Guest gopecon Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 I've always heard that we are essentially the same person after we die. If someone who was truly evil in this life is presented with the Gospel in the next, they are not likely to accept it. That said, we don't know whose heart changes in prison (or who was mistakenly convicted). We shouldn't get too worked up about the worthiness of people that we are doing temple work for. The Lord will sort it all out. Now as for me personally doing the work for a Hitler, Stalin, or Bin Ladin - I'd prefer to not know about the crimes/sins of the people I'm standing in for. We all make mistakes, but someone who willfully (assuming they were accountable) caused the murder/death of thousands, or millions of people is not the type of person I want to think I'm helping while in the temple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Now as for me personally doing the work for a Hitler, Stalin, or Bin Ladin - I'd prefer to not know about the crimes/sins of the people I'm standing in for.Review D&C 76. Murderers do not inherit the Celestial Kingdom. If you see any of these people there, they will not be murderers or terrorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Review D&C 76. Murderers do not inherit the Celestial Kingdom. If you see any of these people there, they will not be murderers or terrorists.Well, then I guess Nephi is not going to the Celestial Kingdom, because he murdered an unarmed, unconscious man... Anyway, is baptism for the dead only for those who go to the Celestial Kingdom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Well, then I guess Nephi is not going to the Celestial Kingdom, because he murdered an unarmed, unconscious man... I should probably clarify. You're walking down the street with Moses and when you turn the corner and see Sam Jones shoot his butler in the face. Just then, a really large piano falls on him and he dies. Moses turns to you and says "What this man just did was a sin. He knew better; he is a murderer." You live out your life to the end of your days, and when you get resurrected, there's Sam Jones in the Celestial Kingdom!What is did was a sin. There's no question of that. Moses, speaking with his prophetic authority, told you this was the case. Before he entered the Kingdom, he had to repent an become clean. He had to transform from a murderer to someone worthy of that Kingdom. It's like what my great-aunt would tell people when they asked her why she sealed herself to her abusive dead husband. "If he's in heaven, then he's finally the man I wanted when I married him; if he's in hell, then it don't mean a thing anyway."Anyway, is baptism for the dead only for those who go to the Celestial Kingdom?Semi-officially (I can think of some McConkie quotes), baptism is the gate to the Celestial Kingdom. We do the work for everyone, but it is only efficacious for those who are headed there. Just between you and me though, I ponder often as to whether it's just for the CK or not.Remember, this is just between you and me, so if I see reference to this thought I'll assume you violated my trust and I will humiliate you so bad you will wish you were born a poodle!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnn727 Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 If I understand it correctly, there is no baptizing anyone who has murdered in this life. That is not quite true. But the Mission President (or higher) must do the interview and approve of it first.Now if you are talking specifically of someone convicted of First Degree murder, you may be right.Criminals may not be baptised until they are out of jail and off of probation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 That is not quite true. But the Mission President (or higher) must do the interview and approve of it first.Specifically, it requires the approval of the First Presidency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slamjet Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Specifically, it requires the approval of the First Presidency.Wow, they don't mess with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnn727 Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Specifically, it requires the approval of the First Presidency. Actually I was thinking of someone who had an abortion which technically is murder and the person I know had to be interviewed and approved by the Mission President. The abortion was learned of by the missionaries 2 days before her baptism. The missionaries called the M.P. who then interviewed her the night before her baptism and approved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gopecon Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 While abortion is considered to be a terrible evil, official church statements do not equate it with 1st degree murder. Anyone who has voluntarily undergone one or who has financed one (covers the male side) must be interviewed by the mission president prior to baptism. Felons have to have paid their debt to society before baptism. At that time they can fully participate in the church, with the exception that there may be certain callings they would be excluded from based on the crimes they committed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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