Is the Bible really monotheistic or what?

[apexviper13]

Exodus 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

28 Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.

From how I understand it these verses don't specify whether its false gods or simply other divine beings.

Revelation 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Corinthians 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

Psalm 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Although most claim it's monotheistic, it seems to be more along the lines of henotheism. It seems to at least recognize the existence of other divine beings but makes it clear that God the Father is the one we're to worship through His Son.

[prisonchaplain]

Judaism--which the Old Testament comes from, remains stridently monotheistic. The most basic and fundamental example is in the recitation of the schema. Shema, Hear O Israel the Lord your God is One

I believe that all major branches of Judaism--even the most liberal--embrace God's absolute onesss--so much so that they dismiss Trinitarianism as heresy. What is Judaism - Basic Judaism

The "gods" of the Old Testament are either false ones (i.e. they do not actually exist), or they are demons mascerading as gods, or they are powerful men (judges, mighty soldiers, kings, etc.).

Edited August 10, 2011 by prisonchaplain

[apexviper13]

Judaism--which the Old Testament comes from, remains stridently monotheistic. The most basic and fundamental example is in the recitation of the schema. Shema, Hear O Israel the Lord your God is One

Yea I'm aware of Judaism. As a LDS I just find it interesting with the wording of some of these verses, especially Revelation 1:6.

[apexviper13]

I believe that all major branches of Judaism--even the most liberal--embrace God's absolute onesss--so much so that they dismiss Trinitarianism as heresy. What is Judaism - Basic Judaism

The "gods" of the Old Testament are either false ones (i.e. they do not actually exist), or they are demons mascerading as gods, or they are powerful men (judges, mighty soldiers, kings, etc.).

Ok cool. But what about the one particular I mentioned in Revelation?

[prisonchaplain]

It appears that the verse means "God and Father," rather than God and God's Father. See the multitude of modern translations, which all seem to agree: Revelation 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Edited August 10, 2011 by prisonchaplain

[apexviper13]

It appears that the verse means "God and Father," rather than God and God's Father. See the multitude of modern translations, which all seem to agree: Revelation 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

In other words it's similar to the beginning of Ephesians 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

[mrmarklin]

"Although most claim it's monotheistic, it seems to be more along the lines of henotheism. It seems to at least recognize the existence of other divine beings but makes it clear that God the Father is the one we're to worship through His Son."

Of course basic Mormon beliefs track with the bible!

[apexviper13]

"Although most claim it's monotheistic, it seems to be more along the lines of henotheism. It seems to at least recognize the existence of other divine beings but makes it clear that God the Father is the one we're to worship through His Son."

Of course basic Mormon beliefs track with the bible!

Well duh. I know that. :)

[volgadon]

Judaism--which the Old Testament comes from, remains stridently monotheistic. The most basic and fundamental example is in the recitation of the schema. Shema, Hear O Israel the Lord your God is One

If the point was to proclaim a fierce monotheism, then why not pick a scripture like Isaiah 44:6-8?

The Shema actually says nothing about monotheism. It affirms that YHWH is one YHWH.

I could say that Allen is one (or a single) Allen, but that is as far as it goes.

The reason for picking the Shema is because it is a call to love and serve God completely. Have you ever read about R. Akiva? His martyrdom illustrates this very well.

I believe that all major branches of Judaism--even the most liberal--embrace God's absolute onesss--so much so that they dismiss Trinitarianism as heresy. What is Judaism - Basic Judaism

They are today, but that is as a result of philosophers such as Saadiah and Maimonides.

The "gods" of the Old Testament are either false ones (i.e. they do not actually exist), or they are demons mascerading as gods, or they are powerful men (judges, mighty soldiers, kings, etc.).

This position is untenable. The word "elim" or "elohim" refers to a divine being, and when it does refer to humans they are considered divine.

[prisonchaplain]

Here's an example of where my thinking is coming from on this: Did Jesus advocate that man could become God in John 10:34?

[volgadon]

Here's an example of where my thinking is coming from on this: Did Jesus advocate that man could become God in John 10:34?

Here are some examples of where my thinking is coming from.

Calba Savua's Orchard: Ye are Gods

Calba Savua's Orchard: Philo on Reviling Gods, or: Are Gods Really Magistrates

Calba Savua's Orchard: Who is Like Unto Thee Among the Gods

Calba Savua's Orchard: Moses vs. Moses, or Two Medieval Jews on Idolatry

Calba Savua's Orchard: Monotheistic Declarations

[Traveler]

Here's an example of where my thinking is coming from on this: Did Jesus advocate that man could become God in John 10:34?

I believe the context of your link is misleading. The reason that the Jews intended to stone Jesus is because he said he was “one” with G-d the Father (see verse 30 of John 10). The logic of the Jews was that being “one” with the Father made someone g-d.

It is important to note that Jesus did not indicate that concept of man becoming g-d is false - instead he embraced the logic and pointed out to the Jews that on occasion man does become g-d and he quoted scripture to prove it. The Jews understood this reference and what it meant - They did not say among themselves “Oh this is just g-d with a small ‘g’ - no problem, we understand now - it is all okay - you can go now”. Also note that in the argument is the notion that the Son of G-d is G-d. The argument of the Trinity is that only G-d is G-d. In fact the argument for monotheism is that there is only singular “one” G-d. If the Son is G-d and the Father is G-d then monotheism is not possible.

Let us also not forget that the ancient word for one G-d is “ehad” not “yhede”. Ehad has two grammatical uses - plural and singular. If we assume singular that it is improper and wrong to say the Son is G-d. If we assume ehad is plural then monotheism is proven false through scripture. In any or either case if the Son of G-d is also G-d a can of worms is opened up and Trinity notions become contradictory.

But instead, scripture takes this notion of one with G-d is becoming a g-d a step farther in John 17:21. Here we learn more about why G-d created man in his “image” and “likeness”. The purpose and destiny of man is to be “one” with The Father in the same manner that Jesus is “one” with the Father. So it is that if Jesus is G-d so also we become G-d with him, by him and through him.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

I am usually quick to bow out of discussions that delve in to Hebrew or Greek grammar or etymology. Sure, I can grab some reference books, and give it my best secondary-level effort. I could also draw on my two painful years of Greek study--but I learned more humility than Koine.

So, what I can offer is my broad understanding of the text and of traditional teaching. On the "gods" of the Bible, my quick check of the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia included the traditiona teaching that "gods" often meant judges, because they invoked God's law on earth. Of course, this type of commentary assumes the now dominant "strict unitary monotheism" of Judaism. On John 8, then, Traveler is largely right. The Jews could not allow that Jesus was the Son of God, because that would make him God, which they took to be blasphemy.

The Trinity doctrine is the church's effort to explain how Christians continue to consider ourselves monotheists, while embracing Christ's deity. Muslims and Jews reject this, and call us polytheists. LDS embrace the difficulty fully, and have let go of their grasp on monotheism. Instead, there is an embrace of henotheism. With that comes something common to groups with distinct teachings--a highlighting of past religious leaders (Christian and Jewish) who also taught the non-mainstream doctrine.

There is no "slam dunk" quotation or citation to use. We in the mainstream like to say, "Our views became dominant because God favored them." Others respond, "No, that was man's politics and the Devil's deception."

Who's right. I suppose each of us would look into our own mirror and proclaim, "I am." :-)

[Justice]

Yes, Traveler... Matthew 17.