hands.

I have talked to many bishops over the years and I guess I get my thoughts better in person.

The saying “you had to be there” or “you can’t walk in someone’s shoes” fits this.

We have been varying lucky we have coped well from what we are told from Bishops and a number of shrinks, social worker that has guided us along the way through the years.

One base social worker said most families are destroyed by what we have been though.

In addition, we have been asked by them how we have coped and what our secret was.

In the responses, it has been the gospel.

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I believe that there is retribution. What a man reaps he will sow as talked of in scriptures.

But let me also point out a few other things

What did Job do wrong in the sight of God? He was tested to see his strength.

When Christ came across the man to be healed everyone was wondering what the sins of the parents were that caused it. Christ rebuked them on that.

Couldn't God be testing everyone else to see how they will respond to a tragedy.

Tragedy does make people consider strongly where they are at.

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